Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => English Warbow => Topic started by: fishfinder401 on March 26, 2011, 01:03:28 am
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i got Pat B's ash stave in the mail today and got to work right away on it, here is the before and after pictures ;D
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ok........ thats not the actual bow, thats just a piece i took of the belly ;D, its actually alot more affective than i thought it would be
small birds and rodents of all kinds beware >:D, i have a new bow and im itching to use it >:D ;D
noel
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Noel, that is a very good way to determine if a specific piece of wood will make a bow.
I'll let the experts help you with this bow and sit back and watch. I know I'll be soaking up info and maybe I can contribute also.
Good luck with your bow. If I didn't think you could do it, I wouldn't have sent you the stave! ;)
Pass it on! 8)
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I almost threw a fit till I saw your next post. That stave looks excellent. What draw weight are you going for? Dimensions?
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I almost threw a fit till I saw your next post. That stave looks excellent. What draw weight are you going for? Dimensions?
im going for 120@32 unless i heat treat the belly then i might try for like 140, but i don't want to experiment with heat treating on such a nice stave so probably the 120is mark , im not sure of dimensions, but it will be around 75 long and im thinking a modified elb design, slightly shallower and wider, not sure though, i want to get other opinions before i cut into it ;D
thanks for the interest
noel
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That is a very nice stave that has been seasoning for 3 or 4 years and has good even rings. It was given to me by the son of a friend(Tom B on PA) that passed away last year from a brain tumor. I wrote an article in the last issue of PA about our community coming together to build a memorial archery sety to present to Patrick(Tom's son) in Tom's memory.
I haven't worked enough ash to be helpful and especially not with a war bow. With patience(remember that? ::) ) and you will get lots of info from these guys here in the War Bow section. 8)
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I look forward to seeing the progression, Alan had a table of dimensions in his guide.
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That was a nice gesture Pat.
I'm looking forward to seeing what comes out of that stave too.
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fishfinder401, sounds like a plan. I haven't worked with ash but I think you'd rather have a really nice 120#er than try for something heavier and have it not come out. Can't wait to see what you do with it.
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thanks everyone for your encouragement ;D, now especially after hearing where it came from, i want to do this stave justice and make a amazing bow out of it ;D, who knows, while im making it, if a piece big enough for an arrow comes off, i think that would be fitting to have for it.
i might be getting ahead of myself, but what would be a good waterproof coating, i usually use linseed oil, but i don't have as much experience as most people here, also would horn nocks be a good idea, and if so, should i get some of the premade ones you can buy, or should i hand craft them
thank you everyone especially Pat B
noel
PS: Pat, if possible, i would like to put something towards that memorial archery set you mentioned putting together
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Noel, the set has already been made and presented to Patrick. Check out the Feb/Mar 2011 issue of PA Magazine, pg. 46 to be exact..."Our Community Shines".
I use Tru Oil on most of my bows. It is a gun stock finish made from linseed oil and other oils and dryers.
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darn, i would have liked to be a part of that :(, hope he liked it ;D, what my dad has used to coat some woods sounds like that, he mixes linseed oil, paint thinner and i think polyurethane and wipes the excess off before it dries on the top, does that sound like it would work?
thanks
noel
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I think jaro says he makes his his ash warbows a bit more oval of a cross section than d. All the couple ash longbows (not warbows, longbows, :) ) I have made have taken pretty bad set, so next time I personally will not use a slightly shallow oval cross section again on an ash longbow. But I would definitely take jaros word after seeing the very nice warbows he pops out. I have heard ash can chrysals pretty bad on the other hand, and have had it chrysal on me. But then again I remember a 120# @ 32" ash warbow a guy on paleoplanet made, looked like it shot ridiculously fast. Will definitely be following this...
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I think jaro says he makes his his ash warbows a bit more oval of a cross section than d. All the couple ash longbows (not warbows, longbows, :) ) I have made have taken pretty bad set, so next time I personally will not use a slightly shallow oval cross section again on an ash longbow. But I would definitely take jaros word after seeing the very nice warbows he pops out. I have heard ash can chrysals pretty bad on the other hand, and have had it chrysal on me. But then again I remember a 120# @ 32" ash warbow a guy on paleoplanet made, looked like it shot ridiculously fast. Will definitely be following this...
