Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Around the Campfire => Topic started by: recurve shooter on August 11, 2011, 08:40:27 pm
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soo i got off work early today (ammonia 5 went down last night, wont let contractors in till they figure out what its problem is.) so i hopped in the truck and ran around town to look at some glock 10 mm or long slide glock 40 cals. but, after talking a bit with one of the guys at one of the stores, he handed me an H&K 45, and a Springfield xdm. Im sure you have all picked up a gun or a bow that just melted into your hand like it was meant to be there? that was the H&K 45, but i cant find much bad to say about the xdm either. disregarding price, which is a bit steep on both, do you guys have ANY negative comments on either gun? i know that there is nothing wrong with a glock, sig, 1911, ect ect, but i am absolutely in love with that H&K, and the xdm is a fairly close second. but yea, anything bad to say about either? which would you prefer, given the choice? thanks guys!
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Well, I had the Sig, got it from stickbender because it didn't feel good to him. And it didn't feel good to me, so I traded it even up for a Para-Ord from Canada and I like it a lot. Can't really comment about the rest.
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R.S your hand has great taste in hand guns!!!! and that gun shop guy speaks my lingo!!!! I love .45 cal anything!!!! hk is really good stuff, but do us a favor,,,,,,,really look over a kimber 1911,,,tell me what you think. but my heart is with a wheel gun,,,,don't jam,,or stove pipe!!! My pet is a ruger blackhawk in .45lc good luck, and happy shopping JeffW
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Go with a Glock 19. 9mm is a good round. Glock is an awesome gun. Glock 17 and 26 nare also super good 9mm. 9mm has stopped many many men and animals.
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I have a glock 19 and a 21, love em both, but if I had to choose it would be the 21. i like a 45 too. ;) the HK is a great gun, buddy of mine had the one w/ a smaller grip. smaller than the glock 21. 9mm is ok, easy to get rounds and kills a goat dead, but the 45 is...well a 45. Never owned a large cal. revolver, but they look cool.
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you can't go wrong either way, but i'm partial to springfield's, Bub
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I love the glock myself, it doesn't jam or stovepipe either. Glocks have endured more abuse than ANY gun and still fire. LAPD even ran over one with a halftrack trying to cause it to malfunction, but it didn't work. For me the glock model 22 is an extension of my arm. I point and it is on target.
I know caliber is a touch subject for some, but Im going there anyway. 9mm is not enough gun! I have personally seen guys shot in the head and the round didn't penetrate. I don't plan on shooting anyone, but if it doesn't penetrate, critters are getting away. A 45 will penetrate, but sometimes to much, you really have to be aware of what is behind. It also has a lot of unneeded kick and decreases the amount of cartridges in the mag. The 40 is by far the best option. It has enough penetration (14 inches) to do the job, but not going to kick as much and holds more rounds.
Understand that I am biased after carrying the glock 22 in .40 cal for the police department. But a lot of money was spent trying to make these guns missfire and they wouldn't. A lot of money was also spent studying the correct caliber and the 40 performs where it counts. The 40 is also a ton cheaper to shoot than the 45 which means I can shoot a lot more.
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The XD is a great gun- I have the XD 9 service and it's had zero problems in the two years i've owned it (put maybe 2k rounds through it). All the guns you mention are good, go with the one that feels best in your hand- grip angle, trigger , etc.
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thanks for the info guys. i also love glocks, my dad has one that he has abused to extreme extents and has NEVER misfired. he has killed i think 17 deer with it. (not legally, i dont support most of my dad's methods or beliefs, dont jump me for what he does.) most of them were head shots from like 20-30 yards so obviously accuracy is there. but, what i dont like about glock: EVERYONE AND THEIR COUSIN HAS ONE! i want something where people arnt like "oh, just another one of those". also, since they started putting those darned finger grooves in them, i cant stand the way they fit my hand. finger grooves are to small. >:( i love glocks, respect them, and have absolutely nothing bad to say about them, my hand and my taste just dont like them. i just LOVE that hk 45. (dad has a glock 22, 40 cal)
LOVE revolvers. cant go wrong with one. but i want a combat looking pistol. i will admit i may be partialy influenced by the "tacticool" movement. i just think its an insane looking/feeling gun. plus you have to admit automatics are just fun.
