Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => English Warbow => Topic started by: Dane on August 21, 2007, 09:19:51 pm
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Hi, gang. I have wondered for a while if bow builders from, say, the 14th century, used specialized tools no longer in common use, and if so, are any really different from what we use today, such as draw knives, rasps, scrapers, etc. As well, how about benches and such? My understanding, possible false, is that the shaving horse is a bit of a more modern innovation. Probably bow makers used sturdy work tables, much as we do?
Thanks in advance,
Dane
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Actually, I believe many of the tools we use today were available then. Planes were known at least near the end of the medieval period. Draw knifes, toothing planes, scrapers, axes and many others were also available. But one thing that was not available was a measuring tape or ruler! Think about it! Common standard of measurment were only being used, back then, by a select group of artisans such as masons and others that did simmilar work. The best thing I think they used to draw straight lines and take measurments with was the....The Lowly STRING! Think about it. You take the size of the person building the bow to, measure with a peice of string, add a bit more for length. Now you have the bows length. Lay it out on the stave and mark along the string for the centerline. Next fold sting in half and you half and lay out on stave center line from on tip. You've found the middle of your bow. Do again to find midlimb.
Any of you guys know anymore about it I would also like to know more for re-enacting purposes!
David T
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Hiya!
14th century is not exactly my forte, so I have no source exaclty for thatz time at right now. For late 15th and early 16th century though, I know there's a book manufactured in Nürnberg at that time, which depicts numerous handwork done in that area and period. The book's named "Das Hausbuch der Mendelschen Zwölfbrüderstiftung in Nürnberg" which roughly translates to "Housebook of the Mendel Twelvebrotherfoundation in Nürnberg". I attach a few pictures here, which might be interesting in the context of bowbuilding.
I find it noteable that, while there's alot of tools like planes, various axes and chisels (just as David wrote already), there's no drawknife pictured - nowhere in the whole of pictures in fact. There's no shaving horse anywhere either. It seems they worked a little different back then. There's obviously no bowyer pictured (which tells us that bowbuilding was not very common in Nürnberg then), so special tools they used might be now come to our knowledge relying only on this book. Other sources suerly must be checked to be more certain.
However, I do not think we can postulate a drawknife or shaving horse "out of the blue" Not for practical reasons, because the managed similar task wihtout it, and surely not as "we'd like them do have had it".
If there's any evidence for those tools however, I'd be glad to know of it - I'd love to use those tool reenactmentwise as well.
For earlier ages (10th/11th cerntury) read the next post...
[attachment deleted by admin]
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- more pictures from the above book
[attachment deleted by admin]
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As for earlier times (about 1000 ad) , there's the Mästermyr toolbox. The wooden box was found in Gotland, Sweden. It conatains a whole lot of tools and is by many considered the premiere source for the early ages.
I do not want to rewrite what other have written properly already, so I just link you guys to the original articles:
- The Mästermyr Project - An effort by the members of TheForge (http://netlabs.net/~osan/Mastermyr/)
- Woodworking in the Viking Age (http://www.vikinganswerlady.com/wood.shtml)
- Authentic Tools in the early middleages (german site with some nice pics) (http://borre.twoday.net/stories/547529/)
Still no shaving horse, but we at least have draw knifes and moulding knifes here! Nice, isn't it :D?
My conclusion:
- Shaving horse: not adequate for any period of time, unless we work with enormous speculation rather than with historical fact. Again, I'd love to use it myself, so any proof is welcome.
- Drawknife: Correct for early m.a. for sure. And I would say, tolerable for later ages as well. It's kind of a stretch, but it can be justified, due to two main reasons. 1.) It is likely that the Twelvebrothers' Book does not depict every single tool used at that time. 2.) A tool that handy and valuable won't likely be abandoned for any reason at all. We see many tools not having changed much when we compare the two sources. The tasks to be done haven't changed alot either and technical revolution was still to come in later ages for tools as such.
We might always remember what we know, can conclude and have to speculate though.
Hope this did help,
Heiner
(reenacting 11th century alright ;)
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Now, I found something s.h.-related. There's a 16th century book called "De Re Metallica" by german scientist Georgius Agricola. In it is a picture of what seems to be a simplified version of the "dumbhead" shaving horse construction. It looks quite like it, but without the option to work the piece in any position but plain horizontal. See attachment no. 1.
