Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Flintknapping => Topic started by: gstoneberg on June 26, 2011, 09:52:54 pm

Title: Another question
Post by: gstoneberg on June 26, 2011, 09:52:54 pm
I chipped out a preform today.  It is from a spall on the edge of the rock.  For a change, I got the thinning done OK:

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3194/5874327031_2d0f3087bb_z.jpg)

but I don't know if this will make a point ???  Here's the other side.

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3011/5874886694_58c01eb916_z.jpg)

The spall was so thin (and me so much a novice) that I couldn't drive flakes all the way across and get rid of the white stuff.  It seems to flake OK, but would it be strong enough to make a hunting point?  Here's a thickness shot.

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5263/5874387067_fd6717a358_z.jpg)

Don't know how much flint is down at the base.  The point end has got plenty.  Sorry for all the questions.

Thanks,
George
Title: Re: Another question
Post by: nugget on June 26, 2011, 10:05:46 pm
I wold keep working it down to a finished point and see what happens. It looks like you could get a stemmed point out of it or something with a narrow base.
Title: Re: Another question
Post by: jamie on June 26, 2011, 10:43:05 pm
you got plenty of room to keep working. the limestone will hold an edge if you wanted to stop there though. but just so you know that thing is probably 400-450grains. thats a huge hunting point. gonna have to attatch it to a broomstick. youre doing great with it though.
Title: Re: Another question
Post by: Timo on June 26, 2011, 11:24:46 pm
Most hunting points I make range from 70 grns to 130, and are half the size of the one you are holding. If it were mine, I would set a strong edge on and smack that cortex off,(thinning and narrowing as you go). You won't learn it until you try it.

Looks good so far.
Title: Re: Another question
Post by: gstoneberg on June 26, 2011, 11:55:40 pm
OK, thanks all.  I gave it my best shot.  Still don't have thinning mastered.  But, I think I did get a point.

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3010/5874782233_b3e2332126_z.jpg)

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5077/5874783543_a97baa2182_z.jpg)

I tried and tried to get all the cortex off, but that little spot eluded me.  Then, I noticed the base wasn't even when I took the pictures.  Good grief.

George
Title: Re: Another question
Post by: Timo on June 27, 2011, 12:19:20 am
That is a great looking hunting point! No worries about it being a bit uneven, You can straighten that up with you mount it on a shaft. That will surprise you as to how much it weighs.
Title: Re: Another question
Post by: piper on June 27, 2011, 12:38:16 am
Looks like you are getting better.........Curt
Title: Re: Another question
Post by: Tower on June 27, 2011, 10:03:57 am
Looks  much better than it did at first. Ready for an arrow shaft. I use an Ishi stick for my final thinning ,with good platforms you can really thin an arrowhead . Your material looks real good.a lot like Texas rootbeer.
Title: Re: Another question
Post by: iowabow on June 27, 2011, 10:28:01 am
I bought a digital grain scale so that I can match the wt of the arrowhead to that of the field point that I practice with.  I think that the thinning thing will come in time. The more you knap the more you learn. The advice I was given that helped the most was to set up a platform and follow a ridge or high spot.  Just be sure to follow all of that stuff that tower told you in an earlier post. I think your arrow head looks real good. It is clear that you understand how the rock breaks so now it is a matter parctice and learning how to make real good platforms. I like that rock what kind is it?
Title: Re: Another question
Post by: gstoneberg on June 27, 2011, 10:43:18 am
Thanks.  I brought the point in to work and will weigh it.  I'll have to convert from grams to grains but that's no big deal.  I need to order a grain scale, my reloading scale doesn't go past 100gr.

It probably is Texas root beer.  I got this rock from Patrick.  Most of my points have been out of regular gray flint like I find at my lease, but I did get some of the beautiful dark stuff as well as some nice obsidian.  Bub sent me some obsidian slabs (point size) and I tried two of them yesterday.  It was real pretty stuff, but I broke one point in half part way through and knocked a big chunk out of the other one.  Flint seems a little more tolerant of my errant strikes. ::)  I hav'nt done much pressure flaking at all (and what I have done has been very poor).  Fortunately, Patrick's indirect percussion can be used all the way to sharpening the point.  When he does it, thinning is no problem as well.  I need another lesson, should get it in a couple weeks.  I can't stay away from the rock that long though. ;)

George
Title: Re: Another question
Post by: JEB on June 27, 2011, 10:51:39 am
Great looking point.  That would take a Michigan whitetail for sure.
Title: Re: Another question
Post by: gstoneberg on June 27, 2011, 11:42:40 am
Well, the point weighs 188 grains.  That's a touch heavier than I'd prefer, but it'll work.