on the caliber side of the equation: i have my little sigma 9mm for just playin around with. cheap gun, cheap ammo, something i can beat around, shoot as much as i like, and not realy care much what happens to it. now i want some serious, high end fire power to put a thousand through to get used to it, then fill her with hollow points and use it for whatever needs to die. (deer while squirrel hunting, those pesky cotton mouths, or, god forbid, a threat to myself or my loved ones.) i like the 45. its huge. perhaps unnecessarily so, but i will have no question upon pulling the trigger weather this round will end it or not. however, i do not have a problem with a 40 or even 9mm, i just want something big. H&K also makes the....i think p30 or m30...some thing 30, thats pretty much the exact same gun and grip, just in 9mm or 40 cal. one of those in 40 cal might not be bad, but i just fell in love with that 45. also the hk45 has an integral recoil dampening system that supposedly greatly (up to 30 percent) reduces felt recoil, making the 45 feel like a 40 or so.
i love the hk 45, but there are other opitons. after a week or two of brewing on it im sure i will be a little more open, but i know for sure it will be between the hk45, the whatever 30 in 40 cal, or the XDm in 45 or 40. my girl says im indecisive. i just dont see it. :P
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Like Aaron said, go with what you like and fits your hand. I would go with the Springfield, but that is my personal preference. H&K is excellent, period. the Gun I sold to Mullet, was a superb gun but it was BIG, and it just didn't feel right, and I never shot more than a box of shells through it, and I couldn't hit anything worth a darn. But that was me. Maybe after getting used to it, I could do better, I don't know. Eddie said it was very accurate. The trigger was amazing, you just pulled and it fired. No creep, or anything to let you know you were about to the end of the sear notch. It was the smoothest trigger pull I have ever felt. Glocks are superb. I just don't like look or feel. I prefer the .45. It has proven itself in combat many times over with full metal jacket bullets. With a good fast expanding bullet, it is devastating to whatever it hits. The key to the Nine MM is bullet weight, and fast expanding bullets. I like the Hydra Shocks, and PMC Starfire, which is a copy of the old Winchester Black Talon. I have some nine MM's and I like them, and used to carry them, especially the Astra AL75. It is double action, and very accurate, and compact. But for carry, I prefer my Kimber Ultra carry, in .45 . Trey, when it comes to self defense with a hand gun, or any gun, too much is not a problem, unless you can't control or handle it. I absolutely love wheel guns! (revolvers) I have a few of those also, and when it comes to just plinking, I prefer those. I have from 32, short, 32 long, 38 S&W which is a short 38, and 38 special. 357 mag., 44 special, 44 mag, and 45 long colt. I had a Taurus Raging Bull in .454 Casull, but sold it. In a good strong gun like the Ruger, you can load up the 45 to near or equal 44 mag . And it is just a big ol chunk of lead. I love the 44 special, and it is an excellent defense weapon. I have a 4 inch Taurus in 44 special, that is with hot loaded 240 grain hard cast semi wadcutters, an absolute target pistol! With standard loads it is just so so. Get the gun that you and your hand likes, and try different brands, and different bullet weights, and see which ones it likes best. ;) This all just my own opinion, and you know what they say about opinions........ ::) ;)
Wayne
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Amen stickbender!!!!!! .45 for me,,, I load my ruger bh to the max I have filled many a freezer too, I have loaded black powder w\ a round ball (jim shockey powder) man I love the smoke!!!!! but I do have a s\w in a .40 cal that takes a full moon clip (wheel gun) and man can I knock over some steel!!!!!. as far as wheel guns not being ultra cool just ask that pro shooter Jerry Mishilack, I know I miss spelled his name, but he's the guy that fires a revolver that sounds like a chain fire!!!!!!!!!!Jeffw
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For what it's worth, if you are looking for a man-stopper (as in stop the threat in it's tracks) you need something that starts with a .4, just saying.