what shape do you think works best, ill take any opinions on this, i'm defiantly leaning towards a slightly flattened oval shape mabey a 2-3 ratio of hight to depth mabey 2-1/2 wide by 1-2/3 deep, ill have to seee what the wood like when i get there and see what its trying to tell me ;D
noel
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i am going to start shaping the stave so i was wondering what other people thought for dimensions and shapes
i wont be getting close to looking like the final shape for another day or two, depends on how late i'm willing to stay up
thanks for the time and input
noel
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sorry one last thing, i was wondering how would i go about stenciling something onto the back of this bow, becasue when its done, i want to try to put the elvish writing on the ring from lord of the rings in gold paint, or should i just paint by hand, i was thinking having it on each limb
thanks
noel
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ok, scrap the idea of the elvish on it, my hand is not skilled or steady enough for that right now, but i think i found a good finish, have any of you heard of it? heres a picture of the stave after i split a large splinter off the side, a little closer to final dimensions than i wanted, but ill take it, and a cool curl that happened while i was working on it( t may not be that impressive, but @ 2am, i was pretty happy) but this ash sure loves to curl. also i have a picture of the end grain, the color is a little off so i could make it a little more noticeable
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here is where the stave ended up and unless it can regenerate ( at which point i will be either very happy ;D( more staves) or very scared :'()
it looks like it will end up around 1-3/4 inches wide at the handle, and im thinking ill do around 1 inch thick, maybe a little more
thanks for looking, unfortunately, this might be it for the weekend as i have alot of work for tomorrow :'(
noel
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I think the slightly wider flatter profile that you suggested is a good idea for Ash.
I think heat treating the belly is prob going to be necessary if your American Ash is anything like our UK stuff.
For those heavy weights I think you'll need to get a short string on ASAP, mind, getting a string onto it can be a right battle even on a lower draw weight ELB at the early stages.
Good luck, and don't worry if you get a bit of string follow.
Ill follow the thread with interest.
Del
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Noel, if I may suggest... you should work on the situation at hand and stop trying to decide how to decorate a bow that may not even be successful. I'm not doubting your ability to build a bow but think if you take this one well placed step at a time you will have a better chance of success. Also, I don't accept your impatience as an excuse. It is a symtom of possible failure.
You have achieved a good back ring. Now you are asking for suggestions but seem unwilling to wait for an answer. You are dealing with a 24 hour cyber world and the folks that are more knowlegable of this type of bow are at least 6 hours away so it takes them time to answer your questions. I know you are anxious to build this bow but you have lt crawl before you can walk!
Impatience and the inability to take positive suggestions will kill your bow before you have a chance to unwrap it potential. Use this stave to build a successful 100# war bow and learn the methods and techniques to do so. There are lots more varietied of wood that would be more appropriate for a 120# bow or a 300# bow( ??? ) but without the experience and correct methods you are setting yourself up for failure and disappointment.
This is a special stave in that it belonged to a deceased friend of mine but it is only a piece of wood! It will be a great memorial to my friend Tom when your well tillered war bow is built...but it is just a piece of wood and even the best, well seasoned bowyers out there will tell you that there is no guarentee it will be successful. They will also tell you that there is a certain steps and method and a limit to what this wood, and any wood for that matter, can successfully achieve.
Step back, take a deep breath and think thoroughly about every step you take while tillering this bow. You have the best wood bow and war bow folks in the world at your finger tips so use your brain to take advantage of the wealth of knowledge that is yours for the taking.
I have heard nothing but encouraging words from this wonderful group of folks. Do them the courtacy of accepting what they have to say and implimenting it to build a successful bow; their only reward for their imformation.
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Pat those are GREAT words of wisdom
Noel, i hope you take Pats words of wisdom to heart and follow them.
like the old saying say "patience is a virtue" and for us bowyers it is also a very important tool.
i have been building bows for three years now.when i first started i was like most and wanted to pump out bow after bow.
after a few failures i realized it is much better to take my time and pay attention to the wood i am working with.
personally i think some of this comes from the generation he has grown up in
seems like this modern generation(my sons included)
they want it and they want it right now
it is what they have come accustomed,and thats wht they expect from life now
sorry to say another old saying is still true to this day,especially in our hobbies
"good things come to those that wait"
it takes me weeks and weeks and weeks to make a bow now,also i have fewer failures now than before
my trade bow im making was begun the day i got my trade persons name
i dont even have it to floor tillrer as of yet,and its been a month already
i figure if i work on it everyday for the next couple of weeks i might have it to floor tiller by then
but i also dont spend hours every night working on it
i only spend about 1-2 hours a day on it
then i stop and give my mind and eyes a rest untill the next day
sometimes it best to stop and wait untill your mind and eyes are fresh again
and only go one step at a time
like Pat said,your already wanting to know what to do for decorating it and its not even a bow yet
when your mind starts to wander like that when your working on it,its time to stop for the day/night
if you continue to work on it and your thinking 10 steps ahead of where your at
thats when you will miss something here or there that could make the differance from a "shooter" to "one for the corner of shame"
take your time,there is definatly a very nice bow in that stave
just be patient and help it come out
after its done and shot in well,then its time to think about decorating it ;)
just my $.02 worth
good luck
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Great words of wisdom indeed. These guys have been around :) My dad always told me that too - Good things come to those who wait.