George
Title: Re: Another question
Post by: JackCrafty on June 27, 2011, 12:06:56 pm
Looks great George!  Looks deadly sharp too!
Title: Re: Another question
Post by: iowabow on June 27, 2011, 12:09:34 pm
I am going to try and draw some platform preparations that I use in in an hour. This is what I am currently doing but it could change next week if i find a better technique
Title: Re: Another question
Post by: gstoneberg on June 27, 2011, 12:24:51 pm
Looks great George!  Looks deadly sharp too!

I just emulate you my friend.  Thanks so much.  Is the 9-10 still on for you?  I realized I hadn't talked to Hugh so I shot him an email last night.

George
Title: Re: Another question
Post by: criveraville on June 27, 2011, 02:21:52 pm
You are learning fast George..
Title: Re: Another question
Post by: JackCrafty on June 27, 2011, 02:31:55 pm
The 9th & 10th looks good for me.  :)
Title: Re: Another question
Post by: iowabow on June 27, 2011, 03:06:40 pm
Maybe you already know this stuff but here are a couple of drawings.
(http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb423/Iowabow1/2011-06-27095150.jpg)

(http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb423/Iowabow1/1309193526518.jpg)
Title: Re: Another question
Post by: gstoneberg on June 27, 2011, 03:40:02 pm
Well, knowing it and doing it are 2 different things.  I still don't pick out the centerline of the piece like you guys do.  When the spall has 1 really flat side and a big hump on the other I struggle with moving the edge high enough to drive flakes off the hump.  The one in this thread is better than most.  I'll get it, and I appreciate all the advice.  I figure it'll make sense as I keep working at it.  Right now I don't even know the point names.  Had to look up a stemmed point so I could do one.  Then I realized I'd already done one without realizing it.  Spending some time with Patrick in a couple weeks will give me another boost.  Seeing somebody do it and then doing some hands-on is the way to go.

Thanks all,
George
Title: Re: Another question
Post by: Tower on June 27, 2011, 04:59:21 pm
Sweeet. Can I get a signed print?
Title: Re: Another question
Post by: Lee Slikkers on June 27, 2011, 05:02:50 pm
no joke, some serious artistic skills around here...
Title: Re: Another question
Post by: bubby on June 27, 2011, 05:35:33 pm
point looks nice Geroge, on the obsidion ya really have to support the area behind where you're flaking once it gets thin especially the tip, and they dont have to be pretty to kill something, check out what billy berger hunts with in PA this month, Bub
Title: Re: Another question
Post by: neuse on June 28, 2011, 10:44:51 am
Hey George, that looks good. It doesn't take you long to learn.
I need some of those lessons.
Title: Re: Another question
Post by: gstoneberg on June 28, 2011, 11:04:10 am
Thanks, I think Patrick's gonna be at Cross Plains weekend after next so if you're free come and join us.

Iowa, I took your pictures and one of my old failures that had a big hump on one side and made another stemmed point out of it last night.  Forgot to take a picture though, but it didn't look any different than the point in this thread, only smaller.  Might bring it in to work to weigh it tomorrow.  Anyway, thanks for drawing up those pictures, it was helpful.  You got some drawing skills bud. :)

OK Bub, I'll try another one tonight.  Ricky's coming over to work on his bow and I have the tarp set up so I can be in there with him and chip too. Got the fan blowing right on us.  ;D

Life is good.

