Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: loefflerchuck on January 12, 2010, 07:31:38 pm
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I recently saw a post asking about Blackfoot bows. I made this one few years ago, and it's still a great shooter. The bow is chokecherry with an elk sinew backing. It measures 46" nock to nock. It has a slight double curve, and pulls 68# at 24". With a regular cedar arrow it has a cast of 154 yards. The back has a Montana rattle snake over the sinew. The red on the belly is pipe stone dust pigment. The string is 3ply sinew. It's finished off with a wrapping of brain tanned deer hide for the handle. The arrows are also Blackfoot replicas, made from dogwood shoots. (no points yet).
I am quite impressed with the durability of chokecherry. It shoots pretty hard with a sinew backing, although even with 3 layers of sinew it still follows the string a bit.
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Thanks for posting this! Pretty much all I have to work with is chokecherry, and this is inspiring to say the least! Beautiful work.
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That was me asking about the blackfoot bows, thanks for posting this fine example :)
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Nice replica bow,congratulations and thanks for posting. Kenneth
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Darn nice setup there! Enjoyed the look :).
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very nice
i dont know what style of points the blackfoot used
but if ya show me a pic with size referance,or tell me what the type is called i can find it in my new book.
maybe we could work out a trade for stave of that choke cherry? ;)
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Tim we have chokecherry here also ya know, have fun finding one straight though :o
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ya,the land owner who lets me chase ground buzzards has a hedge row of them
i found one nice straight one that was about 3" in diameter,damn hand saw broke on the second stroke
i wanted that sucker too,i was gonna make a bow for him.
i always make him something every year,just cause he lets me hunt all the time.
thought a bow from one of his hedgr row choke cherries would be cool.next year in th spring that suckers coming down
even if i gotta go beaver on it ;D
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Tim: That's wantin some wood bad!! Hope you got some good front teeth :D :D.
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Really nice, awesome bend!
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I used to use bone or the old barrel hoops from wine barrels, but now the only hoops I can find are the new galvanised ones, and that does not make too authentic an arrowhead. If you need a chokecherry stave Sailordad I got lots in this canyon
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very nice, how many layers of sinew did you use? did you induce the double curve by heating or was it more of a natural curve of the stave? that thing really bends! good job.
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Congratulations on a mighty fine bow! Jawge
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i would love a stave of choke cherry ;)
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Just out of curiosity, how much does sinew outperform rawhide as a backing? For example, there is a standard rule for determining bow length based on draw length; how is that rule modified by rawhide, and how much by sinew?
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Nice bow,man what a bend,cool. :)
Pappy
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Just out of curiosity, how much does sinew outperform rawhide as a backing? For example, there is a standard rule for determining bow length based on draw length; how is that rule modified by rawhide, and how much by sinew?
The way I understand it is that rawhide, as a backing, is little different from cloth backings, like linen, silk or denim. They help to hold the back together, but do nothing to alter the performance characteristics of the bow. Sinew is in a completely different catagory; it pulls the bow into reflex as it dries, adds draw weight, and increases the amount of bend possible for a given length bow. For a given draw weight, some of the limb thickness that had been wood, is replaced by sinew, which stretches further than any wood is capable of. The wood portion is actually thinner than it would have been in an all wood bow of the same weight, so it can bend more, without putting the belly under any more stress. In the end, you can have a very short bow, with lots of reflex, and still be able to take it to full draw without overstraining. I think your main limiting factor ends up being stacking, which can be remedied by flipping the tips. When you go as far as replacing the belly with horn, you end up with the Mongol/Turkish styles, which were often reflexed to about opposite of their full draw profiles. I seem to see quite a few sinew bows that are only about 2/3 the length that an all wood bow would need to be for a given draw length. Hope this helps, and sorry if it was long winded. Sometimes I get away from myself ;)
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Got your very authentic Primitive Bow bookmarked under January BOM. Nice to see a serious primitive bow now and then. No super glue, either.
