Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Kviljo on July 10, 2007, 08:17:10 pm

Title: Osage Holmegård (fulldraw p.2)
Post by: Kviljo on July 10, 2007, 08:17:10 pm
I just finished my new osage Holmegård. It's about the height of a stone age man, and draws about 60-70-80#, with a optional drawlenght up to 32" or so. It's madly overbuilt! But this Osage is really great stuff! Awesome colour and great to work with! Full-draws will perhaps come some time in the future.

(http://kviljo.no/bue/osage/1.jpg)

(http://kviljo.no/bue/osage/2.jpg)

(http://kviljo.no/bue/osage/3.jpg)

(http://kviljo.no/bue/osage/4.jpg)
Title: Re: Osage Holmegård
Post by: DanaM on July 10, 2007, 09:00:49 pm
Looks sleek and deadly to me. ;D
Title: Re: Osage Holmegård
Post by: Pat B on July 10, 2007, 11:42:14 pm
Very sleek looking. How tall were the stone aged folks that used these bows? ::) What's the length?
Don't you just love osage. It is my favorite.   In a few months it will be a nice golden brown.  Nice bow. Looking forward to full draw.    Pat
Title: Re: Osage Holmegård
Post by: Justin Snyder on July 10, 2007, 11:53:09 pm
I love the nice clean lines of a simple selfbow.  All the stuff that can be added is cool, but I love to see the wood working.  It leaves no doubt about the power of wood.  I sure would like to see more pictures. Justin
Title: Re: Osage Holmegård
Post by: Loki on July 11, 2007, 03:59:02 am
That looks really nice Kviljo!love the colour of it  :P
Title: Re: Osage Holmegård
Post by: Pappy on July 11, 2007, 05:58:40 am
Very nice,love to see it at a full 32.How long is it? :)
   Pappy
Title: Re: Osage Holmegård
Post by: Hillbilly on July 11, 2007, 07:38:32 am
Great looking weapon. Looks like you've got a good source of cherry bark there, too :)
Title: Re: Osage Holmegård
Post by: Kviljo on July 11, 2007, 08:24:08 am
I'm afraid it's a birch tree :)

I think it's about 67" ntn.

Don't think I will draw it to 32" yet. I'll keep an eye on it's stringfollow when I do at least. The stave had 1.5" reflex, and is pretty straight now, so I guess it will gain some stringfollow if I draw it the extra 2". But according to Badgers mass formula it shold last beyond 32". :)
Title: Re: Osage Holmegård
Post by: GregB on July 11, 2007, 08:31:08 am
Hill Billy, I thought it was cherry also at first look.

I wouldn't ever draw it more then maybe 1" past your drawlength just for a sense of comfort. No need to place extra set if you don't have to. :)
Title: Re: Osage Holmegård
Post by: OldBow on July 11, 2007, 01:13:49 pm
Quite the stick bow. How about slapping on a string and cranking it back and share the Full Draw image with us?
Title: Re: Osage Holmegård
Post by: 1/2primitive on July 11, 2007, 01:50:13 pm
Very nice, looks smooth, I want to make a Holgaard one of these days....I've got the wood, now I've just got to get down to it.
      Sean
Title: Re: Osage Holmegård
Post by: DCM on July 11, 2007, 02:33:54 pm
From what I can tell from here, that's about the cleanest bodock I've ever seen.  Would love to see the thickness/width transition on the outer limb, and the tiller.  That's usually the Achilles heal of a homey.  Slickern snot for sure.
Title: Re: Osage Holmegård
Post by: Gordon on July 11, 2007, 04:31:13 pm
That's a fine looking weapon. I sure would love to see a braced and full-draw picture.
Title: Re: Osage Holmegård
Post by: Kviljo on July 11, 2007, 06:56:55 pm
Thanks folks  ;D

A fulldraw will appear suddenly, but perhaps not within the first days :)

Title: Re: Osage Holmegård
Post by: Badger on July 11, 2007, 07:31:15 pm
Kvillo, just having the weight in the wood won't neccessarily mean you cna draw it 32", the placement of the mass and the tiller are critical. Steve
Title: Re: Osage Holmegård
Post by: Kviljo on July 11, 2007, 07:53:17 pm
Of course not :)  But I think I have distributed the stress as evenly as I possibly can, with just a hint of bend in the outer narrower limbs.

Tillering is sooo easy with board-bows, but these stave-bows tend to give me some food for thought. But I think I have setteled down with the tiller it has got now.
Title: Re: Osage Holmegård
Post by: Badger on July 11, 2007, 10:53:13 pm
Kvillo, one thing I do and more is explained in the book, but if outer limbs are tiffer than normal as i might do in a holmgarde I would assign a slightly larger number for draw length, maybe 2" over actual, and if mid limb is bending more than usual I would assign a slighlty larger number to stiff handle area, maybe 2" more than actual. This will allow you some extra mass that you need on this design. Steve
Title: Re: Osage Holmegård
Post by: George Tsoukalas on July 11, 2007, 11:24:34 pm
Looks  very good so far. Jawge
Title: Re: Osage Holmegård
Post by: Kviljo on July 12, 2007, 08:10:16 am
Ahh, I see. Maybe it's not that heavy after all. Good to hear!

