Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: PEARL DRUMS on March 06, 2012, 02:19:40 pm

Title: Little experiment...pics added
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on March 06, 2012, 02:19:40 pm
I grabbed a now underweight, chrysalled ash bow off my rack yesterday for a retro job. The fades are (were) stiff causing the chrysalls. I retillered the bow since losing 10# of draw. I wont toss bows away until they are broke for good. Anywho I had no osage or ipe cut into lams and wasnt in the mood to change my blade and do so for this bow. So I took some 1/16" thick mesquite lams and slapped them on the flat belly with TBIII. I realize Mesquite isnt exactly a compression strong wood, neither is ash in any sort. I will find out tonite when I get home and feather out the underlay if it works. If it does work it will be one sweet looking ash bow! I will shoot it 50-100 times. If the mesquite is going to give way it will by then Im thinking.

Update: Here we go. I gained 7#'s of draw weight and more early draw tension with the added reflex. I shot it about 20-30 times and I see no chrysalls anywhere except for ONE that was an original right on the edge where the belly lam doesnt cover. Its now a 45+# bow and zips a good arrow. The unbraced pic is immediatly after I shot it and after allot of exercising. I have about 1 hour invested in this project so far. The full draw shot is only 26" because I hate leaving a bow at draw for anywhere near the time it takes to grab a pic.

Title: Re: Little experiment
Post by: druid on March 06, 2012, 02:40:02 pm
I like your experiments, man!  ;)
Title: Re: Little experiment
Post by: blackhawk on March 06, 2012, 02:44:03 pm
Waiting per your results  8).....and when ya got some thin osage slats cut,then send em my way...I got a failed BBI attempt(my 2nd bow attempt) that fretted on me,and eventually I wanna thin the ipe down and glue on a thin osage belly lam.  ;)
Title: Re: Little experiment
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on March 06, 2012, 02:46:56 pm
Roger that Black Mockingbird! It has worked twice before, but not with mesquite on the belly.
Title: Re: Little experiment
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on March 06, 2012, 02:47:20 pm
I like your experiments, man!  ;)

A guy has to have a little fun once in a while Druid!
Title: Re: Little experiment
Post by: artcher1 on March 06, 2012, 02:58:09 pm
Man, you get to have all the fun! Now why it that ;D?

I don't like to throw anything out either. Least you'll come away with is a solid backing piece. Waste not, want not I say!
Title: Re: Little experiment
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on March 06, 2012, 03:20:37 pm
Man, you get to have all the fun! Now why it that ;D?

I don't like to throw anything out either. Least you'll come away with is a solid backing piece. Waste not, want not I say!

If it doesnt work this time I will rasp the mesquite off and add some osage or ipe and know it will work! I have made some real shooting jewels out of some seriously poor built bows in the past. Matter of fact any and every misbuilt bow from my past has been resurrected, and to my knowledge still shooting.
Title: Re: Little experiment
Post by: seabass on March 06, 2012, 06:01:48 pm
cool man.i can't wait to see the results.
Title: Re: Little experiment
Post by: artcher1 on March 06, 2012, 07:03:09 pm
I finally made my first ash bow last year and am pleasantly surprised with it Chris. Those little worm tracks on it's back didn't hurt a thing  :o.
Title: Re: Little experiment
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on March 06, 2012, 08:23:12 pm
I finally made my first ash bow last year and am pleasantly surprised with it Chris. Those little worm tracks on it's back didn't hurt a thing  :o.

I know just what you mean Artsy. All my staves have those. I go down one or two rings and its pristine.
Title: Re: Little experiment...pics added
Post by: Bevan R. on March 06, 2012, 08:38:34 pm
Nice save sir! That makes it a sweet looking little meat maker for sure.
Title: Re: Little experiment...pics added
Post by: Ifrit617 on March 06, 2012, 09:18:06 pm
Very Cool! I am curios how you get the belly of the bow perfectly flat for the glue up? I may have a bow that I could do this with...
Title: Re: Little experiment...pics added
Post by: paulsemp on March 06, 2012, 09:22:44 pm
 I like it! Might still have a beater bow laying around to try that on. Great post
Title: Re: Little experiment...pics added
Post by: seabass on March 06, 2012, 09:47:25 pm
nice save brother.good deal,Steve
Title: Re: Little experiment...pics added
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on March 06, 2012, 10:27:05 pm
Very Cool! I am curios how you get the belly of the bow perfectly flat for the glue up? I may have a bow that I could do this with...