If you just want to go plinking, 9mm is way cheaper (at least in Canada, but I assume it's similar in the US), unless you are already set up to reload those 40's or 45's.
I just bought myself a Ruger SR9 this spring, and really like it. I am thinking about picking up the Ruger SR40 as well.....the great thing about the Ruger is the price!...and it's still a great striker fired gun.
my two canadian cents.
J
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I wanted to buy my first handgun several years ago and was looking at semi autos. I ended up getting a taurus 44mag revolver with the 8 3/8" barrel. That is a man's gun right there. It gets plenty of looks and comments. I can stash it under my car seat, and take it deer hunting. It is the only gun I have carried for the last 3 seasons and I have killed 2 deer with it. I would still like to get a semi auto, but I don't regret buying the revolver one bit. Good luck with whatever you buy.
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talking about one shot stops with the 9mm luger...would you guys really just take one shot though to try to stop the attacker when you have 15-17 rounds in the mag?
I'm looking at the SR9 for a personal christmas present...but if I would ever have to use it in self defense I'd sure use more than one shot.
Like my welding teacher told me if the situation ever comes up and you are questioned in court. 15 rounds would not been enough...17 rounds would be too many...but 16 was just enough to stop the attack.
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i've been shooting handguns for over 30 years and have shot just about every caliber out there. for me there are only two serious large calibers, .44 mag and the .45. the .44 mag is the best all round caliber for hunting medium to large size animals. i would hunt anything with it in north america and africa except grizzly or the big five. for personal defense, there is also only one and that is the .45 acp preferably in a 1911 frame handgun. the 9mm and .40 are fun calibers to shoot at cans with but there size and stopping power are just not enough to STOP someone from getting to you when they are drugged up or running at you. i read a quote from a SWAT team capt. one time and he said a 9mm is a .45 set on stun. now a lot of people go back and says this is what the army and marines are carrying, but what most people don't understand is the army and marines are not in the business to kill but to wound thereby causing the enemy to use up resorces. why else do you think they switched to the .223 from the .308, plus the rounds are lighter and can carry more of them. i think it was in the spanish american war and wwl where the lack of stopping power of small calibers like the .38 special became very evident. the .38 has 225# of energy and 9mm has 306#, while the .45 has almost 400#. of course all of this is my opinion so take it for what it's worth.
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It was in the Philippines, back in the very early 1900's when the Natives, can't remember the correct name, Moro's I think, anyway, they would get all hopped up and attack the U.S. Expeditionary forces there, and do a lot of damage to the forces. The U.S forces were armed with the 30/40 Krag Jorgenson, rifle, and the colt 38, with a 200 grain bullet. It was minimum effective at best. The rifle was alright, but for close combat the pistol was just not cutting it. The Army sent some Luger's, and said try this. They did, and said send something more effective. The Army had done away with it's single action .45 Colt, and replaced it with the double action .38 Colt. Well they were asking for the .45 Colt back at least it had the power to stop an attacker even if it was a single action, and took too much time to reload. The army then sent the newly acquired, and still undergoing testing, .45 Automatic Colt Pistol, in limited number to try. The Expeditionary Forces, said send more! It stopped the attackers in their tracks, often with just one shot, where as the .38, and 9mm took multiple shots, and even then sometimes it didn't stop the drugged up Moro's from reaching the soldiers. As for the one shot theory, two shots is, or was the standard FBI training . The first shot to the mid torso, and the second due to the assailant being bent over from the impact, would receive another round in the upper torso region. So rather than trying to hit one particular spot, you aimed mid torso and double tapped . It is quite effective.
