Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Shooting and Hunting => Topic started by: bucksbuoy on March 06, 2011, 01:40:27 pm
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I found this youtube video that proves the point that you must use a heavy arrow when hunting. This guy shoots a dead hog with a 70 lb. compound and a lighter weight arrow and gets 2 inches of penetration. This is what commercial archery retailers dont want you to know. Lighter arrows are faster and more accurate but utterly worthless for hunting. Watch this and try to imagine doing it with a 50 lb. self bow and a trade point.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZ1Mg0a7Tpw&feature=feedrec_grec_index
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Lighter arrows are faster and more accurate but utterly worthless for hunting.
Nope, heavier arrows are actually much more accurate. Even from compounds. They're less affected by wind and rain and, absorbing more of a bow's energy, leave less energy for handshock or vibration which helps hold steady during follow through.
Moral of the story: heavy arrows are just better ;D
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Can't argue with that Kegan!
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Love the way he disparages the "3D setup" shooters. You can shoot 3D cape buffalo all year long and brag about how great a hunter you are. But the first day in the field under real hunting conditions and something is gonna be scaping you out from between his hooves that evening.
I read thru some of the comments posted below the video and was surprised to see someone bragging about what their Rage broadhead did to a 100 lb hog. If you are gonna hunt piglets the Rage mechanical broadheads are fine, but Ashby's report shows 100% failure of Rage broadheads on big game! If I owned the patent for Rage, I'd quietly let it die of embarassment.
I'm starting to think that mercury filled aluminum 2114 shafts with single bevel two blade might be the secret to hogs!
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mercury filled eh? sounds dangerous ;)
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My heavy aluminum arrows shoot much better than the light carbon ones i began with several years ago.
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How about sand filled???
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meet you in the Middle and buy the Weighted Inserts for your Arrows...lot safer!! As for Heavy Arrows...they are more Accurate..absorb more energy...but are much slower...thats the Only drawback...I shoot 580-600 grains out of my Stick Bows...but my Compound has never let me down with my Carbon Express CXL 250 Arrows...and G5 Broadheads...never not had a complete pass through...and massive Bleed Outs...but then I will not take an IFFY Shot either...they will walk...if it aint a Definite Kill Shot...JMO
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I'm afraid that someone in the compound community is going to latch on to the heavier arrow idea and then the idea will be spawned that iffy shots are now ok becaue you get better penetration. Heavier arrows are just part of the solution. The need is for better ethics, more practice, knowledge of game physiology, bowhunter education and so on. It's all part of the current shortcut mentality, something this forum fights tooth and nail against.
I for one appreciate all that the people in this forum post on hunting. I started hunting big game when I turned 40 (now 48) and I got a lot of catching up to do. The biggest thing I have learned is that skipping the shortcuts pays off!
Thanks.
-john
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I shoot light carbon arrows out of my glass bows and never had a problem sticking hogs through both sides using single blade, sharp as hell broadheads in the 125 grn range. Then again, I'm shooting 60-65# bows and most of my shots are off my knees at around 5 to 8 yards. ;D Oh yea, ask James Parker about cleaning his first 200#+ boar hog with a shield over 3" thick. 8)
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I don't think heavy arrows will catch on in the compound crowd for a while. I think there is a big push to have the first 400 fps bow.
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I'm with you David, that is all I hear when I talk to buddies about their compounds. All they talk about is whse bow is faster, and how much faster it is than one of my bows. That's when I tell them that my .300 WM is faster then their bows and shoots farther. >:D
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I'm with you David, that is all I hear when I talk to buddies about their compounds. All they talk about is whse bow is faster, and how much faster it is than one of my bows. That's when I tell them that my .300 WM is faster then their bows and shoots farther. >:D
Good answer for those that think speed is the end-all and be-all of archery.
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Yo know compounders if your not shooting 3oo grain and 300 fps your not in the click. And most don't care about much else.
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Just because you shoot carbons doesn't mean you can't have a beefy arrow either, they don't have to be broom handle woodies, or aluminum bolts to get superior penetration.
