Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Around the Campfire => Topic started by: ken75 on August 21, 2010, 10:08:11 pm
-
im gonna post this here cause its going on a bow soon . any idea what this one is i thought a young water moccasin
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
Looks like a cottonmouth/water moccasin to me.
-
That would be my semi-educated guess. Does it have the trademark white mouth yet?
Thats pretty cool if it is, don't get to see the patterning of cottonmouths to often since they turn almost black with age.
-
looks like a water moccasin to me as well. heres a pic of one for reference. http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_wdtCRgVZ6yE/SWoN4M4UxII/AAAAAAAAGCo/bGAhp3wkwXM/s1600-h/DSC06897.JPG make a nice backing for sure, wish i had some wildlife like that close.
-
haha i guess that link didnt work. anyway heres the source page with pics, hope it helps http://pureflorida.blogspot.com/2009/01/now-that-is-water-moccasin.html
-
Ken,
Being one of the people who dont much care for snakes.....I can definately say it is without doubt.....dangerous ;D Well maybe not it the current condition, but he's gonna make a way better backin than a pet, I know that for sure!!!!
rich
-
great thing about snakes with patterns like that is if theyre fat enough you can split the skin down the middle and have a perfect matching set for backings.
-
Being a fan of snakes, I do feel obligated to say that snakes aren't as bad as some people think. It's like the hysteria that kept people from the beaches after Jaws came out. The venomous ones are certainly no laughing matter, but aren't quite the spawn of satan they are made out to be either.
Thats the beauty of North America. The hot snakes are easily identified by that triangular head shape. It's the venom glands, makes the back of there cheeks stick out. Also the slit pupil vs. a round pupil, but who gets that close to a snake that hasn't already identified it right?
Remember this only applies to North America. Anywhere else in the world, all bets are off. Oh yeah, and Florida too... might be easier to identify what doesn't live there, eh?
-
thanks i was pretty sure it was , i didnt kill it someone ahead of me hit it . although it was still wiggling when i put it in the bag.good size bout 36 inches most that size here are almost black thats why it threw me
-
Just so there isn't any mis-understandings, I'm not trying to come down on anyone. Especially for a roadkill snake. Just throwing the information out there for others who might read it.
If it prevents at least one corn snake from meeting a shovel/hoe I'll be a happy camper!
-
iron i agree i only get road kill ,for some unknown reason almost no rattlers this year though , their usually everywhere
-
thanks i was pretty sure it was , i didnt kill it someone ahead of me hit it . although it was still wiggling when i put it in the bag.good size bout 36 inches most that size here are almost black thats why it threw me
That is the quickest way to get bit, be careful of the ones you think are dead or dying, they are the most dangerous. The head can even bite after it is chopped off.
-
iron i agree i only get road kill ,for some unknown reason almost no rattlers this year though , their usually everywhere
We are just coming out of our rainy season and we are having much lower numbers than last year too Ken.
-
Yep, that triangle head and hooded eyes are a dead givaway. but the patterning on the back looks a lot like the non-venomous diamond back water snakes we have around here..
-
justin just figured i was safe ... professional courtesy you know lol !!,
-
It look's like a Timber rattler to me. Moccasin's are usually darker
-
Head shape is a little short and too boxy IMO to be a timber but the patterns sure are close.
-
Well, does the thing have rattles ;D?
-
It's a canebrake, look's like it was smacked with a shovel. :)
-
The head scales from the nose back have 2 large then 3 then 2. Timbers/Canebrakes (C.horridus) have many and much smaller scutes on the head. Here's an example. http://www.ectotherms.net/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=1705
The presence of those large scutes nails it as a cottonmouth
-
What's on the tail? ???
-
;) ;D
I think Ken's a pretty smart guy and unless he's just trying to mess with us wouldn't have guessed Moccasin if it had a rattle...Just saying...
-
Thats the beauty of North America. The hot snakes are easily identified by that triangular head shape. It's the venom glands, makes the back of there cheeks stick out. Also the slit pupil vs. a round pupil, but who gets that close to a snake that hasn't already identified it right?
Remember this only applies to North America. Anywhere else in the world, all bets are off. Oh yeah, and Florida too... might be easier to identify what doesn't live there, eh?
you have forgotten about coral snakes, but obviously, dont want to get this thread sidetracked, soooo just wanted to correct you a bit lol
yeah, ide prolly say cottonmouth, makes the most sense
-
sorry it took so long busy day no rattles at all and eddie it was hit by a car just ahead of me yesterday just cut it off the board came out nice.might be able to split it down the middle. i think its a young mocassin that hasnt darkened up yet ive seen a bunch this year that havent turned dark for some reason. their patern really stands out
-
Yep, that triangle head and hooded eyes are a dead givaway. but the patterning on the back looks a lot like the non-venomous diamond back water snakes we have around here..
