Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => English Warbow => Topic started by: dmassphoto on May 11, 2010, 11:38:16 pm

Title: Robin Hood Special on History Channel
Post by: dmassphoto on May 11, 2010, 11:38:16 pm
Anybody watch the special on Robin Hood tonight on the History Channel?  I missed it, but it's going to be on again at midnight.  The host is the same hyperactive guy who did the show on the Longbow a few years ago.  If I remember correctly, he was shooting his longbow from a horse at one point, and had one made by an English bowyer with a recurve to it.  I wonder how accurate that was.  Anywho, makes me wonder how accurate this special will be.  I always enjoy the History Channel specials when historical movies come around, if only for the entertainment value.
Title: Re: Robin Hood Special on History Channel
Post by: RyanY on May 12, 2010, 09:24:50 am
I stayed up to watch it after reading this post. It started out strong talking about Robin Hood but then turned more into a history of europe type of thing. They really looked into the way society was at the time of the stories of Robin Hood so they could estimate what kind of man he was if there was a man at all. They mostly looked at Robin Hood as real through the stories but not one man. I thought it was interesting.  :)
Title: Re: Robin Hood Special on History Channel
Post by: dmassphoto on May 12, 2010, 12:01:10 pm
Compared to some of the stuff History has been putting out lately, I thought it was pretty good!  From a photographer's standpoint, some of the commentary that was shown by the British professors looked like an amateur set it up, lol.  But then I was highly impressed by the scenes of the knight on horseback.  That was really cool to watch.  As for the accuracy, it seemed they did a pretty good job.  One thing's for certain, this movie that's coming out on Friday will be much different than previous versions.


(Nothing can beat Prince of Thieves, though)  ;D
Title: Re: Robin Hood Special on History Channel
Post by: aero86 on May 12, 2010, 04:18:25 pm
oh yeah, i cant wait for the movie, and prince of thieves was the best!

its dull you twit, itll hurt more!
Title: Re: Robin Hood Special on History Channel
Post by: dmassphoto on May 12, 2010, 10:42:17 pm
oh yeah, i cant wait for the movie, and prince of thieves was the best!

its dull you twit, itll hurt more!

ha!  That movie is as quotable as Top Gun!  It's just the best :)

As for the new one with Russell Crowe, it looks like they're painting him as a true yeoman, which is a bit different than the nobility he's been portrayed as before, or the peasant.  From the interviews I've watched, it seems like Crowe has gotten really into his part, even shooting upwards to 200 arrows a day.  I'm looking forward to it.
Title: Re: Robin Hood Special on History Channel
Post by: Davepim on May 13, 2010, 05:17:53 am
oh yeah, i cant wait for the movie, and prince of thieves was the best!

its dull you twit, itll hurt more!

ha!  That movie is as quotable as Top Gun!  It's just the best :)

As for the new one with Russell Crowe, it looks like they're painting him as a true yeoman, which is a bit different than the nobility he's been portrayed as before, or the peasant.  From the interviews I've watched, it seems like Crowe has gotten really into his part, even shooting upwards to 200 arrows a day.  I'm looking forward to it.

Yes, 45-60lb longbows! ;) ;) ;) ;)
Title: Re: Robin Hood Special on History Channel
Post by: Oorlogsboog on May 13, 2010, 08:42:44 am
They should really get actors to DRAW properly though  ;D

To the EAR man!! To the EAR!!! You're not in Korea damn you!!!  >:D
Title: Re: Robin Hood Special on History Channel
Post by: dmassphoto on May 13, 2010, 10:31:40 am
Quote
Yes, 45-60lb longbows! ;) ;) ;) ;)

They also used rubber suits for armor in Gladiator.  I won't fault any actor for using lightweight bows, considering I can't even pull a 120 pounder  :D
Title: Re: Robin Hood Special on History Channel
Post by: aero86 on May 13, 2010, 10:39:08 am
i wish i were an actor and had the time to shoot 200 arrows a day..
Title: Re: Robin Hood Special on History Channel
Post by: Stonedog on May 13, 2010, 11:53:54 am
I enjoyed the special.  I think understanding the whole Robin Hood myth is contingent on understanding England history of the period.  One of my other hobbies is the study of medieval/dark age England....I have a mini-library on these subjects alone.

Now.....let's not get too picky with the archery gear and drawing technique.....after all....they are actors......I am strong as a bull.....and I don't even TRY to pull a proper warbow!  I enjoy the use of my wrist, shoulder and back muscles/joints too much!!!
 
I am seeing the movie this weekend....cannot wait!  Looks like a lot of fun!

Fun is the key word.....just enjoy it.....don't pick it apart!
Title: Re: Robin Hood Special on History Channel
Post by: Loki on May 13, 2010, 01:44:21 pm
After Gladiator and Kingdom of Heaven I wasnt expecting any historical accuracy with this movie and I was right! But wait until you hear Crowes accent  ;D .

