Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: zenmonkeyman on February 13, 2010, 08:26:24 pm
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Well I got my 1st saskatoon attempt to 30" draw. Unfortunately, I came in under hunting weight, which was always in question since my stick is only 1" wide at the handle. I'm 66 1/2" N2N, 35#@30". She took over 2" of set, on top of the 1" deflex she started with. Here's some pics:
(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j191/zenmonkeyman/IMG_3748c_1.jpg)
(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j191/zenmonkeyman/IMG_3751c_1.jpg)
(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j191/zenmonkeyman/IMG_3755elipse_1_1.jpg)
Here's the part where I ask for advice. ;D
Is there a reasonable way to bring this up to hunting weight? Should I flip the tips, or am I straining this stick enough as it is? How about heat treating? Is that something I should consider? What about the dreaded piking option?
BTW, El D, thanks for all the elipses you've been drawing, it finally sunk in...
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I don't have much experience at all so don't take my advice to the bank...i would wait for some others but i have raised a bow to hunting weight by flipping small static recurves onto it...it was osage though...i don't know how service berry acts
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You could take an inch off of each tip, flip the tips a bit and maybe toast the belly and get it up in weight some. Cool looking bow as it is though.
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Yeah...what PatB said!! Hey...what Limb is the Bottom?? The one on the Left is Stiffer than the right...just an Idea..... ;)...and make sure that wne You use this Elipse for a reference...that you get the Bow as level as Possible...Take the Picture as Square with the Bow as Possible...and make sure that when you lay the Ellipse over it...that You start at the Tip of the Limb...and at the Top of the Handle area....otherwise it isn't as accurate.....just a little more information for you!!
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Thanks guys!
El D, the left limb is the bottom both of the tree and of my planned bow orientation.
Any more advice, guys? Just how short can a serviceberry bow be and still draw to 30" safely? Especially a narrow one?
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Try 1" off each end. If that works OK maybe take another off each end. That would put you at 62" and I wouldn't go any farther than that.
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Thanks Pat! Greatly appreciated!
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In addition to piking an inch of each end heat treat it. Make sure to only heat treat the belly. The heat treating will reduce set, allow the bow to pull farther, and bump up the draw weight. The fact that heat treating will allow the bow to pull farther means you can go shorter. So basically heat treat and shorten. You want to shorten the bow and measure the rate of which the draw progresses. If it starts to stack in the last inches don't go shorter. So you can experiment with that. I agree with Pat B. don't go shorter than 62. 4.5 in shorter should bump up the weight a lot in addition to heat treating. You should be able to get over 50#@30in.
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are you super tall? drawing 30?
but yeah, clamp it down flat and heat temper it, see what it can do...
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Thanks guys!
I'm not super tall radius (6' on a stretched tape), but the arms are long. Skinniest knuckle dragger you ever saw. ;)
I'm gonna do one thing at a time, here. I already clamped it straight and heat treated it. I'll hang it over the humidifier for a couple days and see what I've got. Don't know if my second step would be flipping tips or piking; hopefully heat treating will be enough. I drew it to 32", so I may get away with piking or flipping if necessary.
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30 ia a pretty long draw for sure,but I wouldn't pull it to 32 just for fun,that will do nothing but cause you more set,heat treating will add some weight for sure .Most of the time 5 or 6 if that is waht you are looking for. :)
Pappy
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if you can draw it to 32, then it's good and strong in tension...or overbuilt for a weakling little longbow like that...you could probably take 2" off each end AND heat temper it, gain 10 or 12 pounds weight, and never overstrain it.
but hanging it over the humidifier? you're just damn impatient. >:D
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Thanks guys!
Pappy, 5 or 6 is all I need for legal hunting weight. 10 would be better, of course. The irony is, with my draw, 35# will probably throw an arrow as fast as a 50# bow drawn to 25".... I overdrew it a bit just to reassure myself that it was strong enough in tension to handle these drastic measures I'm contemplating. The last time I heat treated a bow it snapped in tension. I haven't managed to turn out a shooter yet, and I'm getting a bit antsy. ;D
Radius, it is REALLY dry here. The chokecherry bow I snapped turned out to be somewhere between 2 and 5% moisture... the humidifier is a necessity.
Right now this stick is really stiff; it's picked up a lot of weight just from the tempering. I know I'm not overbuilt because it only weighs 14.4 oz and I haven't narrowed the tips to their final dimensions yet. My wife turned off the humidifier on me last night and I lost a 10th of an oz while I slept. I think I'll go looking for some rawhide to glue on the back...