In my experience though, I find it very beneficial to be thinking 10 steps ahead. In fact when building or creating something, I usually go through all the steps in my head before even starting. This usually saves me from running into dead-ends, and saves me having to drop so many f-bombs :)
I think planning is the first key to a successful project. And then patience while carrying out that plan comes second.
Don't push that wood too hard! Tiller slow and be on the lookout for set. That's your warning flag that you're expecting to much.
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How come you guys never give me advice this good! Kidding. But in all seriousness this is book worthy advice. We often think of techniques and tools for making bows but what's being discussed here is the most important part of being a successful bowyer. Being a college student, I can't wait to come home and make a bow. Then when I'm actually in the process of doing it I get so excited that I forget what I'm doing and mess up the bow. This has happened to me on many occasions but I think I'm getting more of a handle on it in my old age ;).
Noel, take your time and make this a successful bow. Anyone would love to have a stave that great so make sure you put it to good use. If we had a 24 hour news feed where we could constantly see your progress on this bow, you could easily be a mindless robot and the people here could walk you through literally every scrape on this bow. Wait for the advice. Its good stuff.
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thanks for all the wisdom everyone is passing on, and don't worry, all of the decorating thought were either hours before i started ( mainly based of an impulse i had for a few minutes) or once i was done for the night and looking through some finishes. i defiantly see what you are all saying about patience, and that is something i am trying to wrok on, i actually stopped workingwhen i did becasue i saw myself rushing too much and didn't want to make a mistake
thanks for the help ;D
noel
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i just realized, what about using one of those mini propane burner/stoves to heat treat the belly, i havent done it before so im not sure if it would be too much or too little
thanks for the help ;D
noel
PS: im not trying to get ahead of myself, just want to make sure i have a plan
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http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/HOT-AIR-HEAT-GUN-2000W-PAINT-STRIPPER-/110653551224?pt=UK_Home_Garden_PowerTools_SM&hash=item19c3773278#ht_1078wt_758
But in your country
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ok, 1 last thing,trying no to get ahead of myself, but i was trying to figure out what to do for a tip and i was wondering, what about turning a nock the shape of traditional horn nocks out of ebony, i have a good lathe and the tools for it and i think it wood look cool
i dont know allot about ebony, so any input would be welcomed as usual even suggestions of other types of wood i could use for this, maybe ipe?
thanks
noel
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I've never worked with ebony so I don't know it's properties. I imagine it you have a good grain orientation it would work. For now, leave your tips a little wide and use temporarl side grooves for the string nocks.
Cam, if you don't know much about wood bow building it is hard to think 10 steps ahead without confusing yourself. For a beginner I think it is important to take one step at a time and when completed go to the next step and so on until the job is completed. Thinking about the finish for your "bow" before you have even cut the stave to shape is too big of a step and clouds the issues at hand.
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I've never worked with ebony so I don't know it's properties. I imagine it you have a good grain orientation it would work. For now, leave your tips a little wide and use temporarl side grooves for the string nocks.
Cam, if you don't know much about wood bow building it is hard to think 10 steps ahead without confusing yourself. For a beginner I think it is important to take one step at a time and when completed go to the next step and so on until the job is completed. Thinking about the finish for your "bow" before you have even cut the stave to shape is too big of a step and clouds the issues at hand.
pat i think you and cam both have valid points, on one hand, you don't want to get ahead of yourself, but you also want a plan for what you will do
thanks for the input
noel
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http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/HOT-AIR-HEAT-GUN-2000W-PAINT-STRIPPER-/110653551224?pt=UK_Home_Garden_PowerTools_SM&hash=item19c3773278#ht_1078wt_758
But in your country
i found 1 like that just now, those are allot cheaper than i thought they would be ;D
that might be an option now
thanks
noel
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if i heat treat the belly, could i get away with a more d profile, still not a true elb shape, but maybe closer, and for the tips, how about either 1 or 3/4 across,
thankyou
noel
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Heat-treating wood will not make it more elastic. Keep the width down to 1 1/2" at the centre and make the shape a flattened D cross section. Also make it at least 76" long for a 32" draw
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i heard this type of ash is already elastic, i was thinking it would help with the set problems i have heard about, but its 75 long, so i think i can make it ;D
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This thread reminds me of the old joke about the tourist driving around Ireland. He gets lost and stops to ask the way...
" Ah to be sure, If I were you I wouldn't start from here..." ::)
But back to one of the questions, I wouldn't try making traditional ELB horn nocks out of any wood, I'd think the risk of splitting is far too high. Even horn has grain but it's much more homogenous than any wood.
