Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: paulc on March 22, 2010, 06:11:36 pm

Title: purpose of tip overlays?
Post by: paulc on March 22, 2010, 06:11:36 pm
I assume they are more than cosemtic??  TIA, paulc
Title: Re: purpose of tip overlays?
Post by: zenmonkeyman on March 22, 2010, 06:16:50 pm
Overlays allow you to cut a nice deep string groove across the back without cutting the bow's back.  Bows will delaminate at the tip if you cut through the back.  And that's not good.
Title: Re: purpose of tip overlays?
Post by: Grunt on March 22, 2010, 06:23:37 pm
Overlays are mandatory in boo backed bows. Without overlays the boo will split on the nock groove edges.
Title: Re: purpose of tip overlays?
Post by: Josh on March 22, 2010, 06:36:25 pm
... and since you are able to carve a groove in the back of the bow with the tip overlays, you can make your tips much narrower.  :)
Title: Re: purpose of tip overlays?
Post by: sailordad on March 22, 2010, 06:37:59 pm
Overlays are mandatory in boo backed bows. Without overlays the boo will split on the nock groove edges.

i disagree
i have a boo/ipe bow no overlays
well over 2k arrows have been shot thru it
no problems with the tips at all

imo they are just for cosmetic reasons
Title: Re: purpose of tip overlays?
Post by: HatchA on March 22, 2010, 08:37:44 pm
Overlays are mandatory in boo backed bows. Without overlays the boo will split on the nock groove edges.

i disagree
i have a boo/ipe bow no overlays
well over 2k arrows have been shot thru it
no problems with the tips at all

imo they are just for cosmetic reasons

Same here but it's 69" ttt so maybe the tension is lessened on the tips as a result?

I do plan on shortening it some day soon and putting on overlays though :D
Title: Re: purpose of tip overlays?
Post by: DanaM on March 22, 2010, 08:48:58 pm
If your using Fast Flight strings then a good hard overlay is a must as it will saw the tip off of most woods, with a traditional string such as, linen, rawhide, or sinew this may not be
the case but what the hell they look so dang good why not put them on eh :)
Title: Re: purpose of tip overlays?
Post by: Jesse on March 22, 2010, 09:25:18 pm
Overlays are mandatory in boo backed bows. Without overlays the boo will split on the nock groove edges.
I gotta disagree as well. I have done them without the overlays and they held up fine. It is a good idea to use overlays though :)
Title: Re: purpose of tip overlays?
Post by: sailordad on March 22, 2010, 09:32:04 pm
i would probably use them
if i was better at making them,and had some nicer materials to make them from
Title: Re: purpose of tip overlays?
Post by: Justin Snyder on March 22, 2010, 09:42:05 pm
I don't know if they are mandatory on all boo backed bows, but they are mandatory on mine! I have damaged tip overlays on bows while hunting. If they didn't have overlays, it would have been an explosion.
Title: Re: purpose of tip overlays?
Post by: Jesse on March 22, 2010, 10:12:34 pm
I don't know if they are mandatory on all boo backed bows, but they are mandatory on mine! I have damaged tip overlays on bows while hunting. If they didn't have overlays, it would have been an explosion.
Another good reason to use them :)
Title: Re: purpose of tip overlays?
Post by: NTD on March 22, 2010, 10:55:19 pm
I hate them.  I think they look outstanding on other people's bows but I suck at doing nocks as it is that overlays just exaggerate how much I suck.  But I definitely appreciate the benefits of them.
Title: Re: purpose of tip overlays?
Post by: recurve shooter on March 22, 2010, 11:54:26 pm
I think they look outstanding on other people's bows but I suck at doing nocks as it is that overlays just exaggerate how much I suck.  But I definitely appreciate the benefits of them.

lol same here but i try anyway.  ;D
Title: Re: purpose of tip overlays?
Post by: adb on March 23, 2010, 01:25:50 am
Overlays are mandatory in boo backed bows. Without overlays the boo will split on the nock groove edges.
No it won't!
Title: Re: purpose of tip overlays?
Post by: Grunt on March 23, 2010, 08:41:28 am
Overlays are mandatory in boo backed bows. Without overlays the boo will split on the nock groove edges.

I'm listening to you guys. I just did one boo backed bow without overlays and the boo split on the edge of the nock during tillering. I superglued it and filed a flat and used an overlay. Had no problems after that.  Maybe I need to try it again without overlays. It sure would save some time.
Title: Re: purpose of tip overlays?
Post by: Hillbilly on March 23, 2010, 08:57:07 am
I use them mainly for three reasons-they let me make much narrower tips, they protect the bow tips, and I like the way they look.
Title: Re: purpose of tip overlays?
Post by: George Tsoukalas on March 23, 2010, 10:59:02 am
I've used them on yew so the string doesn't cut the nock area. Mainly I use them to fix drying cracks. Jawge
Title: Re: purpose of tip overlays?
Post by: Greatgoogamooga on March 23, 2010, 12:24:26 pm
I hadn't thought about overlays on bamboo.  Am I correct that you need to strip off the bark and flatten the tips first?  Epoxy, or TB?

