Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: bucksbuoy on November 24, 2010, 02:48:21 pm
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This origionally started out as my attempt at a Leni Lenape style bow. Been hearing about the greatness of the lenape bows since I was a kid, so I had to give it a shot. 48" NTN yellow birch. pulling 60# at 26. Shot arrows like bullets but didnt feel very durable so back on the bench it went for a partial rawhide backing, rawhide tip overlays, rawhide stacked handle, and I tillered it down to a safe 30# at 26 for the girlfriend to play with. Now I have an archery partner ;D You can pull this thing to Abu Dhabi. I get it to my normal 30" draw without a squeak, creak, or a pop. Im new to bow building but Ive been an avid archer since I was 12, Im 27 now, so... wow, 15 years! Sounds like an affliction. Any hoo. This yellow birch feels fantasic and I highly recommend it if you can get your hands on some. It is fast and flexible. Period. I would like to thank everyone who helped me along the way. You know who you are! Thanks everybody!!!
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Wild looking bends, wouldn't have thought Birch would like that. I've only used Birch for arrows so far.
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I would not yank that back too far on a consistent basis. The only place it is bending is in the handle. Jawge
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Its a bad picture. it came out of a gnarly stave that had a bit of twist to it making the limbs look thicker then they really are. It bends pretty evenly throughtout. just doesnt look like it because of the character of the stave and the bad lighting in the picture.
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Guess I should clarify my intentions a little. Ive always heard that the Leni Lenape aka Delaware natives of my area shot yellow birch bows 48" long, an inch wide all the way to the tips, with 100# draw weights at an excess of 100 yards. No one knows if this is true but the Quakers docummented it this way. Quakers arent notorious for exaggeration so Im inclined to beleive it. They were supposed to be bend throught the handle, with a uniform belly to back thickness. Its said that their bows were fragile and they just shot them until they broke and made another one. Leni Lenape translates to "real men" by the way. This bow was intended to be more of a historical experiment, just to see if any of this was even possible. Like I said I got it to 60# at 26". I Broke a 140# hemp string with it. Honestly I think 100# would be possible with wood from a better, more mature tree. I made alot of mistakes with this bow but if you aint making mistakes, you aint tryin hard enough I say. My next bow will be a polar opposite to this. Going for a 72" maple board bow. Again Ill be making this as heavy as possible and probably backing it with rawhide. keep your eyes peeled!
Thanks again
Jason
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WHOA! I think your bow might not last too long. It's short, and doing all it's bending right at the fades. The limbs are completely stiff, and aren't doing any work at all. I actually can't believe it hasn't broken already. I'll bet it's taken a bunch of set? It is certainly bending through the handle, but next time, try and get more of the rest of the limbs involved.
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As adb says!
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Honestly I thought it would break too. Like I said it was an experiment based on historic specifications. Oddly enough it did not break. Infact it shoots nice with almost no hand shock. The pic is a little dramatic because Im pulling it to like 29" to demonstate the insane bending ability of this yellow birch (I cant take credit for it, its the wood) but its actually tillered for a 20" draw which barely bends the limbs beyond brace height. Keep in mind this is a D bow. Its supposed to bend through the handle more then any were else.
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Honestly I thought it would break too. Like I said it was an experiment based on historic specifications. Oddly enough it did not break. Infact it shoots nice with almost no hand shock. The pic is a little dramatic because Im pulling it to like 29" to demonstate the insane bending ability of this yellow birch (I cant take credit for it, its the wood) but its actually tillered for a 20" draw which barely bends the limbs beyond brace height. Keep in mind this is a D bow. Its supposed to bend through the handle more then any were else.
I've never seen a D bow bend like that! Looks like a V bow :P
I don't want to bust your balls, but any time you draw a wood bow 9 inches past the intended owners draw length, you are damaging the wood cells on the belly which will hurt the bow's performance. The end draw length and weight should be determined before you even start the tillering, and should never be exceeded, or you will have excessive set which will rob you of cast. ...or so I've been told ;)
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bucksbuoy,
You've been given some great advice... if it was me, I'd go with it. ;)
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Wow ! Dramatic Experimentation is what makes the world go round. Hope your girlfriend likes it. ' Frank
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I don't want to dwell on this but bending in the handle is fine. Built plenty that do but when the only place it bends is in the handle that can create problems. One that comes to mind is the bow will kick like a mule. Jawge
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If my girl friend shoots this one time Ill be happy. Shes not what you would call outdoorsy. If it breaks or takes a nasty set, Im not gonna cry. Im just glad I made something that shoots arrows. My last bow ended up being a perch for my pet python to climb on. Ive been hearing about bows like this for as long as I can remember and just needed to try it. I knew it would have radical bends and essentialy be disposable. Like Ive said before, if all I wanted was a nice, reliable, bow, I would buy one. Im playing and experimenting so I can find what works best for me. I like the bend through the handle bows and wanted to push it to the extreme to see how it felt (it feels nice ;) )And guys, come on. I post on this sight because I WANT to hear your criticisms. I appreciate your opinions.
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Im gonna have to agree with the majority on how that bends
I give ya credit for the effort
But if you truly like that girl ya got
Personaly i wouldnt let her shoot that thing just for her safety and well being
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My last bow ended up being a perch for my pet python to climb on.
