Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Otoe Bow on August 16, 2007, 09:47:45 am
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Has anyone ever tried persimmon for a bow? We got tons of that, and most grow pretty straight. Back in "the day" persimmon woods were the thing to have in golf clubs. Its got beautiful grain patterns to boot.
Also, should trees of any kind for a bow be felled in the winter when the sap is down?
Again Thanks.
Otoe
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I have used persimmon.You should drop it now and the bark will peel right off,and there is the back of your bow.Don't split it to narrow or it will likely twist.Seal the ends and back because it is bad about checking.If you get it good and dry it will make a fine bow and the color is beautiful
without any stain at all. :)
Pappy
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Got to agree with pappy, but have to say that persimmion is harder than any other wood Ive tried. Heard that back in the day they made gears and other tools out of it . Hope to finish the one I started at Pappys soon.
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I think they made golf clubs out of it.It reminds me of Dogwood when seasoned,very hard. :)
Pappy
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I have used persimmon.You should drop it now and the bark will peel right off,and there is the back of your bow.Don't split it to narrow or it will likely twist.Seal the ends and back because it is bad about checking.If you get it good and dry it will make a fine bow and the color is beautiful
without any stain at all. :)
Pappy
Pappy: So I peel the bark while still green and seal the ends and back? If I remember correctly, the bark does come off relatively easy while green in that we used to make whistles out of it which involved cutting off a branch, sliding the bark off, notching, etc. and sliding back on
Do I air dry or use an oven such as the "stove pipe" design that Cowboy talked about in another post for his Osage billet?
Is 140 degrees about right? In this weather, that's about the temperature in my workshop when closed up. Should a fan be left on to keep air circulating?
Sounds like I have a plan for a few hours this weekend.
Thanks to all.
Otoe
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yes, the bark is taken of when green so that it is easier to do.
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I wouldn't quick dry it,at least not right off,it is bad about checking.I would just air dry it for a few weeks on months if you have the time.Then thin it to bow size and then you can quick dry it
without much problem.If you are in a hurry you can take it to rough bow size and seal it all over and clamp it to something so it won't twist and put it in a dry low humid place and it will dry pretty quick.Remember it is very important to seal it good all over and clamp if you thin it down. :)
Pappy
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Thanks Pappy: I took the Lab and Springer for a walk in the pasture last evening. I found several nice straight persimmon trees, one that could yield a 4"-5" log about 5 feet long before getting into any limbs. Based on that size, do you think quartering it would be about right for reducing it down while drying? I'm not in any any real hurry, so I want to take my time.
I also found a very nice, slightly curved, Boise d' arc tree about the same size. While the chain saw is out, I might as well harvest it as well. I knew we had a lot of it, I just never really saw the "trees for the forest". My walks with my dogs have taken on a whole new perspective.
We seem to be getting a slight break from the heat today courtesy of the remnants of TD Erin. It's a good time to take another walk.
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I'd say split in half would be enuf any smaller and it may twist.
Once ya start making bows you start looking at trees everywhere ya gotta be careful when driving though ;D
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What Dana said,unless it is pretty good size. :)
Pappy
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Workin,on my first Persimmon Bow now.Got a stave of it,from Kowechobe.Ill probly be the only guy with a Persimmon Bow,in the State Of Nv,providen i dont screw it up.LOL
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Hey Ya'll,
Let me know how that persimmon bow turns out. I've never tried it, and I'm curious as to how it turns out!
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Well guys, my first foray into working persimmon is off to a twisted start. I dropped the tree, topped it and took the 77" log back to the shop. I started off with a sharp draw knife removing the bark, but was afraid that I was going to go through the sap wood into the back. I switched to a dull draw knife, and starting at the end, worked the blade under the bark and popped it off easily.
Then using a small ax and wedges, I started on the trunk end and started to split it. My original plan was to quarter it. On the first run, the split started twisting and I ended up with two halves with the ends rotated about 45 degree. I tried halving one of the halves and the split ran about 30 inches then split off to the edge. With that kind of luck I decided to leave the other half alone and if it's salvageable after it cures, just work it down with the draw knife.
I put a heavy coat of paint on each end and the peeled back. I then placed them in the rafters of my shop.
Despite the twists, the wood was pretty clear and had only one knot on the inside that was not visible prior to splitting. The center did reveal a dark streak that I originally took as rot or fungus. Closer examination revealed charcoal. Counting the rings, the tree survived a grass fire about 27 years ago. Everything else looked good with the exception of the twisted grain. :(
I was soaked with sap and sweat when I finished and the wife wouldn't let me in the house, otherwise I would have taken pictures then to get your opinions on whether the billets are salvageable. I'll get them back down tomorrow and let you see them.
Is this common on persimmon? After seeing some of the remarkable things that you guys do with some really bazaar pieces of wood, I just hope I'm able to pull this off.
Thanks.
Otoe
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Thats why I don't cut local persimmon or sassafras. You have to study the bark real close to see if it twists and if it does the tree is twisted. I don't know how persimmon reacts to heat straightening but at least it worth a try. Pat
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Otoe may I make a suggestion, if you really want to make yer first bow why not start with
a good quality red oak board. Should be easy and cheap. Go to George and/or the Ferrets site
for directions on choosing a board and building directions. This is a great way to learn how to tiller
and there is nothing wrong with a board bow. Hope this helps.
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Did you cut the osage too? I would try it before the persimmon. Board bows are fine but I spent a long time before I found one that was good,then I called a cabinet maker and got a really good piece of red oak from him,so you might try that. Auggie.
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Auggie: No, I didn't get to the Osage as I'd planned. I ran out of time. Don't worry, I know where it lives so it won't get far. ;D I put the persimmon up in the rafters and I'll let it sit a couple of months, then get it down and probably smoke some brisket or back strap with it. I doubt it will be much good for any thing else, but who know, I may get surprised. Either way, it will help put meat on the table.
DanaM: Thanks for the reality check. I got overly ambitious. The other day I noticed my horses in a persimmon stand for shade and I thought, "what the heck". (Don't worry, I left them plenty to keep them out of the sun). I'll definitely give the boards a try. Would the principles be the same for Ipa as well as and red oak?
Thanks guys, I appreciate the sage advice.
Otoe
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DanaM: See there I go again with the Ipe. I just went to Georges site for board bows. I'll stick to the red oak for the first one, I promise. But then again, I'm the kind of guy that will try and catch the laser pointer dot on the wall. Maybe I should listen to my own advise that I give my wife: "Step away from the shiny things".
I do have a question and maybe you or George can shed some light on it. On his site for board bows, one of the pictures of the braced bow appears to have the handle and the Buchanan's Dips on the BACK of the bow. Is this the difference in a stiff handled and flex handle bow?
Otoe
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If yer refering to the red oak english longbow pic I believe that it is just a backwards grip. I've seen a few posted on here.
Perhaps Jawge will see this and shed some light. By all means cut some trees down and get them drying for later on.
I started with 3 ash boards from the sawmill cost about $20. I resawed them for proper grain and went to work. Its great
for yer confidence when you get a shooter. I've only been at this since last november and am working on my first stave bow now.
Good luck and have fun.