Waterbuffalo horn is pretty cheap and easy to get hold off (well it is in the UK), failing that, an Ebony tip overlay would look really cool.
I did a V narrow light weight Ash ELB for someone at the club who is just starting out, I didn't want to put in too much work so I did WB horn tip overlays, I heat treated the belly to keep the weight up and set down as it had ended up V narrow and underweight due to finding a crack in the stave late on in the process. It looked nice in the end and I named it the Needle :)
Bow making is great for teaching patience and humility... I was always a cocky impatient young git.
I'm now just a cocky impatient old git who has learned when to step back ;D
Del
PS.
There is a good pdf download on making Ash ELBs from Alan Blackhams backstreet bowyer site. Some of it will be stuff you know, but there is some great stuff about exactly the sort of bow you are trying to make.
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At what point do you primitive bowyers start heat treating..
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I generally heat treat anytime after floor tiller but before the bow is stressed too much.
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nice to know that wood tips wouldn't work that way :) before i tried it, besides a little work reducing it a little, i wont get much done until the weekend, so i have a week to gather information
and thanks for letting me know about that site, i think i have seen it before, but didnt relize it was for ash, so that helps so much more than you could realize, especially with dimensions given
thanks for the help everyone ;D i really appreciate it and value all your opinions
noel
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Ill be watchinggggg :o good luck fish some great advise on here as said earlier by pat and dad I might need to go back and read it now and again to keep my self in bow building check, I sometimes have the urge to want to hurry allong. Also on the heat gun I think I got mine for 12 dollars at harbor freight and it seems to be holding up well and I have put some hrs on it too :o Gets pretty cold down in the dungen ;D and most of the wood I seem to gather needs lots of heat straightening. Good luck
Josh
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the one im looking at is probably the same one at my local harbor freight ;D
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the one im looking at is probably the same one at my local harbor freight ;D
Good investment ;)
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i wen to alan's website and the dimensions o got were 38cm wide/ 28 thick at handle, and 18/18cm at tips, this seems very small for a bow of this weight, but i don't have as much experience, what do you guys think of this. he also days heat treating wont help
i will be hopefully getting down close to these dimensions tonight with a caffeine pill in one hand and many a tool in the other >:D
any input is welcomed, o wont get it down to those dimensions just yet, and will leave room for adjustment
thanks
noel
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fish i think you have your metric measurements wrong
if its 18 cm at the tips,thats 7" wide
thats gona make for a whole lot of hand shock i would think
i think you meant to say 18mm,which is just under .75" at the tips
;)
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fish i think you have your metric measurements wrong
if its 18 cm at the tips,thats 7" wide
thats gona make for a whole lot of hand shock i would think
i think you meant to say 18mm,which is just under .75" at the tips
;)
ya thats what i meant ;D, does that sound reasonable? the warbows i have made so far all have been osage flat bow styles, so this design is new to me
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i just marked out those dimensions on the stave and they look more appropriate than i thought, i think i might go a little over that and while tillering and sanding get it down to that size, with the tips only being 18mm/18mm i think i might try to use deer antler for tips these are pictures of the ones im looking at now, they are from ebay and the description given is( Deer Antler Tips -2Pcs. Lot # 12 1 - 6 1/2" X 1 1/2" X 7/8" 1 - 4 3/4" X 7/8" X 3/4" Great For Knife Handles Walking Stick & Staff Handles Many Other Primitive & Craft Uses )
tell me what you think, they wouldn't be the full size of the ones pictured, i would of course shave them and cut them to shape
thanks
noel
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i would post a pic of what i did tonight, but this might be easier, just remove a few pounds of wood from my last pic, hopefully tomorrow it resembles a bow so i can post more pics
all i can say about tonight is wood and METAL go awesome together \m/ ;D\m/
noel
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Hey you know you can get antler at alot of pet stores? I found some. I dont know why. I guess a dog would enjoy chewing on an antler. Probably for the same reason my dog used to chew on my wall (somhow). Or my shoes. Or guitar. Or all electrical cords in the area not matter what you do to protect/make them out of reach... :)
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i actually thought i had seen some in the past ???, ill have to look next time, that might save me some money ;D
thanks
noel
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When you are ready for the horn tips I'll send you a pair of cow horn tips that you can make them with.
