Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: half eye on October 04, 2010, 07:05:40 pm
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Well fellas,
Was wondering about the similarities between the Yingpan, Xinjiang type bows and the mollegabets I'm so fond of. Decided to make a mollegabet pattern bow....but defelxed the working limbs and reflex the levers at the fade but leave them basically straight.
Here's the result. 59", one piece of Black Walnut, 12" working and 13" levers....50/52 # @ 28". Shoots really smooth, has better than fair speed, and no hand shock.
Thwack, just made a molle with the levers recurved so it will be interesting to compare notes as to any advantages or dissadvantages of the two designs. Hope ya like this little "half-breed" cause I sure do. I steam bent the curves and made them to resemble the low angle, no contact, type siyah's but did it with the levers.
Rich
PS: put a photo at the end about the chineese bow....so ya can see how much the plan view resembles the Mollegabet.
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cool, great bow!
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That's killer one cool bow. It looks like a rocket.Great job.
Thanks Leroy
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Very nice. Looks like it's quite a shooter. Jawge
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Nice looking bow. It is a great combination of styles.
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Rich its beautiful!!great work,i really like the profile.I'll have to put it on my list.Cant wait to hear the verdict on the levers!! ;D ;D
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That's a really neat design Rich.I like it. God Bless
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In the original post I forgot to throw in the picks of this bow's "sort-of-twin". It has nearly three inch wide working limbs, it's 63" which was an average of the old Chineese bows (infantry types)it draws 62# at 28" and it needed a lot of wood taken off to get it down that low. Self bow of red elm, nothing glued on. The decorations that I've started are cotton/silk blend thread with a metal ribbon in the thread....eventually it will have a design painted on the backs of the working limbs and sides of the levers. No finish on it yet....just dye. The thread is applied with multiple coats of lacquer.
sorry about the screw up but here's a couple more picks
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those are sweet rich ,cant help but wonder how they shoot ????
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Bring those by my place anytime you are in the Black Hills and we'll set up the chronograph! I get to shoot first! Be interesting to get some numbers on those...if they are the rocket launchers I think they are, I bet they would really be nice for hunting antelope on the wide open!
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Great looking bows. I second the "look like they should be rocket launchers". I thought the Chinese Infantry Bows were laminated bamboo? They were a copy of the Mongul style composite bows without the horn and sinew? These are assumptions that I have picked up from various sorces, I have not researched them. Bill
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JW,
What's your draw and favorite weight?....ya never know what that shed mouse might kick out next....It would be fun to know how fast they are with "normal-people" arrows.....these are flat at 15 yards with 750 grain arrows.
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lol rich "normal people" dont shoot my shafts. takes a mans bow to sling them ...or a roof to build a pole barn out of
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JW,
What's your draw and favorite weight?....ya never know what that shed mouse might kick out next....It would be fun to know how fast they are with "normal-people" arrows.....these are flat at 15 yards with 750 grain arrows.
I have a cramped 26" draw and I am currently shooting a 50# sinewed osage, but am building a new piece that should draw 60. I have a nice osage stave in the garage that is a full 80" long and I'm thinking of a 6'6" ELB pulling 80# @ 26", but I might die before I get built up to shoot that bow! hehehe.
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Rich
WOW :o :o :o!!!
Been waitin on those. I am truly in awe. Both are works of art and lookin deadly. I really like the wraping on that 2'nd one.
My friend you never cease to amaze me...
Ron
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Bill, You maybe correct I was basing my comment on a discussion of the experts where-in they knew of the bamboo, but earlier they were wood, then later wood+sinew, then bamboo.....they went on to say that besides the Roman Military the Chineese army was the only other group to have "factories" (read: standard types) of military bows seperate from the various local types. Where ease of manufacture, with good performance, were the driving consideartion. Heck the Romans left bone siyah plates from bows as far as the British Isles
Ken, yer just gonna have to find out fer your own bad self....about thursday
rich
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is it thurs yet
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Like em both. Always look forward to your post.
Jeff
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Thats a killer looking bow.
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Thank you fellas for the compliments.....This is still an experiment somewhat. If ya notice in the braced shot there is still a little room to increase the lever angle....but still keep the string off the bow. I like the bow to be quiet, even if it means it costs some performance.
Another thing is that the low angle levers (or siyahs if you was buildin that kind) give you a low brace height, which I like because you get a longer power stroke. The high angle types give somewhat more speed (and noise) and greater brace height,
but the low angle gives more cast and power transmittion...so it's a trade off that I haven't figured out which is best yet.
Thanks again fellas
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Those are both very nice bows. I really love the angles of that first bow, Rich. Super work, sir!