There was a Sherriff, or Police Officer somewhere, that shot and killed a man who had committed murder, and then also shot and killed a Police Officer, he was asked by the lame stream media why he had shot him "X" many times, and the Officer replied that it was all the ammo he had with him at the time. The .45 acp is still used by special forces teams that need to stop an enemy quickly, at close range. Again bullet type and weight plays a big part in any caliber. I like my .44 special, my S&W .45acp revolver, and my .45 long colt, especially loaded up for hunting, and absolutely love my S&W model 29 in .44 Magnum. But for an all around personal protection Handgun, I prefer the .45acp, again personal preference. If someone is out to kill you, and just walks up and shoots you, you have little recourse, but those around you if armed, will have a good chance to stop the threat. Providing they are adept at retrieving their personal weapon of choice in a smooth and timely manner. Trey decide what the gun you choose, will be used for the most, or any combination there of, and make your decision on based on that. But as with any firearm know it inside and out, and be completely familiar with it before carrying it, concealed or not. I just got an email from a friend of mine that sent a newspaper article from a Arizona newspaper, that told of a man who took his wife's pistol from her to carry it for her, while they stopped a little fast food place, and he was shoving it down in his waistband, and it went off shot his manhood, and thigh. The Police said he should have had a holster. Well I personally think, and not knowing all the facts, surmise he had his finger on the trigger., so shoving it in a holster would not have prevented it from firing, but might have been pointed in another direction, rather than in the direction of the center for genetic replication, and recreational relaxation unit and male thought processing center. ..... ::) ;D
Wayne
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hmmmm. howbout a 460 s&w 5 shot revolver? good accuracy and stoping power there. >:D
but serriously i was lookin at one of those yesterday. out of that big giant hunk of s&w stainless steel i think that would be an incredible (yet expensive and a little over powered for deer) hunting pistol. and honestly im a hunter, not a fighter or a competitive shooter, so i suppose it would be good to go with a hunting pistol. i would go with a regular ole 44 mag, 45 lc or 357 but everybody has one of those. i want something different. :)
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Well then get what you like. ;) After all it is you that is going to be carrying, and using it. Just think about the cost and availability, of ammo for your choice, as another factor in your decision. ....... ;)
Wayne
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yea thats the problem with the 460. from what iv read it has the trajectory of a 30-30 with the wollop of a 45-70 out of a HANDGUN! that just amazes me to no end. now like i said, yes, it is way more than i need for what i hunt and at the ranges that i hunt buuuuuut, i like that i CAN shoot longer ranges and bigger game if i ever get the chance and though it is a little (ok fine, quite a bit) overpowered for deer and hogs at 25-100 yards, i just like that i could always take the thing to hunt anything anywhere in the world and never need a bigger gun.
now, if it wasnt for the fact that it has the potential to do anything i could possibly ask it to, i would happily take a 44 mag, which is still one heck of a round, but i also want something thats a notch above what everyone els uses. possibly due to the whole young male effect. i think if the special folks at the plant will get that darned ammonia leak fixed so i can actually start getting my hours again, im going to go ahead and get the monster. sence its fairly new to the market, if i decide i dont like it, i should be able to get a good bit back for it. still pondering, but i kinda like that cannon.
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for personal defense, there is also only one and that is the .45 acp preferably in a 1911 frame handgun.
There is a reason the 1911 has a hundred years worth of rabid fans.
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YEP! ;D
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Trey, what is lightest weight bullet, you can get in that pistol? That is what I would use for hunting, except for a Grizzly, then I would go for the heaviest bullet. ;) But I wouldn't be out there looking for in the first place, because with my luck, I'd find one! :o :o :P ;D
Wayne
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mind changed again. glock 10 mm with an aftermarket 6 inch barrel (not the long slide just the goofy looking extended barrel), and either one of those strange little red dot sights or adjustable night sights would work just fine for deer and hogs and even with mods id still come out cheaper than the sw. i just gotta figure out some way to fix those messed up finger grooves that some genious decided was a good idea. >:(
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here's my 629 .44 mag, can't ask for any better than this. here is also a pic of my cutomized springfield 1911. it shoots pretty good too. this is a 12 yard group.
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Then there was the guy that went into the bush with a guide up in Alaska to hunt big bears. As they were working their way up on a likely bruin the hunter looked back to see if his guide had pulled his backup pistol...the guide was toting a little .22 auto! He looked at the guide in astonishment and asked the guide if he really thought that was the best choice for shooting the bear. The guide said, "Oh, this ain't for the bear. If that bear turns I'm shooting you in the kneecap."