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Pat your willingness to help people out and give to people is really starting to supprise me less and less thats real nice of ya ;)
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When you are ready for the horn tips I'll send you a pair of cow horn tips that you can make them with.
you really are extremely generous pat, if only there wee more people like you around, this time i am at least paying for shipping
thank you
noel
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..You probably want to reduce your tips from 18/18mm... 12/12 is more than enough for a 120# ash. But start off with 18/18mm and just reduce until you are satisfied with it
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..You probably want to reduce your tips from 18/18mm... 12/12 is more than enough for a 120# ash. But start off with 18/18mm and just reduce until you are satisfied with it
ya, even though thats what the dimensions said, i like finding out for my self with that as a reference ;D, i also wouldn't mind go a little over 120 if the wood can handle it, if not ill find out once i start tillering
thanks
noel
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ok, its pretty much at its final shape, maybe a little off the belly, but im about to start tillering ;D ;D ;D
pat, the third picture is of a piece of the type of ash we have on out property, i know i have bark somewhere, when i find it ill post a pic
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Have you floor tillered it yet? Lets see some bending pics man. :D
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what are the deminshions now?
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Have you floor tillered it yet? Lets see some bending pics man. :D
barely, i think i have to remove some more on the belly, it feels like it coming in MUCH heavier than expected, should have it with some bending pics either later today or tommorow
what are the deminshions now?
tips are 16cm deep/ 17-1/2 cm wide, handle is 37cm wide and about 24cm deep
its also 74 long
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Im no good with metrics but the conversion chart im looking at says 16cm is just over 6 inches?
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Im no good with metrics but the conversion chart im looking at says 16cm is just over 6 inches?
oops, meant 16mm i seem to be doing that allot lately, have to make sure i don't on a physics test;D, if it was cm, then :o, my arms hurt thinking about it
noel
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Ya all I know is inches and feet lol so dont feel bad ;D
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the only reason im doing it that way is its easier to measure and be more accurate with small sizes ;D
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the only reason im doing it that way is its easier to measure and be more accurate with small sizes ;D
Ya copy that the most presice I go is 16ths unless im spining arrows then I get into 32nds :o Well keep up the good work
Josh
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i like yo use a difital caliper,it goes metric to .00,and sae to .000
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Ya copy that
Josh
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hmmmmmmmmmmm, me thinks someone had or does have a cb radio ;)
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hold on around another 1/2 hour and ill have some early stage tillering pics ;D ;D ;D, it all of a sudden feels right and perfect ;D
noel
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ok here are the tillering pics in a progression, i still have a far way to go, but its a start ;D
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That hurts my shoulders just looking at it. :D good work so far, can't wait to see it come around.
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this is soo scarry doing this with low ceilings :-[, i also learned to secure it to the stick with a rope because i was pulling down, directly underneath and it slid off :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(, ouch, directly onto my head, luckily iy was only around 30lb draw weight there ;D
noel
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The left limb looks pretty good but the right looks like it's bending more mid limb. What was the approx. draw weight at that distance?
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The left limb looks pretty good but the right looks like it's bending more mid limb. What was the approx. draw weight at that distance?
ya im trying to take that slight hinge out a little at a time to keep as uch weight as i can, im not exactly sure of the weight, as it stretches the tillering string too much to acuratly reed it. it at where im guessing it will be braced at, but my clossest estimate at the point its pulled to is around 50-60, which sounds right for the brace height of this weight bow, i might be wrong though on the weight, im not the most experienced as far as who many bows iv'e made
noel
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Looking good so far im sure you know how to remove a hinge so I wont comment on that,
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With all those tools in the background it looks like one of those spot the difference pictures.
I got it! the saw is missing in pic3..
Del
(You didn't go back and look did you >:D?)
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Fish I dont know if you have seen this but you may want to take a look kinda cool build http://paleoplanet69529.yuku.com/topic/43052 notice the size of this piece of wood as its being tillered :o
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Looking good. Take it slow and easy, you'll get it :)
Darcy
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did a little more tillering before dinner ;Di also have a picture of the back profile,
by the way, what would you guys suggest for a finish, i was reading and saw something on shellac, and i want to try it, but not sure where to get, or how well it would work ???
thanks noel
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fish I think the first thing you need to consintrate on is getting those limbs bending with an even arc and both limbs bending even then get that hog on a short string. I have never used shellac so I cant give ya any info on that except you can get it at most hardware paint sections but the finish is a long ways off and as others have said take one thing at a time as you have a ways before a finish will be applied . It looks like the right limb still has a small hinge in it from what I can see ??? so correct that first then make sure both limbs are pulling even. Are you pulling from the center of the string in the last pic? might just look off because of the angle that the picture was taken ??? I am sure someone with a better eye will weigh in here soon.
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Thats looking better, I don't know what your plan of action is but if it was me I would leave the tips alone until its braced now just remove a little from the right side of the centre.
Ash needs a water proof finish shellac is good, you can get plastic coat spray cans that work but it depends if you want to go a bit more traditional.
