Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: medicinewheel on May 24, 2007, 04:53:05 pm
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hi everybody! - i started an ash selfbow from a stave i had for more than a year; the good thing is it's from a big tree and the back will be flat, the bad thing is it has 12-14 rings per inch. besides that, the wood seems perfect. i worked down one ring since i couldn't take off the bark without ring violation.
does that sound good enough for a bow 68" ntn with a 29" pull?
i plan on using try heat for reflexing it and steam for light recurves; how much reflex should i work into it??
maybe i violated the ring at one little spot, i'll check by daylight tomorrow; should i sinew that spot or is it good enough to use a rawhide backing, which i wanted to do anyway???
any help is welcome!
frank
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Frank, With a raw hide backing you shouldn't have to worry about a slight violation of the grain. I haven't worked much with ash with the proper width and length(68" should be fine) thinner rings should be OK. Keep the belly flat. 2" to 3" of reflex should be enough for a flat or slightly reflexed finished bow. With the recurved tips you don't want to stress the belly too much with too much reflex.
Maybe someone that knows something about ash will chine in. ;D Pat
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should i sinew that spot or is it good enough to use a rawhide backing, which i wanted to do anyway???
frank
I hope you didn't mean sinew in just that spot. either sinew the entire thing or none. It would create a stiff spot that would be a tillering nightmare. I don't think that is what you meant, but if I don't make sure I will feel real bad if that is what you meant and I didn't say something. Justin
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thanks pat! - that sounds pretty much how i imagined i could go...
thanks justin! - yes i DID think of just that one spot, but it's totally logical what you are saying....it's simply the best place to collect important info fast!!!
frank
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Or you could take off another ring, it's not too difficult with ash. It wasn't easy to see which was the violation in the photo. If you've cut into the white layer slightly, I wouldn't worry - the white layers are the tough ones.
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the grain on that piece looks like it might be running off to the side a bit so rawhide would be ideal. ash is a great bow wood. i think the most important factor with ash isnt how many rings you have but the size of the spring growth. if its very porous the bow will take quite a bit of set if its too heavy. ive built ash bows that looked like they should draw 80lbs and only hit 40 and visa versa.
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You do have several violations in that picture, Frank and that is a small part of the stave. I urge caution. Reflexing, recurving coupled with a 29 in draw is asking a lot of that stave. I would back it too. May be skip the reflex. Jawge
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Iam with Jawge on this......................bob
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Look at the black grain line on the left side of the stave. You can see that it is not running parallel to the stave like Jamie said. With that and the grain violations, I would definitely listen to George. Of course I would listen to George anyway, ;D but especially in this case. Justin
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hi everybody!
@george: no that's not the violation shown in that picture, that was the edge between the first and second ring. the violation is very little and couldn't be seen on a photo at all. i'm really not shure whether it's there or not. i will be very carefull with the reflex (i rather skip the recurve, want to try heat-treating the belly) for the 29" draw: the stave is 71" long at all, think i should make the bow longer than 68" ntn?
@simon: i thought of taking down another ring, too, but it's very little and only in the white. i'll definitly back it with rawhide.
@justin: yes the grain runs diagonal, that mentioned black line comes in on one side and runs out of the stave 18" down on the other side.
in general: i know that's not the finest piece of wood, i see this bow more as training ground for several osage and yew staves waiting in line to become bows ;D ...but anyway i will do what i can to make it the best possible bow!
i aim for 45-50" at the 29"draw.
for now, thanks everybody!
frank
ps: should i apply the rawhide on the finished bow or after floor-tillering??
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immediately
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If I was worried about the back I would do it as soon as it is laid out,before bending it at all. :) :)
Pappy
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so i understand i rough-out 68" ntn bow, heat-bend it into 2"-3" of reflex, apply the rawhide, start tillering and go for a flat belly?!
what i above meant with 'recurve' is rather like a bit more of reflex at the tips that i would want to leave stiff. if that sums up to 3"-4" of reflex, would that be to much??
i'd say the springwood ratio is okay.
frank
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That would probably be OK.I would let the tip bend a little if I was going for a 29 in. draw.In
other words not make them Static but let the work some. :)
Pappy
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that's what i thought!
should i curve the tips with dry heat, too??
frank
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I have had bad luck recurving the tips on White wood with dry heat,I would boil or steam.
Not to say it can't be done successfully but I haven't had any luck at it.It always flakes up on the belly ,Bad.Haven't tried Ash my experience has been with Hickory. :)
Pappy
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If it is a 71" bow, I would leave it that long. The extra couple of inches will make it a lot more forgiving. I like steam to do the tips and dry heat for the limb reflex. Take the tiller nice and slow. If you get any resemblance of a hinge in that limb that runs out. At 29" it could blow really easy. I had a guava with run out grain like that. I silk backed it, and it still blew on the grain run out. It showed no sign of a hinge, but 29" puts a lot of pressure on any piece of wood. Justin
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Frank this is a white ash board 1/2" thick that I used dry heat on. Not an extreme recurve but it went
I didn't think it was going to work but it eventually got hot enough and they bent, go real slow if you try it.
I reflex ash on the caul always now helps reduce the set and make sure the wood is dry, damp ash takes lots of set.
Good luck
Dana
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again: thanks everybody for the great help!
i will tiller the bow slowly anyway, because i always had the best results doing so. i started roughing out the bow with handtools today and figured it's certainly not the best piece of wood. but hey...
i shortend each limb ('piked' that is i learned just recently ;D ) by half an inch just to get a clear cut at the ends. i also will not go for 29" draw, 27", maybe 28". it's a learning project.
yes dana, that's the sort of recurve i meant. and i'll use steam for bending.
i'll keep you guys posted.
frank
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it's going to be the first flat-bellied bow .... well: life is for learning, right?!
hey guys! - i worked on the fadeouts a bit and found that i did not really know what they are supposed to be shaped like, how long they should be and what's a good way and good tools to do the job.
any recommendations here???
frank
ps: the thickness at the fadeout is by far not even yet. that's why the grain looks weird
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Leave them just like that until you start to tiller. You can thin them down to make the fades bend more when you are tillering. Justin