Quote
let's not get too picky with the archery gear and drawing technique.....after all....they are actors......I am strong as a bull.....and I don't even TRY to pull a proper warbow!

You can tiller a 35lb Bow to 32", I'm sure the actors could manage that if they wanted to portray the technique correctly.Ralphs was the archery consultant like he was for Kingdom of heaven and Gladiator!  ;D.

Title: Re: Robin Hood Special on History Channel
Post by: dmassphoto on May 13, 2010, 02:03:13 pm
They were shooting in England for months.  I wonder if anyone went to the set and offered their services on how to properly shoot a warbow, knowing they would do it wrong.  This was also 12th-13th century, do we in fact know that bows were pulled back to the ear during this time, even amongst yeomen hunting or robbing in the forrest? 

I saw Orlando Bloom firing a bow in one of his movies, I think it was Troy, and he was drawing it back pretty far, but it *looked* really ugly.  The producer/directors probably thought the same. Who knows
Title: Re: Robin Hood Special on History Channel
Post by: aero86 on May 13, 2010, 03:40:16 pm
they have all sorts of longbow guys over there, you would think they would ask someone for some pointers.

if its half as good as prince of thieves we are in for a treat
Title: Re: Robin Hood Special on History Channel
Post by: Loki on May 13, 2010, 04:11:45 pm

They asked Steve Ralphs

http://www.steveralphs.com/
Title: Re: Robin Hood Special on History Channel
Post by: dmassphoto on May 13, 2010, 04:35:22 pm
Ahh, says he did the bow that was in Prince of Thieves.  Always thought that was a beautiful bow, but now it seems it was made to look like Yew.  Either way, it worked. 
Title: Re: Robin Hood Special on History Channel
Post by: Stonedog on May 13, 2010, 05:30:36 pm
Prince of Thieves is a super entertaining movie......Alan Richtman and Morgan Freeman steal the show away from Costner.....IMHO.

One thing at always makes me laugh is when you see archer running around with half drawn arrow being held back by a few fingers on the bow hand!
Title: Re: Robin Hood Special on History Channel
Post by: Ron C on May 13, 2010, 08:34:10 pm
I’ve just watched the Scott Ridley’s version of  RH I thought it a better film all-round than others I’ve seen,
although one scene in the last battle was not a great move for such a good director.

I’ve search in the London Science museum over the last few weeks and not found landing craft quite so advance as those in this film.

Over all V good  entertainment.
The next one will be better.
Title: Re: Robin Hood Special on History Channel
Post by: Davepim on May 14, 2010, 05:24:22 am
Steve Ralphs is a classic example of the sort of guy who, once his reputation is made , will end up being used by the film industry for ever, despite his bows and techniques bearing no relationship whatever to medieval archery, and this is why you will never see accurate portrayal of archery in the movies. To date I only know of three programmes where real medieval/Mary Rose replica bows were shot; the history channel's "Warriors" programme (which got torn to shreds on this very forum), the BBC's "Ghosts of the Mary Rose" and a programme on Tudor cuisine. All these programmes used English Warbow Society members, although these guys rarely, if ever, have any impact on the overall production of the programme, which is why so many other inaccuracies creep in. Bit by bit the real bows are making some headway, but I doubt that any of us will live to see this make its way into the movies.

Dave
Title: Re: Robin Hood Special on History Channel
Post by: triton on May 16, 2010, 06:21:25 am
Just started this download as a torrent http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/5557301/History.Channel.The.Real.Robin.Hood.720p.HDTV.x264-DHD
Title: Re: Robin Hood Special on History Channel
Post by: ChrisD on May 16, 2010, 07:40:44 am
Steve Ralphs is a classic example of the sort of guy who, once his reputation is made , will end up being used by the film industry for ever, despite his bows and techniques bearing no relationship whatever to medieval archery, and this is why you will never see accurate portrayal of archery in the movies. To date I only know of three programmes where real medieval/Mary Rose replica bows were shot; the history channel's "Warriors" programme (which got torn to shreds on this very forum), the BBC's "Ghosts of the Mary Rose" and a programme on Tudor cuisine. All these programmes used English Warbow Society members, although these guys rarely, if ever, have any impact on the overall production of the programme, which is why so many other inaccuracies creep in. Bit by bit the real bows are making some headway, but I doubt that any of us will live to see this make its way into the movies.