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If the bow gets too strong in compression you can trap or round the belly. A slight trap to the belly will even out the forces a bit. After heat treating and piking to 62 you should be able to get a bow over 50#@30in. If it's still too weak you could flip the tips. Is the bow stacking at 32in?
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you haven't pulled out a shooter yet? that's sad to hear. If it's as dry as you say, then i guess you're on the right track with the humidifier. WTF do you live, anyway?
if you live anywhere near a hardwood supplier, i suggest you get some quartersawn white oak and make a wide limbed flat bow. Very strong. Turns out good bows. Go 1.75" wide. If you can't get quartersawn, get plain sawn 2" thick and rip an inch or 1.25" off the edge. That gives you quartersawn material. Man, i want to see you turn out a powerful bow and fast.
Maybe in a few months after i get my yew logs milled, i'll send you some. I'm planning to mill it down into laminations, between 1/8 and 3/8 thick, and also milling some hickory, elm, or ash into backing strips. I'll have more than i need. You let me know.
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Thanks for the input Jesse, you definitely give me things to think about.
Radius, it's no big deal to me not to have a shooter yet. I'm having fun and learning lots of ways not to make a bow. ;) I actually have a red oak board bow that I could work on, but it doesn't really inspire me... I have a goal of hunting next year with a bow I made myself out of materials I harvested and processed myself, and arrows with knapped points and dogwood shafts out of the ditch. So of course I'm doing my learning on saplings, which is what I can find and which is what inspires me at the moment anyways.
That said, I do keep my eyes on what the laminate boys are doing, and after I've got a couple of selfbows under my belt I'll be headed in that direction for sure. And I would Love some Yew! I may come begging yet; hopefully I can find something to trade you for it when the time comes; I can find some nice saskatoon or chokecherry for sure; when you get bored of all that yew that you tragically have to work with... :P
As for where I live, I'm in Regina. This is what it's like in the prairies, especially for those with forced-air heating. D-R-Y.
Anyways, I think I'll go skin another stave while I wait for my rawhide backing to dry out. I have a nice fat saskatoon that could be the Main Event!
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Hi Zen..This one don't look to bad.Good luck on your fat stave.Wider is better.
Thanks Leroy
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be cool to try chokecherry, saskatoon (whatever that is)...yeah, man, let's trade...just gimme a few months to get back on track
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Radius, I think you'll be pleased with saskatoon, or serviceberry as it's known elsewhere. It's quite heavy, .8 -.9 SG and tools beautifully. You might check out Gordon's
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,10536.0.html
or Keenan's
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,9894.0.html
for reference.
Leroy, thanks! I keep looking for your chokecherry bow, how's it coming?
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Hi Zen..She's coming not much time.Just finished my year-end.Got it on the long string just about ready to brace.
Thanks Leroy
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zen I have cut about 20 serviceberry trees down and all off them have had horrible barber pole twist to them >:(
I have one stave left I bandsawed it in half and roughed it out on the bandsaw, violated the grain badly but I believe with
a simple rawhide, silk or linen backing it will hold together just fine. the wood has interlocking grain like elm and appears to be tough as all hell.
I think if you reduce the length and get a little more bend out towards the tips you should be fine :)
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Leroy, good to hear! Can't wait to see it! I'm feeling pretty confident I'll be able to pull of my next chokecherry attempt; I think I know which mistakes to avoid to prevent a premature fatality.
Dana, I've read in various places that one can just buzz right down the middle of serviceberry and not worry too much about grain violation. One posting referred to serviceberry as "miracle wood" because of this ability... I know I've had zero problems with tool chatter or tear outs, so that speaks well for the strength of the grain, but it would be nice if somebody with more experience would pipe up on this point. Thanks for the encouragement and tips!
Right now I'm waiting for the rawhide back I put on to dry a bit before I start messing with it any more. I'll need to monkey with the tiller a bit more, there's a short section on the upper limb that doesn't move, and the bottom limb is stiff from 2/3rds out. Also, a bit more on both tips I agree.
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Update:
After heat-treating, backing with rawhide, and piking 3/4" from both ends (I know, I'm a chicken) I have 42# @ 30". ;D Very happy! Even have less set, only about an inch! Guess I better get busy and finish some arrows!