George
Title: Re: Another question
Post by: iowabow on June 28, 2011, 11:21:16 am
Your welcome.   Your point looks real good and you are learning real fast keep up the good work. Sounds like you are getting tarp time and that is real helpful.  Good luck if you need any more drawings just let me know.  I like drawing because it is easier than setting up a photo.
Title: Re: Another question
Post by: cowboy on June 29, 2011, 01:04:45 pm
Looks good George! Your moving right along. Man, i wish this work thing didn't always get in the way of my fun..
Title: Re: Another question
Post by: crooketarrow on June 29, 2011, 04:05:47 pm
   Looks ok for someone just starting just keep at it.
Title: Re: Another question
Post by: gstoneberg on June 29, 2011, 04:23:38 pm
Ricky came over last night to work on a bow and brought his knapping stuff.  I stunk, broke 1 point outright, broke off the ears on a nice obsidian point I just about had done, and then messed up 2 leaving them too thick.  Ricky, on the other hand, knocked out a beautiful point from some untreated flint he was bashing about twice as hard as my heat treated flint and 10 times as hard as the obsidian.  Frustrating.  I'll get back at it tomorrow night I hope.

Everything gets in the way of fun.  My grass is getting so tall I'm gonna have to buy a goat.  I'll have to run the string trimmer and mower for a couple hours before I'll get any knapping time.  Plus, I have a new yew stave I'm playing with.  Even my fun gets in the way of my fun. ::)

George
Title: Re: Another question
Post by: iowabow on June 29, 2011, 11:44:28 pm
I hear ya I have to cut grass before I can finish two arrows I need for the TN shoot but I really want to knap flint but I really want to start my new bow.  The thing is tomorrow the wife has a to do list for me so I guess what I will be doing.   
Title: Re: Another question
Post by: gstoneberg on June 30, 2011, 11:37:53 am
I did something fun the other day.  I went back to my first day of knapping and took the middle point in the right of this picture

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2533/5849129267_6f512260c7_z.jpg)

(that I had quit on it because I couldn't get that hump out of it) and gave it another try.  As you can see, I like stemmed points because they don't require notches. ;)

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5273/5887168327_9748c91447_z.jpg)
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5199/5887166759_a2b1380920_z.jpg)

I didn't take the time to sharpen it much, but I might put that one on an arrow.

George
Title: Re: Another question
Post by: JackCrafty on June 30, 2011, 01:33:33 pm
Cool! 8)
Title: Re: Another question
Post by: iowabow on June 30, 2011, 01:58:20 pm
Your doing great! When your working and do something really cool put the flake back on the stone and look at how you set it up.  I think that point will do fine for hunting.  I broke three points the other day it is part of the learning process I guess.
Title: Re: Another question
Post by: Lee Slikkers on June 30, 2011, 03:55:09 pm
George, you are really making some nice progress on your journey to usable heads.  I am envious (and taking notes  ;D)  Really good stuff!
Title: Re: Another question
Post by: gstoneberg on June 30, 2011, 07:16:25 pm
I am surely having fun, though I don't feel like I'm mastering the process yet.  Thanks for the kind words.   I have so many staves to work that I'm gonna have to take at least a short break from knapping. ???  I did weigh this last point and it weighs 107gr.  That gives me some examples to base future points on.

George
Title: Re: Another question
Post by: Lee Slikkers on July 01, 2011, 08:26:24 am
That is a decent sized point...I've been struggling to find material up here locally so I may turn to recycled bottles and try some glass points.  Not sure how that will go and I need to figure out how to covert grams to grains since my scales are all Falconry scales and only do grams (but they do the grams to the 100th) so we'll see.

Get bow building!  LOL, I should have my latest finished up today if I get the handle wrap on her.
Title: Re: Another question
Post by: gstoneberg on July 01, 2011, 08:49:53 am
Lee,

Google grams to grains conversion and you'll find lots of free conversion web pages.  I could write my own, but there's no need, somebody else has done it already.  People have been very kind to me getting me started with flint, even heat treating it first.  Once I get my own setup done and find some more flint I'll send you some.

I have a lovely yew stave that would be a bow pretty quick if I got after it.  And I have trade billets to get ready for people.  So much fun to be had...and so little time.  Not to mention that it's 100 degrees in the shop every day now which dampens my spirits a little...but not much. ;D

George
Title: Re: Another question
Post by: stickbender on July 02, 2011, 01:09:07 am

     Dang, George, that is great!  8) I have some untreated Texas flint, but I can't Knapp it for crap untreated.  You have certainly got it going on, for learning!  And Iowa, you should do the Illustrations for PA, ;)  Any of those points will do the job! ;) 8)

                                                       Wayne
Title: Re: Another question
Post by: iowabow on July 02, 2011, 11:03:17 am
Doing drawings for PA would be cool.