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i would love a stave of choke cherry ;)
We have millions of chokecherry here in Western Montana and in fact in my back yard. Typically poles. Want me to send you one? It would be green and heavy.
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Thanks Jude, it makes sense to me now. I couldn't figure out why the belly wouldn't crysal!
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That is a very nice bow... 8)
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oldbow i would appreciate that
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oldbow i would appreciate that
Tim that means ya have to quit playin with rocks :o
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oldbow i would appreciate that
Tim that means ya have to quit playin with rocks :o
well maybe after it dries out and cures for awhile. i do work on wood occasionally yet.just not like i used too.
i am a much better knapper than bowyer.
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I'll vouch for Sailordad on that I got some of his points on a trade and traded one to a friend of mine who had it made into a necklace for his wife and got some serious brownie points for it. It occours to me that someone that talented could make a bow no problem.Ron
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Thanks Jude. That is an excellent explanation. I've been experimenting with incense cedar and lots of sinew 5 and 6 layers in short bows, and my reflexed/recurved 38" bow is still drawing 25" with no signs of problems after 6 months. But 2 others with similar draws started showing signs of cryssaling. 1 I caught in time. Re tillered the bend away from it and it is fine. The other I didn't catch in time and it's retired :'(. I think with that much of an overdraw, getting a perfect tiller is just luck, but if you keep a close eye on the wood for the first sign of chryssaling, eventually you will have a long lasting bow.
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NICE ;D I love that bow. That is a real primitive beauty. Job well done.
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oldbow i would appreciate that
Tomorrow, I'll take a picture of one in my backyard and post it for you It'll probably weigh abouit 20-25 lbs. I think its about 2.5 inches in diameter and I'll plan to cut a 72" section out of it. Then, from the picture, I'll find out how much it would cost to ship it. Then you can let me know ...I accept PayPal.
Here are pictures the satin grain of chokecherry and finished bow from my area:
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I had seen some other chokecherry bows posted and like them. I knew I had some type of wild cherry trees growing on my farm but wasn't sure of what species they were. I had looked in the Audubon book, but nothing really looked right. And, under the section "cherry" it didn't list chokecherry. It wasn't until I saw this post that my little mind decided to look up "chokecherry" in the Audubon book. And wahlah, I have chokecherries everywhere. Where's my saw? :)
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Chokecherry and black cherry are close cousins, though wildly different in growth habits. I was snooping around for info on each, and decided to look up pin cherry (fire cherry) as well, thinking that it would look really nice with the bark left on, looks like a bright red birch. The info online said the wood was weak, and of no economic value, unfortunately. Anybody have any experience using it?
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oldbow i would appreciate that
This is an excellent "chokecherry pole" from my back yard. Length 80" (I'd cut it to 74"?) and 2 3/4" diameter.
Let me know if you would like it and I'll get the shipping price. Free, otherwise.
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Old Bow,
What's the specific gravity of that southern chokecherry? I just dunked a cylinder of the Manitoba CC and was shocked to calculate that 68% of the wood was below the waterline! If it's all like that, I don't know why everybody isn't using it, considering it's everywhere.
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wow,that bow looks like the real deal there..and the arrows too...i have to say that alot of people make Indian bows including me and they seem to not really have the old look...but,your bow does...great work..john
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Old Bow,
What's the specific gravity of that southern chokecherry? I just dunked a cylinder of the Manitoba CC and was shocked to calculate that 68% of the wood was below the waterline! If it's all like that, I don't know why everybody isn't using it, considering it's everywhere.
This is probably not southern chokecherry. It comes from about 150 miles south of Canada. (Latitude: 46.872)
I used to have direct reference to it for s. g. But Google brought up a s.p. of 35.82. I don't know if is exactly ours, though.
Don't let me misrepresent chokecherry. Even though it makes adequate bows, it is not in the league of hickory, ash, or osage.
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Nice looking bow. Good to see something different used once in a while.