On another page I found pictures of a pretty old dumbhead-shaving horse. While that surely isn't of medieval times, it might help understand the dumbhead-construction better fopr those who are not familiar with it:
(http://www.motherbedford.com/ShavingHorse1.jpg)
(http://www.motherbedford.com/ShavingHorse3.jpg)
(http://www.motherbedford.com/ShavingHorse5.jpg)
That leaves us with pictorial evidence for a very simpel shaving horse in the 16th. For earlier ages there seems to nothing kown, so unfortunately we still have to get along without a s.h. for most of the middle ages...
Heiner
P.S.: Links to the pages I found this on:
http://www.motherbedford.com/Cooper.htm
http://www.bloodandsawdust.com/sca/horses.html
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There is reference in this link http://www.bloodandsawdust.com/sca/horses.html
To shaving horses in publications such as De Re Metallica dating to 1556 and even earlier with sketches. Would not be a stretch to push it back a few hundred years, But without documentation?
Dick
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Good info and thougts, Heiner and Dick. I like the page on Viking woodworking tools especially, though that is familiar data already. My adze and bearded axe are repros of those finds, and really nice tools.
Ideally, I'd like to use only proper tools that are documented depending on what kind of bow I am working on. I'm making an 80 lb. longbow right now for a Viking reenactor, using Osage instead of yew (too pricy for me now), and it would have been more satisfying to use strictly 700 - 800 age tools.
Dane
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Franco,
Surely picture four shows a draw knife being used?
From what I have read it seems the guilds of both bowyers and fletchers were highly organised and fairly standardised. Arrows seem to have been to a basic common length and performance. Bows also seem to have been failry standardised within basic limits. Standardisation is necessary if you are buying bows by the thousands, seperately to arrows by the million and strings by the barrel. Even if measurements vareid between countried and times, there were common measures in place and enforced. Sadly, very little was written down, apart from toxiphilen which is a pain to read!
Mark in England
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I thought so myself Mark.But at the bottom of the picture it says harness burnisher.I gues for shining leather.
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Surely picture four shows a draw knife being used?
I wondered that too. But the man seems to be making armour.
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It looks like some kind of crescent shaped blade in a straight handle? There is another on the ground in front of that little bench.
Dane
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@ Mark: Yeah, that surely looks alot like a drawknife, doesn't it? But as said already, that man is burnishing/polishing an iron harness.
I gues for shining leather.
I concur, but we cannot be sure without knowing more about their methods of polishing at that time. But be it what it may, it definetly is not a drawknife :(.
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I cant believe that none of you guys have mentioned the bowyer's float (or 'flote'). The way I had it explained to me was a piece of dense wood, with a handle on the back, with individual steel pieces set into it like the teeth of a very coarse brush. It was sharpened by rubbing it on a flat stone, and then used as a sort of super dreadnought file.
The only online references I can find to the flote would be at:
http://www.barker.demon.co.uk/bowyers/public/arms.html
http://www.heraldsnet.org/saitou/parker/Jpglossf.htm#Float
[note: non-commercial links]
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Jeesh! That would sure make planing out a bow a lot easier. Would like to see a detailed picture of one though so we can build one. Bet it would save a lot of time making the bows.
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Looks to me like the guy using the "harness burnisher" is using a draw knife to shape a male wooden pattern over which a piece of armour could be hammered.
I don't think any useful tool could burnish steel in the way suggested! Apart from making a horrid noise and maybe doing a little scratching I can't see that it would achive anything else!
Mark in England
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I've seen a harness burnisher like that. It's actually a piece of wood with leather attached. The leather is impregnated with abrasive (pumice, or what have you) and rubbed on the parts of armor that need cleaning up. It works a treat, kind of like a strop for razors.
-Ben
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Jeesh! That would sure make planing out a bow a lot easier. Would like to see a detailed picture of one though so we can build one. Bet it would save a lot of time making the bows.
I have actually found one of these, and have now ordered one for myself, and one for a friend (a better bowyer than I!!) Unfortunately it is from a non-PA-advertising (as far as I know) primitive supplier in Europe, so I cant add a link here. When I get it (2 weeks or so) I will post a picture.