Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Filip on April 06, 2012, 09:09:55 am
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Hello everyone! This is my first post on this forum, I'm writing it because I wanted to ask you for help with tillering. So far, this will be my second bow and I hope I get it right this time. The handle on my first bow came off, I tried to repair it but it keeps coming off so I abandoned it in the shed and now that the season has started, I'm left with nothing to shot with.
So this bow I'm making now, while I have time off school, is a pyramid bow backed with two or three layers of linen fabric. I aim for about 40 - 45# at 28''. So far I got it to a brace height but I think my string is little too long as the distance from the handle to the string is less than a hand and a thumb.
This is it when it was braced for the first time:
(http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/5809/dsci2118.jpg)
From what I can see is that the right limb bends more near the handle (is that good?) than the right one but generally it is more stiff. What do you think? Should I make the left limb bend more near the handle or is it good as it is?
Now another matter, do you think it's twisting a little? It might be because of bad roughing out.
(http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/6312/dsci2114.jpg)(http://img848.imageshack.us/img848/3665/dsci2115.jpg)
I want to shoot three fingers under and I can't remember if the limbs should bend evenly or one a touch less?
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Before continuing you might want to cut out your handle.
Anyways for your tiller I think you could give a couple scrapes in the right mid limb, other wise it looks good for a low brace. If you want to shorten the string, twisting it should allow you to get to your fistmele. Folding one of the nock loops on itself to make a slipknot of sorts will shorten the string even more.
The handle on your first bow is popping off because the wood underneath it needs to be stiff. You might be able to turn it into a D-bow if the handle area isn't too thin.
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you can lay the handle out similar to this, also go to the how to's and at the top is the tillering gizmo, make one of those and it'll make tillering your bows way easyer, Bub(http://i623.photobucket.com/albums/tt320/bubncheryl/blade-7.jpg)
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looking good but we need to see it draw back a bit more.
Don't pull it more tan final draw weight or to any point where it starts to look too uneven.
Del
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I would also strongly recommend making a "tillering gizmo" if you have not yet made one. Here is a picture of the one I made. This is an older pic before I finished it, I can take a finished picture if you would like. It was very helpful in my tillering process.
(http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/3771/0317122033.th.jpg) (http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/3771/0317122033.jpg) left click to open in a new bigger window
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I often leave a handle unfinished until I'm ready to start drawing the bow, especially if I think the bow is pushing the envelope and might fail. I always leave it a little thick so I can clamp it hard in the vice without spoiling the finish. I shoot 3 under and make my lower limb a little stiffer. I'm with Del, seeing it drawn further will really help. Be careful of scraping too much right off the handle.
George
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The best advice I can give you is to TAKE.....YOUR....TIME. Dont rush it, we all have to fight getting impatient and wanting to finish a bow. Just take you time on this. Slow and steady wins the race for turtles and for bowyers. :)
Dane
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As for the first bow, I did consider turning it into a D-bow but I have cut an arrow rest into the handle so I'm not sure how that will work, I might look into the matter some other time.
It's quite busy in the house today, if I find some time I might pop into the garden and cut the handle out as you suggested. If there is some time left I will draw the bow a little further and tiller it and yes I am using the tillering gizmo, quite a useful tool :)
Dane, that is a good advice, I indeed was trying to rush it a little.
Thank you for all the help, I'll keep you updated.
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DANES RIGHT I built over 100 bows and I tiller at a snails pace.
What your looking at today will be look totally different tomorow.
GO SLOW NEVER OVER STRESS YOUR LIMBS.
I file in my handle and shelf in the bow along with the limbs . AFTER I GET THE LIMBS TO HANDLE STRAIGHT. I ruff in my handle And keep working it in as I build the bow. This way I keep the handle in line as I work in the limbs. Just the way I learned to do it with a stave. A board you can be a little more to form and add later. With a stave your handle has to be but in with curves of the stave. May have to be moved a little one way or the other.
I'm no saying it the right way but it is for me the way I build my bows.
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I'm with Crooketarrow, with a wide grip you can adjust it to be in line with the tips as the bow progresses and it gives some room for adustment. No need to rush the grip. IMO grip final adjustment is one of the last things to do as part of the tuning or the bow along with the arrow pass, nocking poit etc.
It's a good idea to leave your tips wider during tillering to allow some lateral adustment of the string line and to help compensate twist if you do get some.
Wide tips wide grip gives you tons of adjustment.
Del
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I can see a minor hinge developing in the left midlimb. Nothing major (yet), but just don't scrape the midlimb for now. Instead, you need to scrape the inner limb (from handle fade up to midlimb) of the left limb. That should sort the slight hinge out. I like the bend in the right limb better, although that one could indeed also use a mild scrape as Dauntless points out. It's just minor corrections, really. Take.......your......time!
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So I went down to the garden, the weather was nice, and i worked on the my bow. I did what you guys recommended, thank you for that. I have cut the handle and tillered it a little more, now it can be drawn to about 24''. Could you take a look at the photo and say if the tiller looks alright and I can pull it those 3 or 4 inches further without a problem. The draw weight should come out just perfect.