I just snorted soda pop out my nose reading that!!! I have a hickory bow limb in an aviary for my Senegal Coucal to perch on!
See? All great minds think alike. Oh yeah, and all fools fail in similar fashion.
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Im gonna have to agree with the majority on how that bends
I give ya credit for the effort
But if you truly like that girl ya got
Personaly i wouldnt let her shoot that thing just for her safety and well being
I'd have to agree... I wouldn't let anyone shoot that either.
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well apparently my girlfriend has a little more gumption then some folks around here. she shot it but broke the serving and ended up stealing my recurve. I knew she would. :)
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I believe, perhaps, that you have a responsibility to behave in your girlfriends best interests, and not yours.
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Amazing alright! :o But I would not mess with it any more. I would put it up, with pictures of it, just to show what it can take, and then build one with a more normal tiller. I wouldn't let her shoot it any more. If it should break on her, you could have a very cold summer, as well as winter ! ;) ::) ::)
Wayne
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Im sorry adb, but you feel that you can pass judgement on me based on a single full draw picture? you can look at one blurry image and immediately determine that, not only is a bow no good, but overtly dangerous? not to mention you see fit to attack my character and suggest that I am endangering my girl friend, again, based on a single, blurry, full draw picture. boy, Ill tell you what....
Frank, Wayne, thanks for the compliment. This bow was an experiment and I have no grand intentions for it. It just so happened that the things rocks. Still, If the girlfriend takes any real interest in archery, Ill buy her a bow. Or she can pick from the three store bought kids bows that I have on hand.
J.W. you are a man after my own heart. for sure.
Cameroo I think you coined a new term "V" bow!
George you always give great advice, thank you
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Bucksbuoy,
Don't get too bent outta shape there. Everyone who has posted something about this bow has very nicely tried to explain that you've tillered it to bend in an unsafe manner. Take into account for a second that at least three people who've replied to your post easily have at least 2000 more posts on this forum than you do. I personally don't think adb was making any kind of personal attack on you. He was merely cautioning you that the way you've tillered your bow it is likely to break. I don't know, maybe you'll keep shooting this and prove us all wrong, but plain and simple - your bow is ONLY bending in the handle. Even if it doesn't break, it's still woefully inefficient. You've got the lengthy expanse of both limbs which aren't doing any work. All the work is being done by 1/3 of the bows length and all in the handle area. Also, as at least one other poster mentioned, you never tiller a bow to 26" and then draw it 30". That's just asking for it at best to take a bunch more set, and worst break outright, and probably in your hand. If it breaks in your hand you'll be lucky if you walk away with only a bump on the head or a split lip. At the worst it could take your eye out. You may have followed the general shape for a Leni Lenape bow but I guarantee you there's no American Indian bow out there that is tillered to bend only in the handle and nowhere else along the length of the limbs. Nobody is out to roast you here, some folks (with a LOT of experience), are just trying to gently point out your mistakes and hopefully help you become a better bowyer.
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Well said Matt, I agree no ones bashing your character or knockin your bow.They are good people and jus tryin to help.And your pic looks good far as I can tell.Hope it holds!Cool looking bow and interestin that birch is bending that far.Keep us posted on it!
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bucksbuoy,
I believe, perhaps, that you have misinterpreted my intent. This is not a personal attack on you. I think I also have a responsibility. As a slightly more experienced bowyer, I think it is important to offer honest and truthful advice.
Yes, I can tell from your picture, how your bow is bending at full draw. You are in a position of trust with your girlfriend, and she does trust your judgement. I don't think the bow you are handing her is safe to shoot. Maintain her trust, and build her a bow which is safe.
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is this an archery site or relationship counseling? adb Ive seen your work. you build beautiful bows and I repect your opinion. but i dont really appreciate being told what my responsibilities are. and i certaintly dont appreciate being told, repeatedly I might add, what i should "let" or "not let" my girlfriend do.
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Keep in mind this is a D bow. Its supposed to bend through the handle more then any were else.
No. A D-bow bends evenly over it's entire length, not just in the handle. A D-bow has a CIRCULAR tiller, not a V-shaped tiller. Heck, I don't know of any bow, historical or otherwise that has a V-shaped tiller. At the best this bow is inefficient, at the worst it's downright dangerous. No, this is not a relationship counseling forum. It is in fact a forum dedicated to archery where some EXTREMELY KNOWLEDGEABLE folks have given you some very good advice to not shoot this poorly tillered bow any more, let alone give it to innocent bystanders to shoot. I know of at least one bowyer who LOST AN EYE when a bow blew up at full draw, FROM BEING OVERDRAWN, which you yourself mention having done with this bow. You mention at one point overdrawing this bow 9 inches past it's intended draw length! Some folks who know way more about bows are trying to give you some good advice which is this: Your bow is potentially unsafe. To continue shooting it yourself is, well it's your face. To let someone else shoot it is... negligent. There's the advice, take it or leave it.
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Ive always heard that the Leni Lenape aka Delaware natives of my area shot yellow birch bows 48" long, an inch wide all the way to the tips... uniform belly to back thickness.
I missed this post. But if that's how they made them, it sounds like you could make a replica just by ripping a board with 2 cuts on a table saw!