Dave

Can't really help but respond to this. The entertainment industry does ENTERTAINMENT, not history - which is why so many inaccuracies exist. There is no reason at all to infer that what Steve Ralphs does for the entertainment industry has much to do with his abilities as a bowyer or his knowledge of archery generally - they ask, he provides, and at a price and volume which suit I guess, given that they keep coming back. Not an easy thing to do methinks, but, paradoxically, more consistent with what was expected of medieval bowyers than your modern bespoke counterpart with a 3 -12 month wait.  The fact that he has managed to make his living in this way is a credit to his industry and ingenuity, he's a found a niche and hats off for doing well in it.

I owned a Steve Ralphs longbow for nearly 20 years as he used to supply Quicks. It bent into but not through the handle, drew to 32",performed consistently and only lost about 4lbs in weight - still going well so as far as I know - I gave it to a fellow clubmember who became interested in the longbow. I don't know Steve personally, but in a conversation with Chris Boyton, I was told that he knows how to make a perfectly good bow when he puts his mind to it - which is not often enough, given the prolific number of stage props he makes. Given what he charges for said stage props on e-bay, I can't see how anyone can complain there either - except perhaps people who want to charge more!

As to the EWBS members being used by the history channels etc - hats off to them too. Anything that furthers our chosen sport in a public friendly way and engenders interest is a good thing in my view.

I agree that anyone who does that sort of thing will become quickly aware though that even the 'honest' history programme makers come to the table with their own story to tell and that the participants not only have no editorial say, but also can expect to be quoted out of context as various 'takes' get turned into whatever mashup best fits the producers angle - they after all also have to sell their programme and provide entertainment. I know this because its happened to me too. Accordingly, the 'tearing to shreds' that occurs on this forum is mostly focussed at the programme and not actually at the individuals in it, even though it may not always look/feel that way to people who got involved.

C
Title: Re: Robin Hood Special on History Channel
Post by: AncientArcher76 on May 16, 2010, 12:53:01 pm
I missed it I was soexcited to try and watch it!  I think u can go to history channel online and watch it or maybe you tube!  On the movie I thought I saw a shelf on his bow...maybe Im seeing things!
Title: Re: Robin Hood Special on History Channel
Post by: Davepim on May 17, 2010, 05:20:44 am
Steve Ralphs is a classic example of the sort of guy who, once his reputation is made , will end up being used by the film industry for ever, despite his bows and techniques bearing no relationship whatever to medieval archery, and this is why you will never see accurate portrayal of archery in the movies. To date I only know of three programmes where real medieval/Mary Rose replica bows were shot; the history channel's "Warriors" programme (which got torn to shreds on this very forum), the BBC's "Ghosts of the Mary Rose" and a programme on Tudor cuisine. All these programmes used English Warbow Society members, although these guys rarely, if ever, have any impact on the overall production of the programme, which is why so many other inaccuracies creep in. Bit by bit the real bows are making some headway, but I doubt that any of us will live to see this make its way into the movies.

Dave



Can't really help but respond to this. The entertainment industry does ENTERTAINMENT, not history - which is why so many inaccuracies exist. There is no reason at all to infer that what Steve Ralphs does for the entertainment industry has much to do with his abilities as a bowyer or his knowledge of archery generally - they ask, he provides, and at a price and volume which suit I guess, given that they keep coming back. Not an easy thing to do methinks, but, paradoxically, more consistent with what was expected of medieval bowyers than your modern bespoke counterpart with a 3 -12 month wait.  The fact that he has managed to make his living in this way is a credit to his industry and ingenuity, he's a found a niche and hats off for doing well in it.

I owned a Steve Ralphs longbow for nearly 20 years as he used to supply Quicks. It bent into but not through the handle, drew to 32",performed consistently and only lost about 4lbs in weight - still going well so as far as I know - I gave it to a fellow clubmember who became interested in the longbow. I don't know Steve personally, but in a conversation with Chris Boyton, I was told that he knows how to make a perfectly good bow when he puts his mind to it - which is not often enough, given the prolific number of stage props he makes. Given what he charges for said stage props on e-bay, I can't see how anyone can complain there either - except perhaps people who want to charge more!

As to the EWBS members being used by the history channels etc - hats off to them too. Anything that furthers our chosen sport in a public friendly way and engenders interest is a good thing in my view.

I agree that anyone who does that sort of thing will become quickly aware though that even the 'honest' history programme makers come to the table with their own story to tell and that the participants not only have no editorial say, but also can expect to be quoted out of context as various 'takes' get turned into whatever mashup best fits the producers angle - they after all also have to sell their programme and provide entertainment. I know this because its happened to me too. Accordingly, the 'tearing to shreds' that occurs on this forum is mostly focussed at the programme and not actually at the individuals in it, even though it may not always look/feel that way to people who got involved.

