Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Pat B on February 07, 2012, 12:49:32 pm

Title: Huisachi ?
Post by: Pat B on February 07, 2012, 12:49:32 pm
Any of you Texas or South Western guys ever use Huisachi (Acacia smallii - Mimosa family) for bow wood? Cipriano sent me a 3" shoot(pole, branch) to try. I have stripped the bark and sealed it. It is very dense, hard and heavy. This piece was cut 10/1/11 so I know it isn't dry yet but it feels dry after the bark came off. I know it needs more time though. I Googled it to get whatever info I could. Thats where i got the botanical name.
Title: Re: Huisachi ?
Post by: gstoneberg on February 07, 2012, 01:09:28 pm
Nope, I have not.  Interested to see how it goes though.

George
Title: Re: Huisachi ?
Post by: blackhawk on February 07, 2012, 02:24:19 pm
Me neither...but this might help ya. Whenever I try an unknown I start as wide as possible(within reason) and once I got it floor tillered ill weigh it and tiller it per steves mass formula. That way you nail the sweet spot for the width with that piece of wood. Say your target weight is 20 ounces and it weighs 30 ounces at floor tiller. And it usually only requires two ounces of belly removal from floor tiller to finish tiller. So that wood mean you could remove about 7-8 ounces off the sides of the bow for example.

Or do a specific gravity test so you know its density.
Title: Re: Huisachi ?
Post by: Gus on February 07, 2012, 02:26:28 pm
Hey Sir,

I've seem a few Huisache bows on the net.
Haven't built one yet.

But I collected about 10 or 12 saplings last October to give it a go.
Peeled and sealed about half of them so far.

Have done some carving in Huisache, the wood is quite dense, loves the scraper and will produce a fine finish.
Color of the stuff I've got, the heart wood tends to a deep red/brown, but not as dark as Mesquite.

-gus
Title: Re: Huisachi ?
Post by: DRon knife on February 07, 2012, 02:32:54 pm
Idk Pat,but we(me)would love to see a pic or two :)
Title: Re: Huisachi ?
Post by: Pat B on February 07, 2012, 04:19:38 pm
Blackhawk, this stuff is very dense and heavy.
  Gus, this has a redish brown center(about 1" dia) and creamy sapwood. It's only 3" across on rghe butt end.
  Ron, I'll get some pics of it. I have stripped the bark off of it and sealed with shellac.
  George, I'll let you know!  ;)
Title: Re: Huisachi ?
Post by: Buckeye Guy on February 07, 2012, 06:25:08 pm
Chris
You are getting a little to tecno for us old folks !
I just start wide and if it gets too thin I reduce width .
( for the first go round at some thing new  )
Title: Re: Huisachi ?
Post by: Bevan R. on February 07, 2012, 06:27:54 pm
Me neither...but this might help ya. Whenever I try an unknown I start as wide as possible(within reason) and once I got it floor tillered ill weigh it and tiller it per steves mass formula. That way you nail the sweet spot for the width with that piece of wood. Say your target weight is 20 ounces and it weighs 30 ounces at floor tiller. And it usually only requires two ounces of belly removal from floor tiller to finish tiller. So that wood mean you could remove about 7-8 ounces off the sides of the bow for example.

Or do a specific gravity test so you know its density.

 :oWhiskey Tango Foxtrot??? :o
Anyone care to translate this into human? ;)
Title: Re: Huisachi ?
Post by: Pat B on February 07, 2012, 07:00:50 pm
If you read Steve Gardner's Chapter in TBBIV (Mass Theory)you will know what Blackhawk is talking about.   ;)
Title: Re: Huisachi ?
Post by: Bevan R. on February 07, 2012, 07:06:21 pm
I have read it Pat, at 2 times, still waiting for the Readers Digest english version.
Title: Re: Huisachi ?
Post by: paulsemp on February 07, 2012, 07:50:35 pm
I do enough math at work. Even though it would probably help to apply it bow making, I have no desire.
Title: Re: Huisachi ?
Post by: Pat B on February 07, 2012, 08:00:36 pm
 ;)
Title: Re: Huisachi ?
Post by: SA on February 08, 2012, 02:15:18 am
I do enough math at work. Even though it would probably help to apply it bow making, I have no desire.