There are two schools of thought when it comes to belly shape on flatbows. Slightly rounded is one and flat with slightly rounded shoulders is the other. I fall into the latter category so my belly was already flat. I used the fine side on my super Shinto to rough it up and level it out a touch. Sanded it back down with 50 grit and blew it off good. Then wiped a light layer of glue on the lam and belly. Lined it up good and used 10 spring clamps per limb. Alternating which side I attached the clamps so the weight was even and the bow dried untwisted and flat. To add reflex sit the center of the bow on a paint can back down so the limbs can sag from the weight  of the clamps. The belly lam and bow can slide so the sag will add reflex after it dries in 12-15 hours. PRESTO you gotta second chance to finish the same bow. The only rule I see so far is you cant add so much thickness to the main limb it weakens your already finsihed tips. Have fun and post some pics if you try it out, good or bad is always good when your dinking around.
Title: Re: Little experiment...pics added
Post by: Ifrit617 on March 06, 2012, 10:29:13 pm
Cool! Thanks..

Jon
Title: Re: Little experiment...pics added
Post by: Jboyd on March 06, 2012, 10:47:37 pm
I fixed a bamboo backed hickory that same way with some osage lams and it is
the only bow I have that I killed a deer with.

If it aint completely broke it aint broke!  Good Job

Jamie
Title: Re: Little experiment...pics added
Post by: jtbluefeather on March 06, 2012, 10:59:57 pm
I just may have to try this on my first HBH that I did. Tiller is wonky and I was just going to leave it as a wall hanger, but I do have a pair of osage lams I wasn't doing anything with. If I scraped down the hickory belly and added the osage, it would worta end up like a tri lam then?  Might as well experiment like PD!  Thanks for the idea PD! :)
Title: Re: Little experiment...pics added
Post by: Youngboyer2(billyf) on March 06, 2012, 11:12:22 pm
I love rescue bows, they get a second chance to prove themselves
Title: Re: Little experiment...pics added
Post by: Pat B on March 07, 2012, 12:31:39 am
Good deal Pearlie.  I have a "corner of shame" that I occasionally choose a candidate for experiment.  >:D  (sounds evil  ::) )  I've added belly lams to selfbows and made trilam out of backed bows. Generally the results are better than the original's potential.
 
Title: Re: Little experiment...pics added
Post by: MoNative on March 07, 2012, 12:39:15 am
Hey, thats pretty cool drum! 8)
Title: Re: Little experiment...pics added
Post by: NruJaC on March 07, 2012, 02:36:08 am
Pat or Pearl, how do you guys get the belly flat enough to glue on the lams? I have a couple of bows that I'd like to try this with, but I'd never be able to get the belly flat enough (especially not with only hand tools).
Title: Re: Little experiment...pics added
Post by: Pat B on March 07, 2012, 02:39:28 am
Belt sander!  ;)
Title: Re: Little experiment...pics added
Post by: NruJaC on March 07, 2012, 04:49:00 am
As a student living in an apartment, I don't think my neighbors would appreciate that one :(. Ahh well, one day I guess.
Title: Re: Little experiment...pics added
Post by: bubby on March 07, 2012, 07:03:45 am
i did this same fix on a maple backed gonco alves bow that was bending too much at the fades, glued on some belly lams that i cut off another bow, stoped them about a foot from the tip's i think, anyway it worked great, Bub
Title: Re: Little experiment...pics added
Post by: Pappy on March 07, 2012, 08:06:01 am
Very nice save, great it got a new life and second chance to prove itself. :) :)I need to save mine, guess I should,I always just cut um up and cook brats with them. ;) :)
   Pappy
Title: Re: Little experiment...pics added
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on March 07, 2012, 09:42:43 am
I see Tim Baker classifide mesquite as suitable bow wood if constructed accrodingly. Ash cant be much better in compression. That could be why it worked so far. Its a fun bow to shoot at a lighter weight and it has zero hand shock with a big fat 16 strand B50 tiller string on it. Osage lams would have added more draw weight Im sure. Next time I wont be so lazy and I will saw some!
Title: Re: Little experiment...pics added
Post by: Del the cat on March 07, 2012, 09:43:32 am
As a student living in an apartment, I don't think my neighbors would appreciate that one :(. Ahh well, one day I guess.
It can be done with a fine rasp, a steady hand and a lot of patience.
Del
Title: Re: Little experiment...pics added
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on March 07, 2012, 09:45:49 am
 
Pat or Pearl, how do you guys get the belly flat enough to glue on the lams? I have a couple of bows that I'd like to try this with, but I'd never be able to get the belly flat enough (especially not with only hand tools).

