Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Catnapper on June 14, 2011, 11:03:57 pm
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Hey everyone I have a question. While trying to recurve a piece of osage I broke a tip off. After trimming the other side to match I ended up with a 48 ntn piece of wood. It is 1.25" wide to mid limb then tapers to 1/2" nocks. It has a 4" stiff handle with 2" fades. My question is is it even possible to make this shorty into a decent hunting weight bow or should I just start over?
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Hey catnapper, got any pics of whats going on ?
I think you might be able to get it bending through the handle, put some pin nocks on it and be able to get a hunting weight bow out of it. If any wood can do it, Osage can, i'm no "expert" so take it for what it worth ;)
Love to see some pics :)
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I will try to get some pics posted but it won't be for a day or two since my computer kicked the bucket. (my phone won't let me post pics.) I was thinking I might have to make a bendy handle also. It will be a first for me. It does currently have a bit of deflex heated into it. (from the original bow design.)
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I would try and deflex it right out of the handle and then reflex or recurve the tips about even with the back of the bow. Might be a bit narrow for 50# at that length but I think it stands a fair shot of pulling it off.
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I'd do as Steve said and raise you one, "bend in the handle" ;)
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I'm liking all of these ideas! Now for the next question. Assuming all else goes smooth what is the maximum draw length I can expect to achieve?
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Splice some tips in. You can make it any length you want.
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Under ideal circumstances and perfect tiller you should be able to get1/2 the overall length as your draw length. With a sinew back probably a bit more.
How did you break the tip of an osage stave? ???
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I was working not too long ago on a really nice 64" osage recurve. One tip bent perfectly...the other not so much. In the end, I was left with a stave too short for much. So, I did just as PatM suggested and built this little siyahed recurve for my brother in law. I used 1/4 sawn ash for the siyahs, a simple tapered butt joint, and Urac. I then wrapped the joints with linen thread and saturated them with glue. It turned out to be a fast, smooth, sweet shooter.
(http://i984.photobucket.com/albums/ae321/isaacscr/Justins%20Custom%20Osage%20Siyahed%20Static%20Recurve/HPIM4469.jpg)
(http://i984.photobucket.com/albums/ae321/isaacscr/Justins%20Custom%20Osage%20Siyahed%20Static%20Recurve/HPIM4452-1.jpg)
(http://i984.photobucket.com/albums/ae321/isaacscr/Justins%20Custom%20Osage%20Siyahed%20Static%20Recurve/HPIM4453-1.jpg)
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That is a nice looking bow! Mine started out as a 60 inch bow. It is my first time trying to bend wood with heat and I think I may have over cooked it and got it to brittle. It snapped off six inches of the tip. I am new to bow making so there may have been other errors as well. Haha but I'm gonna stick with because I love the looks of all the osage recurves I see posted. I'm determined get one under my belt. LOL ( even though my girlfriend is disgruntled with the amount of money I spend on osage)
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I think you can get closer to 26". If it was me I'd go for 28" ;)
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Nope.. fix it up.. with splices.. Heres a link on shortbows
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,25626.0.html
And here is a bow that broke while bending, but was saved with a splice
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,25370.0.html
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With a little bit of recurve and some deflex in the handle you can extend the draw length. The deflex in the handle will take a lot of stress off the limbs at full draw. Back it with sinew or bamboo and you can get a lot of bow out of that much wood.
This design could easily get you 30 inches of draw. http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,7923.0.html
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Well I went ahead and recurved the tips last night and it went well! It was my first successful bending job! I chose this method over the slices because I want to make a recurve with my next stave and figured this would make good practice. I think I will go for 45#@25". My girlfriend expressed interest in shooting so if successful this will be her bow. One of these days ill make her a plains style bow since she is almost full blood Sioux. Tonight I will probably take the original handle down and get it bending a bit. And ill try to get some pics up to make this post a little more interesting LOL. I appreciate all the input....thanks guys!
Keith
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Hmmmm??? Im confused. Your obviously inexperienced and you asked a question wanting an experienced answer. And you got some great answers and had two good options to choose from,but didn't take the advice of any. So why even ask if your not gonna listen to over a hundred years combined experience from guys who have been doing this a long time and have been there done that. ??? :-\
To even get a chance at getting that bow to 25" now you need to thin the handle down to make it bend in the handle and heat up the handle area and deflex it. And that's still pushing it a lil past the limits,especially for a selfbow. Sinewing it wood give it that chance tho even after thinning the handle and deflexing it. Good luck.
Careful in deflexing a handle area. If your not careful and keep everything lined up straight you'll throw your tips and centerline out and the string will be off the handle.
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I did use their advice. The handle was all ready deflexed from the first design and I only slightly recurved the tips to be just a hair behind the handle and am taking it down in the handle to make it a bendy one. I may be wrong but that's how I interpreted the advice given. there were two different views given so I took one and went with it. I agree Sinewing would an insurance and I may do that also but I got a lot of reading to do as I have not done any of that or saved any sinew from my deer.
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Ok...no worries. ;)
I was baffled and confused. Because you said you just recurved the tips and didn't mention you were gonna thin the handle down and take such and suches advice.
I think a side profile picture of what you have will help out a lot better to get the correct advice. No one knows how much the handle is deflexed and how far you recurved the tips.
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I will definitely get pics posted.
blackhawk- is the deflexed area supposed to start right at the handle or right at the fades? The deflexed area I have right now starts at the fades where they blend into the limbs.
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That's ok as long as that's where it is,and as long as there's enough to give you a fighting chance at reaching that draw length ;)
We'll all know better once we see your profile. Plus were a bunch of sickos here that like to look at pictures of all types of wood. >:D
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Start your deflex bend coming out of the handle then bend the tips above the back like Steve said. And 28" isn't pushing the limits with this bow if the design and Tiller is right.I've made a couple like this with 1"-1 1/4" wide limbs that pulled 50# and were around 50# @30".