I have about 3 full sets of carbons all tuned for different set ups ranging in wt. from 480-495-512 grain weights for different wt. bows. The least I shoot is 9 grains per pound of draw weight and up to 11 gpp for the heavier bows.
My CX Predators have 100 gr. brass inserts with 100gr. Magnus Stinger or Buzzcut up front.
My Gold Tips have a 25gr. 2117 aluminum footing with 125gr. Magnus Snuffer up front.
And lastly the Arrow Dynamics arent' footed yet, but fly awesome with either of the two broadheads mentioned above and all thump with authority.
Momentum Kills, Not Speed!
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Its an interesting topic. On the one hand, from the physics pov, it seems pointless to me to argue with Sir Isaac Newton and 300 years of appllied physics. On the other, given most of our setups (eg. 50# bows w/ 20" power stroke on up), 10 gpp (500 grain arrows) are more than sufficient for whitetails. Marginal hits are gonna be a problem regardless, and even momentum only mitigates by a small measure. There's just too much going on, animal could move, etc. lots of stuff can happen such there are no guarantees. You gotta bite the bullet, make your best effort, and best case scenario really have your tracking skills up to snuff to help avoid lost game.
Imho folks would do better trading a little arrow mass (within reason, say down to no less than 9 gpp on selfbows, 7 w/ glass) for better trajectory. When you get out to and past 25 yards (yes, I know nobody shoots past 17 yards), it's a lot harder for me to shoot the mark. I can shoot the line ok, but at random ranges a few inches of drop can make a big difference. Obviously for marginal setups, kids or ladys making 40# and 20" power stroke or less, you gotta get what gains in efficiency you can with heavier arrows. And it's obvious to everybody, or should be, limit the range as well. This helps with compensate for the more arcing trajectory.
Yes, I know folks who shoot "instintively" don't need to know about trajectory. They don't have to aim or estimate range. I appretiate the argument. I practice it to some degree as well. For example I see the arrow, but I don't make an effort to place it at a particular point of aim, make a "sight picture" like "gap" shooting, or as with a rifle. But somewhere between your ears you DO see the arrow (admittedly peripherally regardless of what you "focus on"), you DO compensate for range, you DO aim. That your conscious mind doesn't appreitate, register, recognize, recall the particulars isn't all that interesting to argue, to me. Perception is a stange thing, frequently not as accurate as we assume, and unfortunately in most cases reality despite accuracy.
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I am certain that no matter the weight, speed, diameter, or trajectory of the arrow.. shot placement far outweighs any other factor. four inches of penetration in the heart lung area will kill most creatures. but in the shoulder, ham etc it wont. just my opinion on the subject. shoot what u feel confident with, shoot it often and shoot it well, and your results will be better than if you just buy a faster bow.
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Yes, I would agree that somewhere around the 9 gpp would be my personal cut off point for the lightest arrow I would hunt with.
The best way to up the anty in your favor would be to shoot a heavier bow, and yet a heavier arrow but still within 9-10 gpp of arrow weight to bow weight ratio. That seems to be the magic numbers.
Of course like guys have already said, no bow or arrow no matter how fast or flat shooting will compensate for a piss poor shot on an animal. A gut shot is still a gut shot no matter how fast it gets there or blows through the other side.
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My arrows are 600 gr. carbons. I use a 250 gr. head to bring the spine down and the weight up. I use these from any bow I have that will shoot them bareshafted, which is around 60-70# (which luckily is my comfortable range with a bow). I don't care so much about gpp as the actual arrow itself and its flight. My hybrids really send them sizzling, especially the current 70# I'm using, and my selfbows really put them to the spot I'm looking too. Switch a razor sharp STOS broadhead in for the field point and I'm confident that if given a shot within my comfortable range I can make meat. I've tested this very arrow set up on a freshly killed button buck through the shoulder and even a 45# at 25" put it through the boiler room and poked out the other side.
The arrow really is what kills, so as long as the bow does its job of sending it on its way as it should, there's no reason to worry about it [the bow]. So long as the arrow weighs enough to get the job done, then the gpp rule can be put on the back burner... unless your bow blows up >:D