C

I agree with you Chris. I imagine that Steve Ralphs is an extremely likeable guy, an exceptional bowyer and also a talented instructor. He also makes a GOOD living from  interacting with Holywood and some people might have felt that an attempt to build and supply bows that were more medieval in form, where applicable, would have been useful. I don't know whether he worked on the Costner film, but since it's just as easy to build a longbow that comes full-compass as a Victorian-style replica, I wonder why the bowyer employed there didn't bother. Yes, it's entertainment and as I said we will never see anything attempting realism there. As to the few programmes using decent replicas, I wish it was just the production that was torn to shreds; I recall the attacks were just a bit too personal.

Dave
Title: Re: Robin Hood Special on History Channel
Post by: PaulN/KS on May 17, 2010, 09:03:51 am
I have seen the History Channel show a couple of times now and found it interesting and informative. Looking forward to getting out to see the movie.
BTW, anyone know where a fellow can get one of those medevil style hand axes that they showed a few times...?
Title: Re: Robin Hood Special on History Channel
Post by: dmassphoto on May 17, 2010, 10:35:34 am
You mean a pole axe?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pollaxe_(polearm)

I'm sure there are many places that sell replicas if you do a search.  Too many to list here.
Title: Re: Robin Hood Special on History Channel
Post by: PaulN/KS on May 17, 2010, 11:08:19 am
No, not the polled axe but that smaller hatchet, I believe they call it a bearded axe. I looked around and did find a couple places that might have them.
Thanks...
Title: Re: Robin Hood Special on History Channel
Post by: mullet on May 17, 2010, 09:43:03 pm
 Paul, look in the trading post, below.
Title: Re: Robin Hood Special on History Channel
Post by: adb on May 17, 2010, 10:29:32 pm
I saw the Robin Hood movie this past weekend, and overall, I'd have to give it 2 thumbs up. Excellent cinematography (as to be expected from Ridley Scott), and a decent story. Not what I expected going in... it was the story about how he became an outlaw, not his life as such. Which is good, because almost everyone knows the legend of his life. Me thinks that a sequel will be coming. The costumes and sets were super... a real glimpse at 12 century life.
Title: Re: Robin Hood Special on History Channel
Post by: dmassphoto on May 17, 2010, 10:39:20 pm
I saw the Robin Hood movie this past weekend, and overall, I'd have to give it 2 thumbs up. Excellent cinematography (as to be expected from Ridley Scott), and a decent story. Not what I expected going in... it was the story about how he became an outlaw, not his life as such. Which is good, because almost everyone knows the legend of his life. Me thinks that a sequel will be coming. The costumes and sets were super... a real glimpse at 12 century life.

I thought so too.  The movie was great, it just didn't have any "WOW!" moments for me for some reason.  Those parts of the movie that you remember for years.  Regardless, it was a great movie and a nice look into 12th-13th century life.  I'd say the best part was watching the scenes of the calvary riding through Wales with banners flapping in the wind.


SPOILER ALERT


 My *only* criticisms were the "Higgins Boats" and Marion in armor, leading the "Lost boys" to battle, lol. 
Title: Re: Robin Hood Special on History Channel
Post by: bow-toxo on June 01, 2010, 08:33:03 pm
They were shooting in England for months.  I wonder if anyone went to the set and offered their services on how to properly shoot a warbow, knowing they would do it wrong.  This was also 12th-13th century, do we in fact know that bows were pulled back to the ear during this time, even amongst yeomen hunting or robbing in the forrest? 


Here is a quote from 'Robin Hood and the Potter', one of the earliest Robin Hood ballads available. in whoch Robin, ln disguise as a potter, is questioned on his ability to draw a bow to the ear.

“Now schall y wet an thou be god,
And polle het op to they nere.”
“So god me helpe,”seyde the prowde potter,
Thys ys bot ryght weke gere.”

                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                              Erik
Title: Re: Robin Hood Special on History Channel
Post by: bow-toxo on July 26, 2010, 10:01:31 pm
Anybody watch the special on Robin Hood tonight on the History Channel?  I missed it, but it's going to be on again at midnight.  The host is the same hyperactive guy who did the show on the Longbow a few years ago.  If I remember correctly, he was shooting his longbow from a horse at one point, and had one made by an English bowyer with a recurve to it.  I wonder how accurate that was.  Anywho, makes me wonder how accurate this special will be.  I always enjoy the History Channel specials when historical movies come around, if only for the entertainment value.

I finally saw "The Real Robin Hood" special. It is not clear how a made up fantasy that ignores mediaeval sources can call itself real. Robin Hood as crusader? resisting a French invasion? getting it on with a Maid Marion who was a later invention ?  Robin Hood with leather pants ?  Real ? Please. Go easy on the blow.

 A word on the hyperactive guy who is described as a mediaeval weapons expert. He stated that there is no such thing as a short bow because it would break at full draw { to the ear]. Hey Mister Expert ! A short bow, that you can see in many, many. mediaeval manuscript illustrations,  takes a short draw ! Duh.

                                                                                      Erik