i agree bow making should be relaxing :) a stress reducer si
Title: Re: Huisachi ?
Post by: LEGIONNAIRE on February 08, 2012, 05:08:42 am
the wood iis fairly elastic and has a good reputtion. i use to make slingshots with it. i wish i had some, i would love to make a bow from a green sapling.
Title: Re: Huisachi ?
Post by: blackhawk on February 08, 2012, 08:34:12 am
I didn't think 2nd grade level math and subtraction was/is to difficult to understand and apply. :laugh:  :laugh:

I run numbers all day at work too,and it doesn't bother me. And you still have to come up and figure out proper dimension numbers when building bows ;)

Stubborn ole men  8)
Title: Re: Huisachi ?
Post by: paulsemp on February 08, 2012, 08:51:40 am
I am sorry Pat your post got hijacked. For what it is worth, if I wanted my bows to make sense on paper I would calculate my pretaper  thickness and throw fiberglass on the back of it. It works every time!!!! Sorry blackhawk, I am a smarta--, it is in my nature. (p.s. I am only 31)
Title: Re: Huisachi ?
Post by: blackhawk on February 08, 2012, 09:05:25 am
Why do I get ragged on every time I bring this up ::)...n its always by folks who have never tried it. Ya can't say ya don't like something if you've never tried it before. I understand to each his own..but....just saying. And its not even close to making a FG bow. It just helps you simply to make a better selfbow. Each piece of wood has a different density,even in its own species. I only bring it up because there might be someone out there reading it that might like to give it a try.

I don't wanna hijack and get into a full blown debate here..so please don't take me to seriously ;)
Title: Re: Huisachi ?
Post by: mullet on February 08, 2012, 09:17:15 am
 I cut a 10" log and brought it home a couple of years ago. I left it to dry on the concrete slab by my shop and it sprouted green limbs in two weeks. ??? I never did split and use it, though.
Title: Re: Huisachi ?
Post by: GregB on February 08, 2012, 09:40:49 am
Nice weather we're having isn't it?  ;)
Title: Re: Huisachi ?
Post by: paulsemp on February 08, 2012, 09:43:46 am
It's beautiful out!
Title: Re: Huisachi ?
Post by: blackhawk on February 08, 2012, 09:51:23 am
It sure is... ;D....n how about those .........<----insert local sports team... :laugh:

Hey pat where are the pics man?  ;)  I've never heard of this wood before..so id like to see it.
Title: Re: Huisachi ?
Post by: criveraville on February 08, 2012, 10:31:49 am
It's cold here today, but no wind. I think I'm on lesson 76 in phonics today. And living and nonliving thing in science.  >:D

