Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Thwackaddict on July 06, 2010, 02:10:30 am
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I would like to thank all you guys who helped with my unending questions on this build. I got my worked down today and ended up with quite a pile of wood.Thanks Pat and hillbilly for the backing info.
62.5 ntn Maple Backed Cherry with laminate grip. aiming for 50-55#@28"
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off to a good start! can't wait to see it progress
Rob
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Thanks for the help rob.I'm anxious.Hopefully i can improve from my first one and hit my draw weight on this one.
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Lookin' good. I like your workshop ;D
Del
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Thanks Del,Its quite roomy and spacious.Not too bad if i can get a good breeze goin.
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Looking good,can't wait to see the finished product. :)
Pappy
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Thanks Pappy,jus took it off the form and gonna start gettin it roughed out and lam some handle wood on it.Post more pics tonight.
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got it worked down and handle glued up,ready to shape handle and start tillering.Got #2 in the form,waitin to dry.
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looks like the start of a bow company
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Ken I certainly hope so. I really enjoy making bows and here lately I eat Sleep and Breathe Bows!LOL
Yea i got it bad and If i have any say so in it I will make a name for myself in the bow building community.I dont want to get rich quick or try to make a killing.I want to put out a quality product for the working man and take pride in what I do!!Thanks!
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Got the handle shaped up a bit and started workin on the limbs.Should I trap the limbs or what kind of belly profile would be best for the cherry.They are 3/4" all the way right now.I cant wait to see how much string follow it takes and how much reflex i end up with.This is my first attempt at backed bow so i figure at least half of what i glued in?
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Profile and reflex pic
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Cherry will often chrysal before it takes set. Try and get every bit of the limb bending as evenly as possible, how much weight are you looking for? How long is the bow? Steve
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Beautiful Thwack!
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Badger- it is 62.5ntn and i'm shootin for 50-55#@28"
Thanks grayson
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Looking good so far.
Pappy
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Man, it looks so narrow at the thumb contour... looking very nice though! Following this build with interest.
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funny how much you think about building one after you complete one, sometimes im planning the next while building one ,pretty ballsey going that narrow through the handle hope it stays together. very good so far im interested to see some limbs bent on this one.
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:'( :'( :'(Sorry guys but I broke it!!Only had two more inches to go.she broke at 26"heres the damage.And Yes i almost cried.I'm pretty sure i got a hinge mid limb wasnt nvery noticeable till i got it to 26 and kapow!!!Guess I'll slow down a bit next time.Bottom limb was perfect according to my gizmo.It looked good and i hit my weight jus took to much out of midlimb.I think i done it when i sanded out my tooling marks.What do you guys think.I got pics of it tillered to 16" got caught up and forgot to take more as i tillered it out.Handle held up good,nice and rigid felt good in hand too.
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here it is tillered and unstrung right before it broke.So i decided lets see what could have been an threw some tung on it,Dammiit man i did cry then!It was beautiful.good thing i glued up another while workin this one !!LOL
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it really looks like the backing failed. tiller did look just a bit rushed. in the unbraced profile it was getting a bit of set in the last 1/3 of each limb. that looks like where it broke. that was the best looking handle i have seen in awhile. mind if i copy it?? i bet you learned a lot on that one, try try try again.
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sulphur shoot me an email and I will get you some better detailed closeup pics of the handle.i was really proud of the way it came out.Yea i think i need to slow down tillering.when you tiller how do you go about it.Go an inch and get same bend,flex then go again?I think i'm just rushing it,trying to get to full draw and keep my weight.I did hit my weight tho.it would have shot hard and fast.I'm goin to try again and see if I can mimic this one.Think heat would help the backing or belly.I got one glued up but on the next i was goin to heat and compare to no-heat.see what works best.Thanks for the handle compliment at least i got it right!LOL It is 1/4"cherry and 1/8"Maple.Started at 12 inches and stepped back 1 in. until top two and put two peices of cherry on top cherry lam.1.5"lng and 2" long with .5" or so between em.I got better pics of it I can send you.Thanks man you been a tremendous help!!