Well done keep it up
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dont worry elktraker, i want getting ahead of my self, just curious, i found a bottle on my dads work bench that said its for dissolving shellac, and i read the article on the PA homepage and got curious. i think the string is a little off center, but i think i do need a little off center right, and need to fix the hinge. pat b was going to send my some horn for the tips, so im going to wait to finish tillering before those go on. i think the weight is still a little high, but its close to 120, right now its at 50@13in, and gaining around 4lbs per inch.
thanks for helping with the tillering, ill also try to get a little straighter of pictures, the camera was at a little of an angel, so that might have some effect
noel
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dont worry elktraker, i want getting ahead of my self, just curious, i found a bottle on my dads work bench that said its for dissolving shellac, and i read the article on the PA homepage and got curious. i think the string is a little off center, but i think i do need a little off center right, and need to fix the hinge. pat b was going to send my some horn for the tips, so im going to wait to finish tillering before those go on. i think the weight is still a little high, but its close to 120, right now its at 50@13in, and gaining around 4lbs per inch.
thanks for helping with the tillering, ill also try to get a little straighter of pictures, the camera was at a little of an angel, so that might have some effect
noel
Worried cummon ;D I know you will do fine just sayin you got a ways to go yet ;) Keep up the good work and thanks for doing the build allong.
Josh
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She's coming around nicely, Noel. Take it slow! ;) Be sure you exercise her limbs between wood removals. You won't truely know how the string tracks until you get her to low brace. That is the end of phase one and the beginning of phase two! :o
A shellac and linseed oil mixture, French polish, was a traditional wood bow finish. I don't know what a traditional war bow finish would be though.
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I don't know what a traditional war bow finish would be though.
BLOOD >:D >:D >:D
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That would be the top coat Tim! :D
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Hows it going Noel...
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i will be posting more tonight ;D, I've had a busy week, birthday, friends, brothers friends, national honors society ceremony and the list goes on.........
i will post a few more tillering pics, and hopefully in the next few days a braced pic, pat b sent the horn for the tips so it will finnaly look like a warbow ;D
thanks for the interest
noel
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Noel, looks good to me, though I know very little about ELBs. Good luck with it. It's fun to watch your progress. I wish I'd started building bows at your age.
George
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anyone want to see the other project that is currently distracting me from this bow ;D,
i have vacation all this week so don't worry ill get time in on it and hopefully by the end of the week, have it braced ;D
noel
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Any progress? I'm really looking forward to seeing this one come out. ;D
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sorry about the stop in progress, ive had allot of home work, was making a new fishing rod, and ive also had to check out colleges, hopefully ill have some more progress shown. i should have the tips on soon, ive got them ruffly shaped and drilled out, i just need to cut the knocks and fit them to the bow. i also got some nice leather for the handle form an old suitcase ;D
noel
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So I'm guessing you've finished tillering? Where did she end up at?
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not finished tillering, ive done most of it with the long string, and im going to do the short string with the horn nocks on, because i dont want to cut too deep of temp nocks in and the string has already slipped once or twice and i have low ceilings so i don't want to chance it, ill actually post pics of the horn tips before i put grooves in it in a minute, should i do grooves before or after attachment?
thanks
noel
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ok. here are the tips so far, im not sure why it looks weird, it was the best of the pics i took though
noel
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I would totally shape the tips and cut the string grooves before I installed them on the bow. You will have to do a little smoothing out of the transition between the limb tip and horn after they are installed though.
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ok, good to know, now to find my nock cutting file, i swear i saw it a few days ago ???
noel
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ok, bought a new file, shaped the nocks and i just put on the glue ;D
ill hopefully have pics of it braced tomorrow when it is dried
thanks for looking
noel
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>:( by now the tips had enough time for the epoxie i used to set so i went to check how they looked >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( one of them looked like it wasn't on all the way, so i looked and sure enough, for some reason is scooted down around an eighth of an inch, luckily it wasn't completely dry so i could pull it off but this means i have to clean the tip, get out the epoxy and re epoxy it. i was really looking forward to bracing it tomorrow but it looks like that may not happen
noel
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ok, sorry for the delay, but hear in order is the top nock, bottom and most of the bow in comparison to an 8ft fishing rod i jsut recently completed( pats self on back ::))
i stilll havent strung it yet becasue i am a little nervous stringing for a first time ;) but once i do ill show
by the way would a maple backed oak combo work for a d belly warbow of around 80lbs, my brother wants to get back into archery and im going to build him one
thanks for looking
noel
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That's looking good, after all this we do need some full draw pictures, what is the weight?
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That's looking good, after all this we do need some full draw pictures, what is the weight?
right now i think two high ;), im having a hard time stringing so i will take some weight off it today so i can hopefully give you the weight and full draw
thanks
noel
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Are you using FF string?