You will have a chapter on the formula in TBB4?
Title: Re: Osage Holmegård
Post by: Kviljo on July 12, 2007, 03:46:48 pm
Suddenly and more quickly than I had expected. Here they are:


(http://kviljo.no/bue/osage/a.jpg)



(http://kviljo.no/bue/osage/b.jpg)


Here's the section where is goes from wide to narrow:

(http://kviljo.no/bue/osage/c.jpg)

And a fulldraw.

(http://kviljo.no/bue/osage/d.jpg)


Oh, and there's also my yew bow that I will make in 40 years time or so ;D
Title: Re: Osage Holmegård
Post by: Pat B on July 12, 2007, 04:10:50 pm
You got a good bend all the way through the limbs although looks like the top limb is a bit stiff. That could be the camera angle.  That is an exceptionally clean piece of osage. We don't find much like that here in the US.   I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for that yew tree to grow. Maybe your great grand kids will enjoy it. ;D   Beautiful bow!
   There ought to be some good shoots in that pink rose besides you for arrows!    Pat
Title: Re: Osage Holmegård
Post by: AndrewS on July 12, 2007, 04:45:46 pm
Looks like a fine bow :)
Title: Re: Osage Holmegård
Post by: DCM on July 12, 2007, 05:00:46 pm
Nice bow.  Clean hedge.  Technically not quite a homey.

There was an article in the archives at the old site by a lady who made a nice whitewood holmegaard.  Been some time ago.  Was well written and a nice bow as well.  Interesting design, I want to say the one example from antiquity was actually a backwards bow, ie. outer growth ring on the belly.  Wide, parallel inner working limb, stiff, narrow outer limb with abrupt transition about midlimb or slightly beyond.  The transition has always been the vexing aspect of the design for me.  Most examples I've seen I considered too generous in the thickness on the outer limb and too stiff in the transition.  Most short, fast flatbows have an aspect of the homey design so in a way it is widely practiced.
Title: Re: Osage Holmegård
Post by: Kviljo on July 12, 2007, 08:23:58 pm
Humm, I would have to disagree. :) What is the reason to think that they were "backward"-bows?
Also, take a look at e.g. Gad Rausings "The bow" (1967), or Jurgen Junkmanns "Pfeil und bogen"(2001). Both have drawings, and the latter a picture of one of the Holmegårds. They vary from almost none to quite abrupt narrowing at approx. midlimb. Yep, there's about 24 more or less complete Holmegårds from Denmark, plus at least one from Sweden, according to Junkmanns.
I'd love to read that article by the way! Does it exist on the net somewhere still?

I took several fulldraw-pics, and the tiller looked slightly differen on all of them, but I think I would agree that it bends a little more on the lower limb. It might be me not holding the bow exactly 90 degrees to the camera, or I might be drawing a bit high on the string. Perhaps both, but it might as well just be that it is bending a little much on the lower limb. Anyway, I'll just have to try to forget it, or prepare for giving it 10 coatings of danish oil again ::)
Title: Re: Osage Holmegård
Post by: Kviljo on July 12, 2007, 08:34:06 pm
Oh, forgot about the shoots! I've never thought of that before. It grows like mad, and theres lots of straight ones "inside" it - got to try that!
Title: Re: Osage Holmegård
Post by: George Tsoukalas on July 12, 2007, 08:47:26 pm
Very nice bow. Congratulations. Enjoy. Jawge
Title: Re: Osage Holmegård
Post by: Ryano on July 12, 2007, 11:47:07 pm
nice bow tiller looks pretty darn good to me. Looks like the stave has some prop twist, could be making the top limb look stronger. :)
Title: Re: Osage Holmegård
Post by: jpitts on July 13, 2007, 12:53:02 am
Good Looking bow. Prettiest piece of Osage I ever saw
Title: Re: Osage Holmegård
Post by: DCM on July 13, 2007, 10:15:54 am
Kviljo,

"Humm, I would have to disagree. :) What is the reason to think that they were "backward"-bows?"

I could easily be wrong.  And please don't consider my comments critcism.  I'll have to look around and see where I got the idea of the backward bow. 

"Also, take a look at e.g. Gad Rausings "The bow" (1967), or Jurgen Junkmanns "Pfeil und bogen"(2001). Both have drawings, and the latter a picture of one of the Holmegårds. They vary from almost none to quite abrupt narrowing at approx. midlimb. Yep, there's about 24 more or less complete Holmegårds from Denmark, plus at least one from Sweden, according to Junkmanns."

Again I'd defer to your knowledge.  I think my mistake was assume the archtypical design with an abrupt transition was the only example.

"I'd love to read that article by the way! Does it exist on the net somewhere still?"

I don't see a section on this site with a link to the archive of old published articles.  They may have discontinued that practice.  But I know I had the magazine it was in.  If I can find it I'll send it to you.  I'll look around this weekend.  I think I've kept all my old PAs.