Cipriano
Title: Re: Huisachi ?
Post by: Pat B on February 08, 2012, 11:17:50 am
  No one has to appologize to me. Healthy debate is what keeps this obsession of ours going. This is how we find out about different aspects of wood bow building. I'm just happy we have so much information availasble to anyone that wants to look for it.
 I've read and get the basics of Steve Gardner's Mass Theory but haven't specifically put it to practice even though some of my methods parallel Steve's theory. It is excellent info from a guy that has studied wood bows and has worked with some of our modern wood bow experts like Tim Baker, Paul Comstock, etc.  We all do things a bit differently from each other and that keeps the juices flowing and the wood chips flying.
  I'll take a few pics of the huisachi today and post them. I removed the bark yeaterday as Cipriano suggested due to possible insect infestation and I sealed the wood with shellac. The bark reminded me of red maple, smooth and a grayish coloration.
Title: Re: Huisachi ?
Post by: crooketarrow on February 08, 2012, 12:17:32 pm
  Made a been in the handle bow 50 inch sinewed for a guy back in 95. 50#@26 I was impressed no set or string follow and how snapy it was.
Title: Re: Huisachi ?
Post by: Pappy on February 08, 2012, 12:34:29 pm
Never heard of the wood but looking forward to seeing what you come up with Pat.  Eddie did you plant it. ;) ;D ;D  Steve is going to be at the Classic this year
and stay in the cabin with me,I have never tried his system but plan on picking his brain while he is with me  live,I do better that way rather than reading
something. :)
   Pappy
Title: Re: Huisachi ?
Post by: Pat B on February 08, 2012, 12:42:49 pm
I'm the same way Pappy.
Title: Re: Huisachi ?
Post by: blackhawk on February 08, 2012, 12:52:01 pm
While everyones crowding around steve..ill be the lonely quiet guy in the corner minding my own business tillering per mass on a stick o wood.  ;)...hahaha...riiiiiight...me quiet ::) if any of you guys wanna see how its done and steve has his hands full,ill have my scale with me and can help with what I know n how I do it. Id be glad to share....but steve wood know more than me  ;)

Got that stick bending yet Pat ;)
Title: Re: Huisachi ?
Post by: Pat B on February 08, 2012, 02:01:51 pm
Drum roll, please!  ;D  Here are a few pics. This piece has a few issues but when did a wood bow builder ever see that as a barrier.  ;)  I'm looking forward to working this stuff. As heavy as it is and as dense as it is it can't be bad.
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/Huisachi002.jpg)

(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/Huisachi001.jpg)

(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/Huisachi003.jpg)

(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/Huisachi004.jpg)
Title: Re: Huisachi ?
Post by: Jimbob on February 08, 2012, 02:04:10 pm
I cant wait to see what comes out of that log!!
Title: Re: Huisachi ?
Post by: gstoneberg on February 08, 2012, 02:14:37 pm
Have you decided whether you're going to saw that in half, split it, or just go with 1 bow from it?  Looks like a good project.

George
Title: Re: Huisachi ?
Post by: Pat B on February 08, 2012, 02:21:32 pm
George, I considered sawing it in half and binding it back together with spacers between the two halves. I've done that with osage poles and it worked well. Not kowing anything about this wood I want to do whats best for it. Any suggestions?  :-\
Title: Re: Huisachi ?
Post by: blackhawk on February 08, 2012, 02:42:09 pm
Yikes...this oughta be gooooood ;)....can't wait to see this one  :D....id say saw it in half if you can and have room to do so. And make a reflex bow with one half,and take advantage of the deflex piece for a R/D profile. That's my vote.  8)
Title: Re: Huisachi ?
Post by: gstoneberg on February 08, 2012, 02:44:52 pm
...Any suggestions?  :-\

Sorry, no.  I have no idea what'd be best.  I'm a white wood novice.  I still haven't worked my crepe myrtle stave. :-[   I'd for sure be trying to preserve that relex, though that big knot is intimidating.  Good luck.

George
Title: Re: Huisachi ?
Post by: Gus on February 08, 2012, 03:06:10 pm
Pardon Sir,

Did you notice if the bark looked straight grained or was it twisted?
Huisache has a tendency to twist a bit when growing.

Regards,

-gus
Title: Re: Huisachi ?
Post by: Pat B on February 08, 2012, 03:29:50 pm
Gus, I didn't examine the bark closely just looked at it. Nothing jumped out at me but it is pretty smooth bark so it wouldn't be obvious. I'll clean up the sapwood a bit and get in some good light and examine it closely. I can handle some twist.
Title: Re: Huisachi ?
Post by: Pappy on February 09, 2012, 07:22:08 am
WO now that is one ugly piece of wood, ;) :) :) I have faith you can bring out the best in it,looks like a very challenging piece of wood.  :) Good luck and keep us posted. :)
   Pappy