Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Minuteman on April 06, 2007, 09:52:43 pm
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Tired of messin' with home made scrapers. I need a good one.
I just watched the Dean Torges' HTOB video Thanks Matt. His Bowyers edge looked pretty smooth . Is it a good buy ? Does it work well? Easy to adjust?
Leanin' that way.Any advice would be good.
Chris
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Wouldn't be caught dead making a bow without mine.
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I have a Bowyers Edge and use it on some woods but not others. Clear wood works best and boards better than staves. It is a well made tool although you shape the handle yourself. I actually prefer a regular cabinet scraper for all around use. That and a Nicholson #49 or 50 will get you going pretty good. I bought my scrapers in a set(4) from Lowes but I know Grizzly sells a set of 6 for $10 to $15. Pat
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........I have a bunch of scrapers but my favorite of all time is the "bowscraper" made by Dick Baugh of ca. I like the degree angle of the blade better than others I have tried. Works on boards and staves. If it works on Ipe boards it has to be good ! I made a sharpening jig for it out of a piece of 2x4 and a screw. Works like a charm. Got 1st one 10-12 yrs ago, finally wore out got a second one..LOL...No I don't have a interest in the manufacturing, just relly like it ! ;D..bob
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Pat: those tools you mentioned - where might a feller find some of those? What is the Nicholson #49/50, who's Grizzly? just curious, think I need more stuff.
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cowboy their rasps flat on one side 1/2 round on other 3 Rivers are advertising a set of both the #49 and #50 rasps for $100
Pretty steep, think I would look elsewhere
DanaM
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i love my mystic scraper. haven't used any other since i got it. like pat, i rely heavily on rasps and this scraper.
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Real Nicholson cabinetmaker rasps (#49 and #50) are pricey but well worth it and they last a lifetime.
If you search the net, you can find them less than $50.
These are not the same as the Home Depot "Nicholson" in the cardboard and plastic package selling for $9.
As far as scrapers, a large pair of disassembled Fiskar scissors works like a charm. Plus you get two scrapers.
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The sissor idea is excellant and a cheap alternative. Buy a new set for the house and disassemble the old set to use as scrapers.
Cowboy, Grizzly is an import tool and machinery co. They sell all types of power tools(and hand tools) for wood and metal working. The Nicholson #49 and #50 are excellant half round wood wrasps that are pricey but well worth the money. Pat
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Like Pat I like the regular cabinet scraper. I got a package with 6, several sizes of rectangle and other shapes for $8. After I read the post on how to sharpen them I went and got a burnishing rod. It cost more than the scraper set. It was well worth the money. Scraping went from a tedious job to a, well sometimes it still is tedious. But last night I was working on a guava stave. I had it bending but still 60# at brace. I sharpened and burnished the scraper and with 5 strokes on each limb I can move down an inch on the tillering tree. Justin
Here is the post on sharpening your scraper, and thanks to Roger http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,1237.0.html
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Like Justin said, having the right burr on your scraper edge makes a lot of difference. Also, if you have a drawknife, turn it up perpendicular to the wood with the bevel facing away from you and use it as a scraper-takes off big, thin, curly shavings.
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A good burnishing tool for scrapers is a round shanked screwdriver.
I do most of my tillering with a scraper. Once I get to floor tiller that all I use unless I have a difficult part and need to use a rasp a bit first. Since I started using a scraper for tillering, I slowed down my work rate and my bows became bows ;D...not candidates for the "Corner..." :'(. Pat
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Home Depot down here sells the real #49 Nickelson cabinetmaker rasp. Its a very agressive especially with a handle. The #50 you can expect to pay for......... up to $50 proally. Its worth it . The #49 like I said is very agressive and can really remove wood and leave deep marks but the #50 will remove them. A good combo with a SHARP scraper after them..................bob
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Bob,
If it's the original 49 the teeth are raised by hand one at a time with a chisel and they cost at least $40. The modern #49's styled similar but are not the same thing. My #50 cost $60 (it was a very generous gift from my family) and I can't imagine working without it. I would pay $100 for the pair and never look back. These rasps are in a class of their own.