Goog
Title: Re: purpose of tip overlays?
Post by: Josh on March 23, 2010, 12:30:56 pm
I hadn't thought about overlays on bamboo.  Am I correct that you need to strip off the bark and flatten the tips first?  Epoxy, or TB?

Goog

I have used both without a failure yet... :)  ...yet  ::)
Title: Re: purpose of tip overlays?
Post by: medicinewheel on March 23, 2010, 12:38:42 pm
I use them mainly for three reasons-they let me make much narrower tips, they protect the bow tips, and I like the way they look.

Same here...

For those who need some guidance I have a build-along in the how-to section; scroll down for tip overlays!
Title: Re: purpose of tip overlays?
Post by: Justin Snyder on March 23, 2010, 01:54:13 pm
Overlays are mandatory in boo backed bows. Without overlays the boo will split on the nock groove edges.
No it won't!
Much greater chance though.
Title: Re: purpose of tip overlays?
Post by: Justin Snyder on March 23, 2010, 01:59:28 pm
I moved Franks tip overlay thread to the Archive Library section so it will be easier to find and keep track of. 
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,1729.0.html
Justin
Title: Re: purpose of tip overlays?
Post by: Far East Archer on March 23, 2010, 03:52:10 pm
Strings split the nock because groove angle is wrong or string is too thin.
You need gradual curve and enough material at top of curve closest to back.

If done this way, any wood can be used without overlay.
(though sometimes its really just problem with string, and this case nock overlay or thicker string serving is needed)
Title: Re: purpose of tip overlays?
Post by: medicinewheel on March 23, 2010, 04:33:25 pm
Thank Justin, good idea!
Title: Re: purpose of tip overlays?
Post by: DCM4 on March 23, 2010, 05:02:44 pm
I agree with the idea they let you extend the groove across the back of the bow without violating the back ring.  I not sure I agree with the idea the bow would fail otherwise, I've seen too many that didn't.  I think it's important the bow not bend excessively too far on the outer limb though, and I don't care for grooves cut across the back without an overlay.  They also let you achieve a more rounded, teardrop shape, again without violating the back ring.  I've not had trouble with fast flight strings sawing through anything, on wood selfbows as soft as yew and elm, and on boo backed bows.  I think they look good, cost nothing and if anything add a bit of insurance.  More than anything string grooves should allow the string to lay straight to the back of the bow at brace height, and have a rounded teardrop shape to spread the compression load over as much material as practical, overlay or not.
Title: Re: purpose of tip overlays?
Post by: sailordad on March 23, 2010, 07:55:02 pm
well like i said
i have one that has no overlats and never had a problem with the boo splitting

Overlays are mandatory in boo backed bows. Without overlays the boo will split on the nock groove edges.

I'm listening to you guys. I just did one boo backed bow without overlays and the boo split on the edge of the nock during tillering. I superglued it and filed a flat and used an overlay. Had no problems after that.  Maybe I need to try it again without overlays. It sure would save some time.

so it might just be how you treated the boo when you cut your nocks in
and like i said,if i was any good at them i might use them more often.
but i still think thay are not neccasary,and are for asthetic reasons
Title: Re: purpose of tip overlays?
Post by: Josh on March 23, 2010, 08:23:30 pm
I think they are more useful than just for aesthetics as you can cut a groove across the back of the bow and therefore make your tips more narrow than you can with just side nocks. Most of the tip overlays I see (including mine) have so much wood past the actual string groove I think it cancels out any added performance achieved by having narrower tips anyways.  But they do enhance the beauty of a wooden bow to me anyways.   :)   
Title: Re: purpose of tip overlays?
Post by: Eric Krewson on March 24, 2010, 10:21:45 am
Back in my early days of bow making (before I used overlays) I had a couple of bow strings slip out of the sting groove on one side while stringing. With the string in only one groove, the pressure was too much for it to hold and the bow split at the groove down the limb about 8".

Had I been more cautious this wouldn't have happened but I still ruined two bows. I have added overlays since.

I like the looks(I collect all kinds of burl wood to make them out of), the safety factor for the limb tips and the versatility of being able to make a stringing grove or starting with only the cut across the back on a strung bow to perfectly locate the correct angle for the side nocks.

Here is a picture of an unfinished nock overlay with a stringing groove visible and the way I mark the perfect string angle for my side nocks.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v181/ekrewson/stringnocklocater.jpg)
Title: Re: purpose of tip overlays?
Post by: Josh on March 24, 2010, 10:52:43 am
I really like the way you carve your string grooves Eric.  I am going to have to try that on my next bow.  My string is never perfectly straight at full brace and that way looks like a great way to remedy that.  Thanks for posting that.  ;)