Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: youngbowyer on September 14, 2011, 09:28:01 am

Title: Rawhide didnt glue down properly.
Post by: youngbowyer on September 14, 2011, 09:28:01 am
I glued on some rawhide with Titebond and wrapped it with rubber innertube every 1/2 inch. Left that on for a day and then let the bow dry for 2 days. Some parts are not glued properly so what should I do? Can I wrap them with sinew?
Title: Re: Rawhide didnt glue down properly.
Post by: Dazv on September 14, 2011, 10:36:49 am
when the hide was just put on did you get all the air bubbles out???
Title: Re: Rawhide didnt glue down properly.
Post by: Elktracker on September 14, 2011, 02:27:32 pm
 " wrapped it with rubber innertube every 1/2 inch" When you say this are you saying that there were 1/2" sections up and down the bow that werent wrapped with innertube? If so then are these the areas that werent glued properly? Also same question as Dazv asked?

Josh
Title: Re: Rawhide didnt glue down properly.
Post by: George Tsoukalas on September 14, 2011, 02:49:36 pm
You may have squeezed out the glue. I haven't done much with rawhide. I've wrapped with gauze and it turned out ok. When I wrapped with nothing it turned out better. I used T2. Jawge
Title: Re: Rawhide didnt glue down properly.
Post by: youngbowyer on September 14, 2011, 06:00:32 pm
i think i might have squezed out the glue while pushing out air bubbles. there are only 3 or 4 spots where 1/4 inch is not glued down properly. can i squeze some supperglue under there and then wrap it with sinew?
Title: Re: Rawhide didnt glue down properly.
Post by: LEGIONNAIRE on September 14, 2011, 06:22:58 pm
Superglue wont do much, itll crack. Use the same glue you were using and see if that works. Before you do it moisten the area with a wet rag, I find that it helps the glue and its easier to get wrinkles out. Good luck
Title: Re: Rawhide didnt glue down properly.
Post by: medicinewheel on September 14, 2011, 06:37:24 pm
Honestly, if it's a good project rip it off, sand it clean, re-glue new stripes!
Use masking tape to fix the hide before wrapping.
Use elastic bandage, not innertubes, wrap the whole bow carfully, leave bandage on for ~20 minutes, then take it of and let it dry.
Title: Re: Rawhide didnt glue down properly.
Post by: youngbowyer on September 14, 2011, 08:02:32 pm
Honestly, if it's a good project rip it off, sand it clean, re-glue new stripes!
Use masking tape to fix the hide before wrapping.
Use elastic bandage, not innertubes, wrap the whole bow carfully, leave bandage on for ~20 minutes, then take it of and let it dry.
exactly what i did i wrapped the whole thing and then wrapped it again. i'm gonna leave it overnight and take it off when i get home from school tomorrow.
Title: Re: Rawhide didnt glue down properly.
Post by: MWirwicki on September 14, 2011, 08:11:49 pm
I see that you've already wrapped it.  But for the future, you may try it like this which works for me without fail. 
1. Soak the rawhide in warm water for 10-15 minutes. 
2. While the rawhide is soaking, lightly sand the back of the bow to expose "fresh" wood.
3. Pat dry to remove excess water.  Rawhide should now be moist. 
4. Apply evenly a coat of glue to the back of your bow.  This is what some of us call "sizing."
5. Apply an even coat (not too much, not too little) of glue to the rawhide surface you wish to glue.  Make certain that all surfaces have glue and that there are no "dry" spots.  Usually, I apply glue to the flesh side and leave the hair side of the rawhide exposed.
6. Position rawhide onto the back of your first limb. 
7. Wrap rawhide with an ACE type bandage.
8. Repeat steps 1-7 for the remaining limb.
9. Set aside overnight then remove ACE type bandage.  Let dry for another day or two.
Title: Re: Rawhide didnt glue down properly.
Post by: JW_Halverson on September 15, 2011, 01:32:34 am
I see that you've already wrapped it.  But for the future, you may try it like this which works for me without fail. 
1. Soak the rawhide in warm water for 10-15 minutes. 
2. While the rawhide is soaking, lightly sand the back of the bow to expose "fresh" wood.
3. Pat dry to remove excess water.  Rawhide should now be moist. 
4. Apply evenly a coat of glue to the back of your bow.  This is what some of us call "sizing."
5. Apply an even coat (not too much, not too little) of glue to the rawhide surface you wish to glue.  Make certain that all surfaces have glue and that there are no "dry" spots.  Usually, I apply glue to the flesh side and leave the hair side of the rawhide exposed.
6. Position rawhide onto the back of your first limb. 
7. Wrap rawhide with an ACE type bandage.
8. Repeat steps 1-7 for the remaining limb.
9. Set aside overnight then remove ACE type bandage.  Let dry for another day or two.

I usually use a rubber band at the handle to hold the rawhide in place after step 6 above.  Then starting at the handle and working out I use my thumbs to gently massage the air bubbles and glue bubbles out of the limbs.  It will also cause the rawhide to stretch out some as well.  At this point I use a damp sponge to wipe off the excess glue that has run out from under the rawhide. 