I explained the entire process in detail a few posts up. Have a read.
Title: Re: Little experiment...pics added
Post by: TurtleCreek on March 07, 2012, 09:47:03 am
  Using your new idea, bloodwood or zebrawood would look pretty sweet too.  Great idea Pearl
Title: Re: Little experiment...pics added
Post by: turtle on March 07, 2012, 09:53:15 am
I have my first try at an osage highly reflexed static recurve. Imade the rookie mistake of getting it too light before getting to brace. It ended up at around 30# with a  hinge in the top limb. I will haveto drag it back out and try this.
Title: Re: Little experiment...pics added
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on March 07, 2012, 10:05:47 am
  Using your new idea, bloodwood or zebrawood would look pretty sweet too.  Great idea Pearl

Keep in mind the compression qualitys of the lam your adding and the qualitys of the bow your addinG them to. Your asking allot from that little belly lam when you glue it down. Hence my mesquite and TBIII experiment. If I wanted to be sure it worked I would use ipe or osage with URAC.
Title: Re: Little experiment...pics added
Post by: jtbluefeather on March 07, 2012, 12:53:14 pm
Can I use smooth on instead of URAC?
Title: Re: Little experiment...pics added
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on March 07, 2012, 12:53:46 pm
Sure
Title: Re: Little experiment...pics added
Post by: BowEd on March 07, 2012, 01:27:48 pm
Pearl Drums...I've used gemsbok horn laminations on the belly of hickory bows a few times.Once on a kentuck coffee tree bow.It increases my poundage anywhere from ten to twenty pounds.Depending on the thickness.Flat belly on the bow and flat side of horn together with smooth on put in a reflex.I wrap it on with a strip of inner tube and clamp it in a form.If the bow was in tiller before it will be after glue up.Horn will take 4 times the compression that wood will they say.I believe it in the results.A little more work getting the horn ready but it works great.I guess it can't be called a self bow any more but is all natural materials.Great job on your bow there.Now you got a shooter again.
Title: Re: Little experiment...pics added
Post by: BowEd on March 07, 2012, 01:30:23 pm
I forgot to add here the way I understand what's happening too is the nuetral plane is changed on the belly of the bow also.
Title: Re: Little experiment...pics added
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on March 07, 2012, 09:51:54 pm
Pearl Drums...I've used gemsbok horn laminations on the belly of hickory bows a few times.Once on a kentuck coffee tree bow.It increases my poundage anywhere from ten to twenty pounds.Depending on the thickness.Flat belly on the bow and flat side of horn together with smooth on put in a reflex.I wrap it on with a strip of inner tube and clamp it in a form.If the bow was in tiller before it will be after glue up.Horn will take 4 times the compression that wood will they say.I believe it in the results.A little more work getting the horn ready but it works great.I guess it can't be called a self bow any more but is all natural materials.Great job on your bow there.Now you got a shooter again.

If the gemsbock horn is that compression strong then it would seem that hickory would be an excellent canidate considering its tension strength. I bet it made a fine bow!
Title: Re: Little experiment...pics added
Post by: Canoe on March 07, 2012, 11:28:21 pm
Howdy Group,

Great save on an underweight bow. 

I have a handful of underweight, stiff handled flatbows.  Any chance I could flatten the backs up real nice (using a joiner), and then glue on a slat of Osage or hickory to add 10 to 15 pounds to the draw weight?

If so, who do I get the slats from?

And, thanks for sharing little project.  It's good to know that it ain't over 'til it's over.

All the Best,
Canoe
Title: Re: Little experiment...pics added
Post by: criveraville on March 07, 2012, 11:53:35 pm
Pearly nice save there with our National wood. That mesquite belongs in Texas. You beat send her on back  8)

Cipriano
Title: Re: Little experiment...pics added
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on March 08, 2012, 10:03:16 am
Howdy Group,

Great save on an underweight bow. 

I have a handful of underweight, stiff handled flatbows.  Any chance I could flatten the backs up real nice (using a joiner), and then glue on a slat of Osage or hickory to add 10 to 15 pounds to the draw weight?

If so, who do I get the slats from?

And, thanks for sharing little project.  It's good to know that it ain't over 'til it's over.

All the Best,
Canoe

I would suggest hand tools or a belt sander. Leave the back if you can and flatten the balley rather. For lam's I just grab left over cut outs from staves and saw them into slats on my band saw. .060" thick seems to work good. I pay no attention to grain but the slat shoudl be clean on knots or bad swirls.
Title: Re: Little experiment...pics added
Post by: Sidewinder on March 08, 2012, 01:14:42 pm
Nice save Pearl Drums. The tiller looks great and the contrast with the Mesquite is cool.  Danny