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Are you using FF string?
i wish, right now its just a string made of nylon thread i have, it usually works well but i think once i get a little money ill get some D97, looks pretty good and allot cheaper than ff, just wish basspro sold it, i have 75 in gift cards
thanks
noel
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Nylon stretches way too much to be used as a bow string. Especially on a warbow. I use B-50 for my bows and used it for the last warbow I built and it stretched a lot before it settled in. I'd suggest trying to get a better material than nylon. A spool of B-50 shouldn't run you more than 10 bucks and just go with a few more strands.
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ya, im realizing the amount of stretch with this bow, which would be better, D97 or B50
thanks
noel
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B50 isn't a warbow string, you need FF depends on the weight as to how many strands 18/20 normally
a 2nd option would be d75 but I don't know how much that costs.
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i might just have to say goodbye to my money and get some ff :'(, it will be worth it, i hope :-\
as you can tell im very cheep
thanks
noel
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That's looking good, after all this we do need some full draw pictures, what is the weight?
right now i think two high ;), im having a hard time stringing so i will take some weight off it today so i can hopefully give you the weight and full draw
thanks
noel
Noel have you tillered the bow to full draw? The reason I ask is because you said once you get some weight off you will get it stringed and give the full draw? How are you trying to string the bow?. Did I miss tillering after you got the bow on a short string? Or are you still trying to get it on the short string for tillering? Sorry I was just confused I thought maybe I missed something or part of the build ???
Josh
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don't worry you didn't miss something, when i said i was going to do those things i didn't mean all at once, i am going to take some weight off, tiller on a short string then hopefully get the full draw pics. the way i am stringing is by the double nocks i carved into the horn
sorry for the confusion
noel
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Ill say it again im not worried sorry I keep coming across to you that way, I was just curious thanks
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Ill say it again im not worried sorry I keep coming across to you that way, I was just curious thanks
i know our not worried, im just not good at wording hings and thats the first way that popped into my head :D
noel
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sorry for the dormant period, i finally ordered a spool of ff, it should be in by Thursday or Friday, so expect some short string action and maybe a braced picture in the near future
thanks for following this
noel
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ok, heres a draw to about 26ish inches, i think i need a little off the top, but please scrutinize away ;), i think it came in a little lighter than i would like, mabey 100 or a little more, but its a blast to shoot, the absolute fastest bow I've made yet ;D
thanks
noel
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so is that fast flight? I want more pictures unbraced, braced and a video if you dont mind >:D ;D just messin with ya ;) Is this finished then?
Josh
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yes, that is fast flight, its not done yet, but close, need some final tilllering, then sand and finish, i will get some pics and mabey a video up if i can, althouh it may not be for a week or two..........finals :'(
thanks
noel
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ok, i got it to around a 30 draw, the arrow is around 1120grains, heres a video of it ;D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9y8ettCAqqs
thanks
noel
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cool 8)
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here's the video, enjoy ;D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SJFxOU7R6A
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How many pounds is it at in this video? thanks for shareing 8)
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How many pounds is it at in this video? thanks for shareing 8)
my guess is around 100ish, i haven't put it to its full brace height, its still at around 5ish inches, so its going to hopefully pick some more weight and speed up once its at a brace height of 6-7inches
thanks
noel
by the way, today while at the new england primitive skills gathering, i put a bodkin over an inch into solid wood with it, and one split the bottom 1/4 in of a 4/4 off :o
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If you halt the vid at dull draw, it looks a bit whip ended and the lower limb is looking in danger of getting a tad hingy (at about 3/4 along the limb).
Del
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I athink Del has it.
If you stop the video at 5 seconds you get a good look at the tiller just before loose, the lower limb is stiff until a bit under 3/4 length when it appears to hinge. and then shows whip from there on.
I think you need to do more work on the lower limb while keeping clear of the hinge onwards.
Best of luck
Craig.
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Ditto to what Del and Craig have both said about the tiller. Also, the draw weight will not increase when you increase the brace height and nor will the speed. There is an optimal brace height for each bow depending on the length and style.
With regards to your shooting style, make sure you're getting that arrow all the way back. I see a few inches you could be getting an enemy with. ;D
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thanks for the advice, I've, been slowly getting rid of that hinge and will have it gone soon
this bow is soo fun to shoot ;D
noel
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It appears your bow has a hinge or the beginnings of a hinge on the bottom limb about a foot from the tip, and for the most of the bow it is flatish and not working enough. This could end up braking your bow. You can see this in your video if you pause it at full draw.
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i realized that once i saw the video, im going to work it out and hopefully post a new video soon
thanks for the advice
noel
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Hinge and stiff spots, I agree top limb looks great imo and it sounds like you are aware of these spots as indicated a couple posts ago and are working on them. Either way it looks like its shooting an arrow real well for ya and your enjoying it so thats the main thing! Not saying these tiller issues dont need addressed but I think you know that ;D ;)
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Noel, are you using a tiller tree while tillering so you can step back and look at the bend?