Again, it's a great bow, and evidently very much a Holmegard.
Title: Re: Osage Holmegård
Post by: DanaM on July 13, 2007, 10:48:44 am
That is perhaps one of the best looking bows I've seen posted, nice tiller and the clean simple lines truly appeal to me.
Title: Re: Osage Holmegård
Post by: Kviljo on July 13, 2007, 11:12:10 am
I know there has been some confusion about the way some stone age bows were drawn. I haven't found solid evidence of either, but my own feeling is that they too must have seen the huge strength and security in having a single growthring on the back of an elm bow.

But if there is some arguments for backward bows, I'm really really interested in hearing about it.

It would be super if you found the magazine, but dont spend too much time looking :)

I wouldn't call it a Holmegård replica - it's way too yellow for that, and of course I haven't used measurements from an original artefact, but I assume the Ertebølle-people would recognize it as a "normal bow", hehe ;)
Title: Re: Osage Holmegård (fulldraw p.2)
Post by: OldBow on July 13, 2007, 11:22:04 am
Glad to see that osage as premium as this one is was made into a bow by a bowyer with real skills that you obviously have. Got you bookmarked for July Self Bow of the Month, too.
Title: Re: Osage Holmegård (fulldraw p.2)
Post by: DCM on July 13, 2007, 07:27:09 pm
Kviljo,

I looked and did not find the PA issue w/ the Holmegaard article.  I may have giving it away, as I found issues back to 2001, but I know I subscribed before that.
Title: Re: Osage Holmegård (fulldraw p.2)
Post by: Pat B on July 13, 2007, 07:48:45 pm
David, Was that the article by Hillary Green(something). The only female in the MRT.    Pat
Title: Re: Osage Holmegård (fulldraw p.2)
Post by: DCM on July 13, 2007, 08:25:48 pm
Yes Pat, I believe so.  I know it was a lady, and Hillary sounds familiar.  I want to say it was a cherry bow perhaps.  Interesting article.  I recall a good tiller profile picture.  Wish I could find it.  I think it was posted online at one time.
Title: Re: Osage Holmegård (fulldraw p.2)
Post by: SimonUK on July 13, 2007, 08:40:27 pm
The article might have been by Hilary Greenland, the author of 'The Traditional Archers Handbook'. I remember reading her PA article about her holmegard online. But I can't find it at the moment.
Title: Re: Osage Holmegård (fulldraw p.2)
Post by: Pat B on July 14, 2007, 10:18:21 am
Well, I found it. ;D  July 2000, Volume 8, issue 3. "A Bowmaker's Tribute To The ENGLISH ELM. By Hillary Greenland.     Pat
   
Title: Re: Osage Holmegård (fulldraw p.2)
Post by: Kviljo on July 14, 2007, 01:39:36 pm
Great! I'll have to order that one :)
Title: Re: Osage Holmegård (fulldraw p.2)
Post by: DCM on July 14, 2007, 06:21:17 pm
Duh.  I've always been interested in elm bows.
Title: Re: Osage Holmegård (fulldraw p.2)
Post by: SimonUK on July 15, 2007, 07:33:50 pm
This lady runs the Society for the Promotion of Traditional Archery in the UK (I'm not sure if I'm allowed to post the link). Anyway, she's the British equivalent of you guys.
Title: Re: Osage Holmegård (fulldraw p.2)
Post by: Loki on July 15, 2007, 07:53:08 pm
There's a link to this site on her site.
Title: Re: Osage Holmegård (fulldraw p.2)
Post by: Pat B on July 16, 2007, 12:40:44 am
Thanks Simon. ;) That will be easy enough to google. Besides advertisers, other sites are not allowed to be posted. A little inconvenient sometimes but thats the rules.  ;D      Pat
Title: Re: Osage Holmegård (fulldraw p.2)
Post by: Justin Snyder on July 16, 2007, 02:09:43 am
Kviljo, I just saw the full draw pictures.  The bow looks great.  I am particularly fond of the holmegard style.  Justin
Title: Re: Osage Holmegård (fulldraw p.2)
Post by: Kviljo on July 21, 2007, 05:59:35 pm
Thanks :)


I shot it for distance this evening. With the second arrow from the bottom, it reached 265 meters, with help from a light breeze. And with the longest arrow, it did just over 200 meters. I'm happy ;D

(http://kviljo.no/bue/265.jpg)
Title: Re: Osage Holmegård (fulldraw p.2)
Post by: SimonUK on July 21, 2007, 08:13:27 pm
Great performance  :) it's true what they say about holmegards then. How heavy is the longest arrow?
Title: Re: Osage Holmegård (fulldraw p.2)
Post by: makete on July 23, 2007, 12:22:20 am
Beautiful bow. Love those lines and grain in that piece of wood is something to see.
Title: Re: Osage Holmegård (fulldraw p.2)
Post by: jorarn on July 23, 2007, 05:16:16 am
A real beauty you got there!
I Can´t wait to get my hands on some osage :)