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Dang that's cool! :o
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Rich i was wonderin when you was gonna do that wide limb monster.soon as i get my hands on some more wood i got some ideas!That durned llight keeps coming on in my head ;D ;D ;D
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Randy,
Got a piece of Black Walnut sittin there in mortal fear of it's life..... Sould give me 4" wide if I decide that's good.....was thinkin shorter,wider, working and longer levers. Course maybe I'm gettin too much sun here lately too!!!
rich
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Hahahaha,i hear ya on the sun thing!!LOl i would be curious how one would perform built to the same dimensions as the bow they digitally reconstructed?the niyah bow was it?
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Half eye your experiments, and adventures in bow making are a great informational asset to our community. Keep up the awesome work! ;D
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I really like those two bows Rich. I like the second one best, but maybe that just because of the tastefull decoration! I actually like the one that shoots fastest the best?. Very worthwhile experiments! I agree with one of the above guys, can you get them chrono'd? I'm up for making one of those myself!! Nice work
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Thank you ...again, just havin some fun and maybe get me a screamer fer them Pettin-zoo deers.
Thwack, I do believe that it would be fairly serious. But this bow and the all wood found next door are early bows and follow the Hunnic pattern (influenced by) these types later on morphed into shorter siyah, full contact type so I'm guessing that the later types were somehow better. Some of these early bows had sinew layed on lengthwise, end to end....then were transversely wrapped in two seperate layers "criss-cross" like for a total of three layers + horn so I got to believe they drew serious weight and had good speed.
Aries, thanks, probably wont ever get that burr out from under the saddle.
Thanks dragonman, The longer 60+# is pretty darned quick....and considering they are both simple self bows I'm impressed with the speed but more so....the cast, and so far they seem very well mannered. Both these are going to new homes and maybe their owners can report on performance after they shoot the snot out of 'em. As to actual chrono....probably have to send to JW so he can play with it some.....that would give 3 independant reviews and then some adjustments can/will be made.
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i'll be more than glad to chrono,field test , and report what i think .after thurs.
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BRAVO!!!! You really captured the spirit of the Chinese military bow.
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Rich..That is one SWEET bow. And a piece of insperation. I told myself i was'nt going to try another for a while. But that one got my mouth to watering ;D
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Rich, nice job my friend! They look like great performers as always. You never disappoint!
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Rich- You're the man! That is one cool bow!
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Thanks fellas, means a lot comin from a nice buch of guys. Workin on version number 2 of the walnut bow.....and sent the #1 out for a torture test.....we'll see how it does in the real world, eh?
rich
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i love seeing you guys building new designs thats why it is so much fun.hope to get back in it soon.kink
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Congrats on 2 more beauties - way to inspire us to think outta the box!
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I was just on a Hungarian bowyers site and he has a "new" bow that is based on what is believed to be the "true" Magyar design and your bow when at full draw shares a very similar profile. Again just a great job. I keep going back to the pictures and going onto other sites to see what profiles match your bow. You are a GENIUS-just need to shoot with a thumb draw:)
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Thanks again fellas, just maybe somebody gets an idea or two from these bows would be great. I did make a second walnut bow today but made one change....the working limbs are 2-1/2" at the grip fade and taper to 2" at the lever fade. The other difference is that I put my usual grip on it (3" flat and 1-1/2" fades) The working limbs were also slightly tapered in thickness....rough cut dimensions were 9/16 at the grip fade and 1/2" at the lever fade. To make a long story short, the bow come off the saw floor tillered to 20" and 10 pounds heavy....maybe took 30-40 strokes of the scraper and it was right where I needed it. Damnedest thing I ever saw!!!!! Grease and pitch is settin up right now....will post pics tomorrow of #2....these things are pretty damned fast for only being about 50+ # @ 27"
JBL I've allways wanted to "thumb it" but only got small use of the right hand (and that dont include the thumb) so that's not gonna happen......but the good news is the 3 string hooks work GOOD
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very cool interpretations/hybrids. you certainly have a great ability to put ideas to work. as soon as i get some decent backing wood im going to have to try one of these designs myself. theyre right up there in my favorite designs and the only reason i havent done one is due to the lack of useable lumber in my area. im really amazed at the similarities of the molle and the "composites" in these examples, it definitly shows the similar influences spread across the globe early on.
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Richard uve made some fine bows in the past but every time i get online to see ur work u always amaze me! I love this bow and the finish is awesome! I'll give u a call here shortly! Talk to u soon!
Russ
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sweet looking bows Rich, look like meat getters, Bub
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Man Rich....the more I see them the more I like them.