I've used the Bowyer's Edge quite a bit, but though it is a wonderful tool (Cadillac!), it is not as versatile as a flat steel cabinet scraper. I like my scrapers to be thicker than average. Stanley makes a beefy one for $10 that can peel incredible shavings with the right edge. If money were an object, I would buy the 'card' scraper and add the Bowscraper or the Bowyer's Edge later. You could also make a similar scraper very easily.
J. D. Duff
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Thx J.D.-----I know about the teeth being raised. Thats why I grabbed up the 49"s when H.D. had them. I have a #50 that I payed dearly for(about $40 a no. of years ago) and it has made lots of bow a nd still works wonderfully. BTW H.D. is still selling the #49 for $10 or so, saw them last week when I was in the store,thats the raised teeth one not the stamped one. For me Bowscraper works better than the flat steel cabinet scrapers I bought or made (I have many) and I know how to burnish a large or small edge roll ! ;) Bowscraper has a 62 deg edge with no hook. Torges Bowyers Edge has a 45 deg edge and can be burnished with a hook if you wish. I prefer Baughs Bowscraper with no hook, I made a sharpening jig from a piece of 2x4 and when its just sharpened its wicked. Lasts longer than a cabinet or card scrape ror Torges Bowyers Edge which has to be re-touched every 25 mins of use or so , as far as I am concerned. Does my heart good to see H.D. screw up :D..Thx again.......bob
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Hmm I guess I stand corrected on the Nicholson rasps but when yer new at this there is much other stuff
to acquire. Still $ 100 is nice chunk of change. Hey I have a birthday next month I'll hafta drop a few hints around da house eh. :D
DanaM
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hehe, my birthday is this month, so dana i guess i'm older than you and demand the corresponding respect ;D you could start showing it by sending me those rasps ;D
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Will a heart felt Happy Birthday work Marius?
I hope so as its all I can afford. And yes I will remember taht you are my senior.
A couple more years and I can join the AARP. ;D
DanaM
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absolutely dana, i was just kidding about the rasps and the seniority ;D but i'm even more senior by looks than by age ;D
what's AARP? maybe i should join it now?
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AARP ask PatB hehehe, Its a senior citizen organization.
I don't know Marius I have quite a few grey hairs myself.
DanaM
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I just bought a #50, and really like the way it performs!
Justin, thinks for reposting the scrapper sharpening thread. I havn't been the best at keeping my scrappers sharpened. I'm sure the effort will be paid back easily in less effort required during bow building.
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If you had a limited budget and could only buy one rasp, what would it be? The #49 or #50? :-\
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.......Scott...I would buy a #50. I know its a bit of $ but it will last you many years if you take care of it. Buy a file card with it in H.D. and clean it every time you use it so acids and crap don't work on metal. Make a cardboard case for it and keep in there so teeth (raised) don't come in contact with other metal. Better to buy a good file once than crap a no. of times and still spend the same $ in the long run.......................bob
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If I could only have 1 it would be the fariers rasp. ;D Justin
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I'm looking forward to trying one Justin. Why does Torges not like them?
J. D. Duff
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I save my worn out jointer blades and use them for scraping.A six inch jointer blade work great for cleaning up a bow and you can never wear it out.You also can dress then quickly on a belt sander I rarely have to burnish them for bow work.Your local cabinet shop will probably give you a set of them.
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All the farrier's rasps I've seen have been big brutish looking things. They aren't for tillerin' just roughin into shape.That bein' said I own two of em. Ones pretty aggressive on both sides one is super rough on one side, smooth cut on the other. I didn't know that Torges had a dislike for farrier's rasps. ???
You can get 'em real cheap at " antique" stores and flea markets with plenty of life left in 'em.