Thanks to all watchin this build,sucks that it broke,gimme a few days and i will repost sister build ;D
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it really looks like the backing failed. tiller did look just a bit rushed. in the unbraced profile it was getting a bit of set in the last 1/3 of each limb. that looks like where it broke. that was the best looking handle i have seen in awhile. mind if i copy it?? i bet you learned a lot on that one, try try try again.
i agree with sulphur - i can't see the hinge, and back looks like a classic tension failure to me (i'm no expert though). just out of curiosity, how much time did you put into making the tapers smooth & floor tillering before you strung it? and how much exercise did you give it after each scraping/rasping session?
what do you think about starting the next one at 68" & piking it as needed? what do you think about focusing the reflex from mid-limb out, too?
seems like most of the set i've observed in my own cherry bows is at mid-limb.
did you floor tiller the belly a little before you glued it?
what do you think of me bombarding you with questions? ;)
"Curious Rob"
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Rob- so the back failed and not the belly. ???I spent prolly an hour and a half or so getting it to bend it was really really strong outta the form,as for the tapers i kinda did them as i went,should i taper them first and what thickness am i looking for,it was 3/4 at fade,5/8 mid limb and 3/8 tip.I excercised it 40 times after each scrape,as for 68" i cut my cherry down to 65" and will have to wait for more wood.after tryin to glue my handle to reflex in the center i think i will glue handle first next time then back it.Kinda went backwards i guess.I didnt floor tiller belly at all.Guess i was scared of comin in under weight.I love the questions keep em comin.Thats how I learn best.I'm an asker If i dont know rest assured I will ask until i find out and off i go.I appreciate your input.This forum has been such a help and all are great people.Now after your takedown comment,got da wheels turnin and jus so happens that my form didnt glue up good in the handle section but the limbs did so I may Put er on da choppin block and see if i can break another limb >:D.LMAO Cant make it work if ya dont try!!Thanks ;D
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that's what it looks like to me- most of my belly fails have been pretty unspectacular- more of a "crink- crunch". yours looks like it was a worthy explosion.
i think you were right on track with the dimensions, but i'm firmly rooted to my soapbox on smooth tapers. with cherry's reputation for chrysaling, it seems like your tempting fate by not getting them in order before bending. but- in looking at the pics, i can't honestly say if floor tillering & obsessing on tapers would have made a difference for you on this bow. i prefer to think of floor tillering as an extra measure of insurance, and it helps me pinpoint where to focus the reflex- if a belly floor tillers a bit whippy, then i know to put more reflex in the outer limbs & maybe leave the inners as they are. if it floor tillers with too much bend in the handle, then i add a power lam.
i'm still not too trusting of maple for cherry either, but that's just me- seems like most other guys have done fine with it. you may want to check your other rips to see if there's a bit of figuring or swirl to the grain in the same spot on another rip. i guess that would go for the bellies too. i managed to overlook a check in a hickory backing strip last week that caused a R/D hick/maple/ipe trilam explosion, so wood defects are kinda fresh in my mind.
i suspect you'll get some more experienced folks weighing in on the cause of death. i don't put too much stock in my knowledge atm- i'm all hopped up on painkillers ><
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Lol,I feel ya man!Mind kinda numb,mines been the same way for the past two months.Had a disk replaced in my neck.I got an idea on how to fix this bow and I'm at it now.I'll post some pics of my idea this evening with the progress.I will try floor tillering an tapering tthe belly on my next one.I am bound and determined to make this bow work as well as the wood combo.Thanks again!!