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Mullet....remember this bow is only 48" long. Drawing it to 28" and 4" past more than half its length (which you suggested)is definetly pushing the limits. And you said you made one that drew 30"??? You must've deflexed the handle severely to achieve that. ??? Im confused. Please clarify.
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I don't follow the "rules" very much. It's just a piece of wood, if it doesn't do what I'm looking for, it probably breaks ::) Really nothing to be confused about, if you don't try something new you just keep on making the same stuff. If you read some of the earlier, "modern" bow building books it used to be said you couldn't make a bow from kiln dried lumber.
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Yes you can make a hunting bow and yes you can draw it 22 in. max. if backed with rawhide. 20 in if not. :) Jawge
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I frequently build bows between42-48 " that are from 30-70 pounds, so your length is fine.
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Here is a bend in the handle HHB, unbacked 51", 52# pulled 30".
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Plus were a bunch of sickos here that like to look at pictures of all types of wood. >:D
Woohoo!! Bow Porn!
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Awesome mullet that's exactly what I wanted to see ;)
Not sure if id advise you catnapper to attempt something like that yet tho. Thems for the pros to make. Let's just try to get you to get that bow at your intended 25"
Funny how there's varying opinions from folks saying how far you can draw this bow.
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Thanks, Blackhawk. I was just trying to get across that there isn't really established "rules", maybe guidelines. It seems like when someone comes across making a statement that is Gospel, someone else is going to ask why.
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well here are a few pics.... and the end result is i think i better save these shorties until i get a little more experience! After i thinned the handle down i put it on the tillering stick to see if it had any bend to it yet....and well the pics tell the rest of the story :( I appreciate all of the advice everyone has given and i think when i start my next bow i will post pics as i go so maybe you more experienced guys can help me spot my mistakes before they end in Tragedy! LOL Hope the pictures show up. Thanks again! Keith
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That sux. The handle really wasn't thin enough and you might have damaged the wood with to much heat. Is that the same limb that broke before? If so, thewood might have had some rot or wind damage.
On the up side, you get to make a better one with the knowledge gained from this one. ;) Advice is still free and plentifull.
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Dang it >:(
That does suck.
Lessons learned and keep trying
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Yes mullet that was the same limb that broke the first time. I coated the limb with crisco grease before heating it but it did darken the wood quite a bit after heating. I'm sort of confused on the whole heat thing. When guys heat treat their bows doesn't it improve the bow? Do they rehydrate the wood afterwards? I made sure I didn't scorch the limb while heating also. Also after seeing the pictures of the HHB bow I definitely had to much wood on the handle. Lessons learned for the next bow though and I'm sure it won't be the last failure! LOL. I have that much more respect for u fellas that turn out fine bows regularly.
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Heating a bow with a heat gun is really running a fine line of burning the wood and bending. You have to get a feel for it, watching the wood sweat, getting glossy when the resin starts to come to the surface, and not smelling burn't wood instead of popcorn cooking. You need to bend a few pieces and get a feel for it. Sometines it takes a few bendings between cool down sessions to get what you want. And sometimes you just can't do it without destroying a piece of wood. And yes, rehydrate before bending.
Heat treating instead of bending is a whole different story and when I do this I'm trying to burn it but not deep but even. you have to know when to move the gun, again, by experiance.
I hate to see your bow broke but I have no doubt you will have a fine one soon with this attitude. Everytime you break one there is a reason and one more step in the learning curve.
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That bow is a beauty, Mullet. Very nicely done. Cat, I am sorry your bow broke. Making an under built bow requires an exceptional piece of wood and exceptional skills of which I do not possess and I'd wager most first timers don't either. Stick with the tried and true formula of doubling your draw and adding a least 10 inches until you become exceptionally skilled like Eddie. You know what Ole Jawge says, "If you ain't breakin' you ain't makin'!" That's how you learn. Get another stave and have at it. Jawge
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Missed this topic...
But never too late to give my 2 cents opinion :)
As I see U have a too strong inner limb and a too much working flipped tip. If that reflex working too much, plus overdry it with heat, that indicate a blow for shure.
Wait after a few days or a week after heat treat. And draw it step by step with more atantion and care on the tiller. ;)
I have a sinew backed yew RD hunting bow with the same size 48. It have static recurve so could draw it 23, max 24 but not matters.
55# at 23
found just this old pic, pulled to 20 ::)
(http://static.fotoalbum.hu/picturepreview/2009/08-03/fusizoli/IMG_3275_233637.jpg)
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Mullet, thats one nice bow!!! wow!!
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Well damn keith, I was really enjoying this thread and you just had to ruin it >:(
Sorry man, you had it going on for a while. The guys on this site are real good ain't they ?Where else are we gonna get step by step tutelage of this quality for free?
Start the next one, good things ahead.
zoltan, eddie,sweet looking bows!
Lane
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I have another osage stave on the way that I'm sure I will need plenty of help with ;) (snakey osage) ..... And yes the guys on here are a gold mine of knowledge! From the looks of the pics they have posted on this thread they put that knowledge to good use too. :) Those are some sweet looking bows. If (when) I happen to break another longer bow ill give the shorty a try again. I would rather use the broken ones for practice instead of throwing them in the fire, and maybe one of these days ill salvage one into a short shooter. The snakey osage I bought last night looks like a neat stave but it was cut recently so it will need to season for a bit. I'm gonna take it slow on it though and get the advice before I get ahead of myself LOL.
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George, Cipriani, and Lane, thank you it was an exceptional piece of wood.