Dont let the triangle head fool you. While pit vipers (Copperheads, rattlers, moccasins) all have a triangle head, a lot of harmless watersnakes do as well.
The give away on a cottonmouth is the dark horizontal band across the eye. I dont care if the snake is old and hardly has any pattern, or if it's a new born that still has a yellow tail (GIVE AWAY FOR A JUVY COPPERHEAD OR COTTONMOUTH!!!!, yellow tip of the tail!!), it will still have the dark horizontal band across the eye.
But yes, cottonmouth.
-
That sure is a pretty one. I'd like to have a couple of those.
-
Dont let the triangle head fool you. While pit vipers (Copperheads, rattlers, moccasins) all have a triangle head, a lot of harmless watersnakes do as well.
The give away on a cottonmouth is the dark horizontal band across the eye. I dont care if the snake is old and hardly has any pattern, or if it's a new born that still has a yellow tail (GIVE AWAY FOR A JUVY COPPERHEAD OR COTTONMOUTH!!!!, yellow tip of the tail!!), it will still have the dark horizontal band across the eye.
But yes, cottonmouth.
Would you happen to know the name of a few species or have some pics for us? I've seen snakes whose patterning made their head look kinda triangular but on closer inspection its just an illusion. When they get agitated and flatten their heads out it kinda gives that impression too...
-
Lyre snakes, Northern Water Snakes and narrow headed garter snakes, of course the lyre snake is technically a venomous snake as well but is innocuous to humans. None of these examples have quite the same bulbous triangular shape but I think illustrate Justin's point.
Western hognose snakes have a very triangular head but can exaggerate it a lot too. Of course they are also mildly venomous.
-
That thar be a cotten mouth! Patten ain't right for a timber (cane brake). There's a Timber rattlers head laying in the road in front of my house in case anybody wants a picture...fresh too ;D
And before anybody gets their drawers in a wad...I didn't kill it. It was picked up out the road.
I also has the black line across it's eye.
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
we have a banded water snake here with a triagular head also ,have to look close to tell its not poisenus,this one is but it came out nice real wide i think i can split it
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
Well, I tand corrected. We don't have Timbers down here where I'm at and most mocassins I see are dark and fat. Ken, you couldn't imagine how many people I've seen beat, shoot and stomp Banded Water Water snakes.
-
lol same here to most a snake is a snake
-
yep...water snakes of various species have triangular heads....not AS triangular as the pit vipers, but enough that the ignorant will kill them and claim cottonmouth.
That head looks like any and every cottonmouth head I've ever seen, or seen pictures of. Did you actually see the body, or was just the head left. A herpetologist from college taught us that the barring on the eye was the sure fire way to tell a cottonmouth, especially when they got big and dark/or muddy (although the body of a cottonmouth is almost unmistakeable as a large adult, most being FAT FAT snakes).
-
Justin that lone head belongs to a Timber/Canebrake rattlesnake. Again it's all about scale counts. Are you people not reading my posts? Scale counts are how biologists identify reptile species, not color, not pattern because those things can vary so much but scale counts don't vary within a species.
Oh yeah and the banding over the eye the majority of rattlesnake species have that too. Copperheads CAN have it but then again coppers and mocs are so closely related they can interbreed. :)
-
I believe you. Not doubting. Just wondering. Learning something new as I go. I wasn't a herp major...fish and wildlife management was my major....and snakes sure weren't my specialty, I know enough to know what they are when theyre whole lol. I read over the posts, but musta missed it.
This is a "rare" NC timber, from western NC...Jackson County to be exact...2mi south of Sylva to be exacter :D......I suppose one would know it was WNC rather than Central/Coastal NC since I said "timber" and not "canebrake"
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e28/treednnc/rattler3.jpg)
EDIT: Oooops forgot to insert the image.
-
I'm viewing this from my phone so I can't see detail, but that's a gorgeous snake! Wasn't trying to bust your gut Justin with that comment jvst messing around. I should remember that sarcasm doesnt translate well on forums. If you want to see ID confusion you should see our scutulatus and atrox. Often the ONLY way to id them is scale count and then it gets really fuzzy when they hybridize Ahh
-
Yes that is a Cottonmouth. You can see the pit in front of the eye. Not to mention the patterns and the head give it away.
-
And you can tell by counting the scales. ;) A real good site for snakes in our area of Florida and Georgia and Alabama is the University of Florida's. Great photo's and habitat info. People living in Florida would be suprised at how many different species of snake is here.