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i think you would have saved a lot of time if you didn't shape your handle before you were done tillering. Next time maybe you should shape it after, to at least know that it won't break. JMO
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youngbowyer hit it right. i never shape a handle till i know it will shoot and either close to final tiller or right on it. I also was thing it might have been just a bit on the short side. Mine are usually 68" from tip to tip and 66" ntn. as far as how i tiller, thats a long anwser to type. I cut a straight taper on my limbs starting 3" past the fades. i cut the limb thickness uniformly at about 9/16 to 1/2". the intial tiller will be stiff in the outer halves. then i round off my corners back and belly. then i start removing wood from the outer halves in a stepped pattern. more towards the tips and less towards the fades. i am actually thickness tapering the limb a little at a time. probably best just to watch my video build along. it explains it better. start with part 10 thats where the intial bending is and part 11 starts the tillering.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxIfexDQWks
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YB33-thanks I'll have to remember that.Never really thought of it but i did it on my self bow so why not on this one.
Sulphur-Thanks I'll check it out.I'm workin on a fix but we'll see if its gonna work tommorow.Thanks for the help.
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this has been said but heres 2 cent , i would bet on backing failure , try to get a hold of hickory or elm even for backing , also before you bend any round the corners of the back of the bow this will hold down the chance of splinters. second tiller looked fine to me a little whipped but still fine. handle shape after , i made this mistake on several bows lots of time in shaping and sanding then they broke. judging from the wood working ive seen from you so far my guess is that you will splice a newe limb on this one ! good work , keep trying , and have fun
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Ken-thank you for the tips on rounding back and handle.Thank you sir for the wood work judgement the glue is drying as we speak ;D :D added some lams to the back at the handle for a bit of insurance.i couldnt stand the thought of letting it sit.so much potential!!
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make sure your back pieces end before the fades end or they will pull up .remember back lams need to be inside the fades on a nonbending part
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i laid em fade end to fade end and planned on workin em down to the thickest part of both fades.didnt get the best 45 joint on my splice but i think it will hold. got it together but i got my limb too narrow and it started chrysalling.I think i have it figured out and have another glued up.We'll see if my wider design will work ;) Heres some pics of splice chrysals and tips.
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I glued in some deflex with this one and I am goin to leave the limbs 1 7/8 at fades taperin to 13/8 mid limb then to 1/2 at tips.Hopefully will have better outcome than last one.Bottom limb still holdin up so i guess this one will start my corner of shame until i have a brainstorm!!
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I'm not so sure about what kind of failure you had. Sure the back is broke, but there are compression fractures on the belly, too. Who's to say which came first? Either one could precipitate the other. My two cents based on one of my failed cherry bows is that reflexing the handle is a bad idea. You're asking a wood that likes to chrysall in compression to bend even further to get to your draw. FWIW, my advice would be to deflex the handle and put your reflex in from mid-limb out to the tips. Sweet handle, BTW. When you nail it, it's gonna be both a looker and a killer!
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Zen- the back let go on the upper limb on my first attempt so i spliced another on it and the belly chrysalled this time.This was my first glue up attempt and i reflexed whole bow.I got another glued up with a bit of deflex and i'm goin to widen the limbs a bit.Thanks for the handle compliment.What are your thoughts on some short static tips?Think it would help or hurt the cherry?I'm backin with maple by the way.Thanks
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I'm flattered that you're asking me, but I've never made or really researched laminated bows yet, so I can't really make an opinion on maple as a backing for cherry. I do know that static tips will sweeten the draw (low stack), but like reflex will concentrate more bending on less limb. If you're having problems with chrysalling, better to play it safe and use the whole limb for bending.
The chrysalling could also be a result of a tension strong wood overpowering a weaker belly wood. If you "trap" the back, there will be less maple to resist stretching, so it will be less inclined to crush the cherry.
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Zen your flattery is well deserved as obviously you have more experience with cherry and brought some really good points to my attention.I had never thought about trapping the back,believe i'll give that a go.I think I'm askin too much of the cherry in my design,what ur thoughts about just slightly flippin tips and not reflexin at all?