(http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/1143/dsci2147m.jpg)
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The fade in the left limb is (still) a little bit stiff. Compare the bend in the left fade to the bend in the right fade. The limb on the right starts bending closer to the handle. Scrape the first ten inches from the fade ten times with a card scraper, and then check tiller again. Repeat if necessary.
You're very close now. Don't pull it to the full drawlength yet! Resist the temptation...
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Dido DarkSoul ,Looking good,you are almost there ,what weight and draw are you looking for ?
Pappy
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Your so close and at the point where i wanna see what the bow looks like drawn in the hand. Because it can vary and differ a little sometimes compared to the tree. I have an arrow marked every inch so i know exactly how far im drawing. So if your down to 24" then check it drawn to 24" in your hand. And id use the left limb as your bottom limb because that real subtle stiff spot in the fade there could open up more if drawn in the hand,or it could not. But it will tell you better what you need to know at this point in the game IMHO.
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Alright I went and corrected the fades, this should look better but now the right limb is stiffer. Do I have to correct that if I want to shoot three fingers under?
I know that the draw length is 28''. Being honest, I don't really know what draw weight I want. My previous bow was about 35 pounds, so I want this one to be around 40. My scale is in kg not pounds, I guess 18 kg, around 39.7 pounds will do just fine.
Blackhawk, I'll get those photos of the bow drawn in hand hopefully some time today.
(http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/9200/15725893.png)
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That looks pretty darn good to me,I would shoot it and then check again.Nice job. :) :)
Pappy
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It's not fully tillered yet, I got 4 inches to go before I get to 28'' unless I can try shooting it at 24''?. If I get the tillering done today or tomorrow I'll go the archery grounds, Thursday afternoon, and shoot it couple of times
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I like to shoot them some at the shorter draw,sometimes that will change things
from what you get on the tree just exercising them. :)
Pappy
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Oh I see what you mean Pappy, I would do it now if I could. I don't have a target in my garden and archery club only uses the field at certain times and days :( I wish I lived in more remote place where I could just go outdoor and find some clear, open space where I can shoot...
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Heck I used to shoot behind the dumpster at my appartment complex. Wound up meeting a neighbor who was also a tradtional archer. If theres a will theres a way, Ive even seen people shoot horse bows in their appartments!
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Yes you need to shoot it at 24 and use the now stiffer right limb as your bottom limb. Also important to check the tiller when hand drawn. Good luck!
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Now there you can see the bow drawn by hand, right, stiffer limb at the bottom. I only shot one arrow down into the ground, I will hopfully shoot some more tommorrow at the club.
(http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/4462/dsci2150n.jpg)
Unfortunately the handle is a little small . I have used Bubby's design but at the start it was 6'' not 8'', I have changed the dimensions but kept the ratios/proportions, anyway the grip is 3 inches not 4. Could I change it so that if you look at the design, the dimensions go 1'',4'',1'' or will that cause some sort of risk?
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Update!
I went hunting for earthworms in my garden. Yesterday I shot about 110 arrows into the ground pulling the bow to 24'', today I gave ten shots before taking a picture. Have a look at the photo please, what do you guys think? I plan to get up early in the morning, get the draw length to 28'' and go shooting at the club ;D
(http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/7199/dsci2154.jpg) (http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/2313/dsci2155.jpg)
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i think it's looking pretty good, you can reduce a lot of mass buy trasitioning the fades into the grip area and it will be a lot more comfortable(http://i623.photobucket.com/albums/tt320/bubncheryl/Picture002-21.jpg)
you can remove all those sharp anglesand round it all together
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Like Bubby says, transition the scallop of the grip to just before where the fade gets thinnest at the start of the limbs and it'll be more comfortable and look better. About where the red lines are on this pic. Just make sure the widest part of the limb (from the back view) is just before the thinnest part of the grip fade (from the side view). Other than that, the tiller looks great!
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You have been great I can shoot again! Thank you very much for the help! I went shooting today and it has been pretty good, I get very little, if any, wrist slap. The only thing that I didn't like or perhaps wasn't used to is that I couldn't see the tip of the arrow when the bow was drawn, I still have the handle to shape as you suggested but whether I could see the arrow tip then doesn't really matter as I could aim with the knuckle.
So I have the handle to shape and the overall finish to apply but that will be done some time in the future, I won't have much time as I'm going back to school and the exams are getting closer. I'll post pictures of the bow once it's finished.
As for the finish, I was thinking beeswax because I have more of it that I would ever need for waxing the string. I heard that it can be used, I'll have to research that a little more. Have you used beeswax before? what do you think about using it to waterproof the wood?
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I've used it and think it works very well. My preference is to mix it about 50/50 with deer fat. Heat it up slowly and rub it on with a rag. It will soak in pretty quickly on endgrain, so i usually dip the tips in the melted wax/fat. I tend to reapply this a couple times per year, or more if I use the bow in damp coniditions as the wax will eventually wear off the bow's surface. I'm sure other finishes would do a better job of sealing and protecting the wood, but I like using the lower-tech option. Plus, I think it smells good :)
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mix the bees wax with mineral oil, makes pastwax and will rub in real well, or mix with deer fat, if ya have it , Bub