Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: bucksbuoy on November 02, 2010, 12:09:43 pm
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Ive noticed alot of people turning their nose up at oak. I thought this was the traditional wood for ELBs and EWBs. So whats wrong with it? Im trying to make a traditioanl heavy war bow. It will only be my second bow (if I succed) but probably my millionth attempt. :D My first bow was a yellow birch self bow 48" long and about 65# at 25". That bow will be going back on the bench soon for some sinewing and refining but man that thing shoots arrows like bullets!
names Jason by the way
Bucks county PA
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Dunno if it was used for ELB's or warbows, I've never heard of it being traditionally chosen for the projects, but I do know that red oak makes fine medium weight flatbows, and white oak is about as tough as it gets!
I personally prefer flatter bows compared to deeper ELB's, and I've had a good bit of success with oak. Actually, if it weren't so few compared to hickory, I'd be using white oak a whole lot more :)
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What's wrong with oak? I'll tell you what's wrong with it! ...Nothing! Jawge
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i like it. red oak, mostly. ive had good success, but the hardest thing with those is finding a good piece at the lumberyard.. ive put a 48 red oak board, with non bending handle, through a lot. sure, it broke at 24, but i believe it was also due to a bad piece of wood. i really like to use the 1/8 inch slats at lowes..
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I've yet to do a stave oak bow, but done red and white oak board bows. Works great.
Welcome to PA, Jason. Where are you at in Bucks County? I grew up in Yardley as a young'un.
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I prefer White Oak over red, I think it's a lot tougher and makes a shorter, heavier weight bow, but that's just MHO
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I prefer White Oak over red, I think it's a lot tougher and makes a shorter, heavier weight bow, but that's just MHO
In TBB vol 4 Tim Baker talks about how white oak is tougher than hickory in bending tests. The few white oak bows I've done, so long as I didn't get them too dry, also seemed tougher than some of my hickory bows. It's a beast ;D
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Hey thanks for responding and that was really what I wanted to hear. I cut this tree by hand and carried an 8 foot section almost a mile out of the woods. Didn't think I could do it really. Anyway, red oak is pretty common in my area, as are alot of hardwoods. I just did a little research and found that red oak has a similar density and hardness to white ash and white oak is close to yew. Ebony was the hardest and densest wood I could find any info on. Would love to get my hands on an ebony stave. Im fond of flat bows too Kegan, thats next actually. Awesome answer Jawge hahahaha! And Home Depot is so much better then lowes aero, come on. I live in holland Parnell. I love yardley and the Delaware or the Big D as I like to call it. Bucks is a great place to be from. Thanks again guys. Any nay sayers?
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I don't know about white oak but red makes a good medium weight flatbow but I wouldn't use it for a heavy warbow
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I've made quite a few pyramid bows from red oak and really don't have a problem with it when it's flat, wide, and kept in the mid 50#'s and under at reasonable draw lengths. However, it's not a wood that can be pushed into radical profiles, short draws, etc. White oak on the other hand is quite a different story. :)
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Testament to the durability of white oak...
A year or so ago I built a white oak flatbow with a quick cured sinew backing. It started with 3/4" of reflex and was about 65" between the nocks. The bow started off pulling 80# or so at 26", and settled in straight. The bow was only 1 3/4" wide for half the limbs length with a very light belly tempering and the thin sinew backing previously mentioned.
The bow was shot for about three months through high humidity, rain, and lots of other not so fun weather conditions. Bear in mind the bow wasn't super-cured when I started either. After this period I began working on fixing my form, and one of those aspects was to increase my draw. A lack of another weapon led me to practicing on this one. I stretched my draw to 29" practicing on this, where the bow pulled almost 90# at first and after more heavy shooting in adverse conditions settled down to about 85# at 29". A deflexed spot near the handle resulted in about 2 1/4" of string follow on the top limb, while the bottom limb is suprising still only at 1 1/4". This is despite lots of abuse and improper care and construction! I might have to go back and redo the whole thing. Shoots fine but is much too heavy for me these days. It certainly has earned it ;)
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Nothing at all wrong with oak for flat bows but I don't think it has the compression strength to handle the round belly of an ELB or traditional war bow. A more rectangular cross section would be more appropriate oak and I believe some war bows of ash or elm had a more rectangular cross section.
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Ok that all sounds good. I guess Ill have to modify my plans and make it a flaty. I like the look and feel of that better any way. I must say I am a little disapointed to hear that I should keep the draw weight in the low 50s. The stave I have is about 70" long and was hopeing to get at least a 65 # at 29" out of it. Its supposed to be a gift for a friend and he is a horse. I also have an 8 foot section that is not so pretty but I could get at least one 6 foot plus stave out of it. Let me know what you think. You all really know your stuff and Im thrilled that I found this sight. If you guys could have been a fly on the wall when I first started out :D
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You can make a heavier-than-specific-gravity bow by making it wider. Heck, there's a 70" hickory flatbow in TBB vol 4 by Ken V. (in Badger's mass chapter) that pulls 95# at 30" some inches!
Also, I've done a couple flat belly D bows, usually longer, and so far if tempered and well tillered they'll work fine. They were all a little wider, about 1 3/8" or so. Not exactly an ELB, but looks and shoots kinda like 'em.
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Heres another question if anyone is still reading this post. Were do you get your white oak? Is it quarter sawn from the lumer yard or do you harvest it yourself for the heart section? Or is it board wood and do you back it? The more I learn the more I realize I dont know!!! Ha hahahaha!
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The only white oak I've used I cut myself, peeled off the bark and cambium and built a bow. Treat white oak like any other white wood. The bark slips off if cut diring the growing season.
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All the board cuts (1/4 sawn, plane sawn and rift sawn) will make bows. The answer to your,buskbuoy, is that in stave or board form white oak will make a fine bow. Also you don;t have to just choose heartwood staves or boards. The sapwood is quite useful for bows. Jawge
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I cut my own trees. Only oak I've bought is red... with mixed results as far as selfbows (the weight I want does not work with the boards I find :D)
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The more I learn the more I realize I dont know!!! Ha hahahaha!
I'm the same way, I've learned so bloody darn much that I am a certified idiot as we speak. And don't take my word for it, ask around! ;D