They sure will hog off the wood.
Chris
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I didn't know Torges didn't like them either. A true farriers rasp is rough on one side and smoother cut on the other. You use one side to hog the material off a horses foot, and the other side to clean it up for the shoe. Price also depends on were it was made USA, or China. There is a huge difference in the quality of the steel. The USA one will last years longer, but will cost double. If you go to an antique store, make sure its made in USA. It will have a stamp in the steel down on the end by the tail, saying China or USA.
Chris is right, they aren't for tillering. I don't think any rasp is for tillering. You could use the less aggressive side, but you might end up with tool marks, or a bow that is too light. Justin
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i love my mystic scraper.
I just got one of them. It's good to hear you like it. I haven't tried it out yet.
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i've made 4 bows with it so far and never had to sharpen it. gives you good control because of its shape. i'll never use anything else for tillering.
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Why does Torges not like them?
'Cause he wants to sell you a bowyer's edge ;D
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You may have a point Hillbilly but Torges is a huge proponent of Nicholson #49's and #50's so I don't think he could be considered anti-rasp.
Has anyone tried to make a bow scraper?
J. D. Duff
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Yes, it works great. I just got such a good price on the set I have I couldn't pass it up. Justin
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surprised to hear someone say that farriers rasps are pricey. I get 'em locally for a little over $20.
and yes they're made in the US... Savedge brand. typically I keep two of 'em around- one in my truck toolbox, one in my other toolbox.
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If you know any farriers they usually have lots of old farrier rasps laying around. Thats where I got mine...for free. With a little finesse I bet you could build a bow from beginning to end with a farriers rasp. Pat
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Im more of a fairy. :-* I mailed out all but 1 of my rasps today. I'll bet your right Pat. Learn to use it and you can make it pretty smooth with the rough side. Mine would be under weight though. Justin
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I ran in to a farrier while looking for a place to hunt. He gave me about 25 he had in the back of his trailer. They are still very sharp for bow making. I plan on using many for custom knives.
Bryan
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Well to bring the story 'round about to the end part, I got a Bowyer's Edge scraper today from Kowechebe down Florida way. I traded an osage stave for it.
Scraper is easy to set up and I had shavings coming offa piece of wood in about ten minutes. Gotta get a bow roughed out so I can put it through its paces. Pretty pleased with it so far.
Doesn't do real well on real flat bellies but I haven't messed with the depth adjustment much yet. I think I had it set a little too deep.
Thanks for all the good posts folks!
Chris
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Question: How do you tell the Nicholson #49 2 from their other rasps?
Are the numbers stamped on them? Perhaps someone could post a picture.
The reason I ask is I see some Nicholson rasps on e-bay
DanaM
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Dana, I have a #50. the word Nicholson and #50 is stamped just above the tang. These rasps (#49 and #50) are half round and about 1" wide and 12" long, if my memory serves me. I'm at work now. Pat
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....Here is a #50 Nichioson file. Can't find my #49 an I just cleaned out garage :o...bob
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Thats what happens when ya clean bob. So their stamped 49 and/or50 then right
danaM
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Bob, I like to see a guy that takes care of his rasps. That cardboard sure does a lot to keep it sharp. My farriers rasps were taken care of like that when I was using them to shoe horses. Now that I have a use for the old ones, I sure wish I had taken the same care of them after I quit using them on horses. Justin
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Yup................Like Pat said marked #49 and #50. BE CAREFUL the #49 comes in stamped teeth, the really good ones are like the #50, have raised teeth by chisel and usually COST ! I have a coupla #49 with stamped teeth in addition to the raised teeth one. They are ok.............eh You have to put a handle on, they dont come with one. JUstin, have to take care of them as much as they cost. :P :o.bob
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You know how you always wear out one glove before the other? Well the good glove left over makes a reasonable leather sheath for your rasps. Just poke a hole in it and tie a piece of leather thing on it and you got a good rasp sheath.