I diverge from step 7 and take the Ace bandages off after about half an hour.  The glue should have set up a great deal but the rawhide will only have dried a little.  Take that wet sponge and wipe down the rawhide, get it good and wet again.  This will raise up any of the bandage pattern that may have been embossed into the rawhide. 

Title: Re: Rawhide didnt glue down properly.
Post by: medicinewheel on September 15, 2011, 05:18:30 am
Matt's is a great description, but I also recommend to not let the wrapping sit for more than half an hour; when it was warm the otherday a backing had started to smell funny after being wrapped for like 2 hours, it had developed some strange dark spots that could be sanded off later.

A question:

Why do you guys always say you glue the flesh side on? -
The hair side is so much tougher and more homogeneous, also seems to be less greasy. When dry I always sand the back big time to get my backing real thin. I have best results gluing on the hair side.

Title: Re: Rawhide didnt glue down properly.
Post by: medicinewheel on September 15, 2011, 05:23:59 am
PS: I know there is always more than one way to do whatever, and I really like the possibilities to exchange here on PA. I have learned a great deal from all you fellow bowyers! Thanks for that.

Here are some of my rawhide backings:
Title: Re: Rawhide didnt glue down properly.
Post by: Pappy on September 15, 2011, 07:51:11 am
I do it about like Matt, except I also take the bandage off in a hour or 2. I do glue the flesh side,don't know why  ;) ;) just the way I learned. :) I think you done the right thing by just taking it off and starting over,I use to have some trouble like
that when I used cow rawhide [pretty thick] I only use deer rawhide now and it works much better. :)
   Pappy
Title: Re: Rawhide didnt glue down properly.
Post by: youngbowyer on September 15, 2011, 09:40:25 am
I ended up taking the bandages of after an hour. I am using cow rawhide but it's pretty thin. Hopefully it will work out. Will rawhide take stain? I want to stain it brown
Title: Re: Rawhide didnt glue down properly.
Post by: Pappy on September 15, 2011, 09:59:45 am
It will but sometimes will take it pretty uneven especially if it has thick and thin spots. :)
   Pappy
Title: Re: Rawhide didnt glue down properly.
Post by: medicinewheel on September 15, 2011, 08:11:44 pm
...Will rawhide take stain? I want to stain it brown

Yes; the bow in the middle picture has black wood stain on the rawhide. Worked really well.
Title: Re: Rawhide didnt glue down properly.
Post by: MWirwicki on September 15, 2011, 08:13:27 pm
I use deer rawhide also.  Nice and thin.  I like to glue the flesh side because the hair side is easier to decorate or paint, if you will.  Crisper lines with less bleeding.  Also, its the way I learned.

I figure that the ace bandages breath, so that's why I leave them on a bit.  However, I have taken them off after an hour or so with good results.  I guess it mostly depends on when I rawhided the bow.  Likely, because it was midnight when I started the process and I got to get to bed.
Title: Re: Rawhide didnt glue down properly.
Post by: Gus on September 16, 2011, 01:35:16 am
Excellent Thread!

Thank You all for the info and insight as I'll be trying some Roo Rawhide here pretty soon.

-gus
Title: Re: Rawhide didnt glue down properly.
Post by: Stingray45 on September 16, 2011, 01:33:43 pm
If I'm doing a board bow I put the rawhide on like MW listed but then I clamp another flat board on to get it flat. I just put my first piece of rawhide on a log stave the other day and used a bike innertube, leaving no spaces and it worked Great! The only thing I don't do from MW's process is I don't size the rawhide with glue, I just put a nice even coat all over the bow and then I put the rawhide on and use a popsicle stick so smooth it all out and stretch the rawhide while it's damp. Then I wrap it solid with the bike innertube and let it dry over night. Currently my bow is drying the extra day or so before I start messing with it again.

~Barry
Title: Re: Rawhide didnt glue down properly.
Post by: Stingray45 on September 16, 2011, 01:36:06 pm
Hey Medicine wheel, I'd like to stain the rawhide I just added to a bow with some hickory gel stain I have and then I may actually put a snake skin over top, but we'll see how it looks after staining, if I like how it looks I'll save the snake skin for another bow. But my question is, did you sand the rawhide lightly before staining or will it take the stain well as is?

~Barry
Title: Re: Rawhide didnt glue down properly.
Post by: randman on September 16, 2011, 04:32:35 pm
Has anyone used the Dean Torges method for Rawhide? No wraps required.
If so, what is your opinion.

http://www.stickbow.com/FEATURES/SELFBOWS/gluing_backing.CFM (http://www.stickbow.com/FEATURES/SELFBOWS/gluing_backing.CFM)
Title: Re: Rawhide didnt glue down properly.
Post by: medicinewheel on September 16, 2011, 07:29:28 pm
@sting: I sand the rawhide a lot sometimes to get it as thin as possible, but there is no need to do so for any staining or painting on it; it'll take the colors anyway.

@rand: can't open the link to Dean's side for some reason right now, but I have glued on rawhide with no wrapping except some masking tape just for positioning and it worked well.

Actually I have used rawhide with both hair and flesh sides down and it worked well; it's probably not such an important part in the whole process.
So far I liked goat parchment the best, want to give roo a try sometime soon. deer works well, of course, but I prefer the smaller hides.