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a combination of tiller tree and having my brother take pictures while drawing, mostly because i don't feel safe having it draw in my basement which has very low ceilings. do know of any plans for a freestanding tiler tree i could use outdoors?
thanks
noel
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Tiller trees are a snap to make, and probably one of the best tools a bowyer can have (well, this bowyer anyway - I couldn't make a bow without one). If you want to make one, just drill or dig a hole about 4 feet deep and throw a 4x4 of treated lumber in and fill it in. Put a pully on the bottom, mark 1 inch increments on the post, and there's your tree. No plans necessary ;D
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wow, i feel stupid, i was thinking of makeing a elaborate strand to hold it instead of placing it in a hole :-[, genius, pure genius ;D
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My definition of primitive,,,"using what you have(in this case a brain) to get what you need!" ;D Also, think simple. I think most folks try to make this wood bow building stuff more complicated than they need to! ;)
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I made a portable tiller tree. A length of 2x2 with a block screwed in near the top and a pulley at the bottom. You can strap it to a convenient tree or fence post with rubber strapping, easy peasy.
The problem with digging a big holeversion is transporting the hole, I tried carrying one in my car but it just fell through the floor ::)
Del
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I made a portable tiller tree. A length of 2x2 with a block screwed in near the top and a pulley at the bottom. You can strap it to a convenient tree or fence post with rubber strapping, easy peasy.
The problem with digging a big holeversion is transporting the hole, I tried carrying one in my car but it just fell through the floor ::)
Del
del when you use the portable style you only transport half the hole ::) ;D O:)
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a combination of tiller tree and having my brother take pictures while drawing, mostly because i don't feel safe having it draw in my basement which has very low ceilings. do know of any plans for a freestanding tiler tree i could use outdoors?
thanks
noel
Noel, a lot of English professional bowyers tiller their bows upside down to the way people do it in the states, if using scales they hang the scales from a suitable beam, then hang the bow by the string from the scales and pull the bow downwards, either by hand or by a cord attached to a pulley system or winch etc. that way if the bow breaks instead of it flying upwards and into your ceiling it goes downward and impacts on the floor, which is of course much harder and more difficult to damage. May be worth trying if you want to work in the basement.
Craig.
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good idea, that might work ;D
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If you want to keep the pounds on this one, and also even out the tiller, I'm pretty sure the bow will survive even if you short it down an inch or two.. -And sorry if I should have remembered from earlier responds in this thread, but did you heat treat it?
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i didn't heat treat it, and if it comes in anywhere form around 90+ ill be happy, im going to go for a heavier one this summer from ipe and hickory, and i also have a nice hickory stave that im going to see what i can get out of it
thanks
noel
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sorry for taking so long, i finnaly had the drive to finish tillering and putting a finish on it ;D, it feels amazing, heavy, but not too heavy( haven't measured yet) it has a hand rubbed bees' wax finish
ill have pictures up later today
thanks for your patience and advice
noel
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pics please ;D I bet it turned out nice :)
Josh
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sorry about that time has been getting away from me this summer ;)
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so...... ryoon wheres my money ;D
ill have full draw tomorrow when someone else is awake
btw, thank you again pat for the wood, this is my favorite bow right now, it shoots nice, little hand shock, fast and light, i haven't weighed it yet, but my guess is 80-90, the other day i shot it around 225 yards
thanks for the patience everyone and all the help, it really was invaluable
noel
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Nice job with the horn nocks. What kind of finish did you use? NO FULL DRAW?! That's the money shot! ;D
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i tried using a hand rubbed beeswax finish, but this summer went from close to 100 and humid on day to dry the next to oppressive humidity, and so on( we actually set a new high temp for my area)
thanks
noel
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That looks really nice fish! You can almost divine the tiller from the braced profile. Really nice!
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heres the full draw, this is to about 30ish, i don't like pulling the full 32 without an arrow, in case i go to far
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Nice job Fish! I bet it shoots real nice! Well done!
Josh
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Nice tiller on that :).
Del
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Noel, you have done good my friend. Keep it up!!! 8)
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Noel, I did not realize you had really finished...excellent work ! I think the tiller turned out pretty good
and the horn nocks did too.Congratulations.
Lane
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thanks ;D
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The problem with digging a big holeversion is transporting the hole, I tried carrying one in my car but it just fell through the floor ::)
Del
A friend in North Dakota had a welldriller go 1,800 ft deep without hitting water. I bought the dry well, pulled it up and cut it in 24" lengths and sold it as brand new pre-dug post holes to some city folks, they never knew it was used hole! I still have some left over and can sell lengths pretty cheap because they weigh next to nothing and are inexpensive to ship.
Fishhead, nice bow. I'd have never guessed white ash would hold up to that kind of draw weight! Good for you!