Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: 4est Trekker on May 16, 2012, 02:24:45 am

Title: Shorty Hickory Molle
Post by: 4est Trekker on May 16, 2012, 02:24:45 am
Here's a 58" ntn (60" oal) hickory molle I built about three months ago and just got around to photographing.  It pulls 38# at my 26" draw.  It's got highly trapezoidal and thin levers, a tempered belly, rosewood tip overlays, and very slightly pyramidal working limbs.  The slight angle of the full draw shots makes the fade area of the top limb look strong, but it's just an optical illusion.  Thanks for looking!

  (http://i984.photobucket.com/albums/ae321/isaacscr/Hickor%20Molle%201/Hickory-Molle-1.jpg)
  (http://i984.photobucket.com/albums/ae321/isaacscr/Hickor%20Molle%201/Hickory-Molle-2.jpg)
  (http://i984.photobucket.com/albums/ae321/isaacscr/Hickor%20Molle%201/Hickory-Molle-3.jpg)
  (http://i984.photobucket.com/albums/ae321/isaacscr/Hickor%20Molle%201/Hickory-Molle-4.jpg)
  (http://i984.photobucket.com/albums/ae321/isaacscr/Hickor%20Molle%201/Hickory-Molle-9.jpg)
Title: Re: Shorty Hickory Molle
Post by: 4est Trekker on May 16, 2012, 02:25:02 am
Here's a few more pictures:

 (http://i984.photobucket.com/albums/ae321/isaacscr/Hickor%20Molle%201/Hickory-Molle-5.jpg)

 (http://i984.photobucket.com/albums/ae321/isaacscr/Hickor%20Molle%201/Hickory-Molle-7.jpg)

 (http://i984.photobucket.com/albums/ae321/isaacscr/Hickor%20Molle%201/Hickory-Molle-8.jpg)
Title: Re: Shorty Hickory Molle
Post by: danny f on May 16, 2012, 03:39:06 am
great looking bow, nice work.
Title: Re: Shorty Hickory Molle
Post by: Del the cat on May 16, 2012, 04:02:14 am
Lovely clean and stylish.
Great tiller.
Del
Title: Re: Shorty Hickory Molle
Post by: Judo Point on May 16, 2012, 05:13:53 am
That is awesome 4est!!! That's really a sharp looking bow. How does it shoot?
Title: Re: Shorty Hickory Molle
Post by: Pappy on May 16, 2012, 06:33:16 am
Beautiful bow,very nice work. :)
   Pappy
Title: Re: Shorty Hickory Molle
Post by: bubby on May 16, 2012, 06:46:30 am
winner winner, chicken dinner, another great looking bow 4est, Bub
Title: Re: Shorty Hickory Molle
Post by: Peacebow_Coos on May 16, 2012, 06:48:17 am
That's a rad lookin stick man, I dig the levers.  Gonna try that thanks :)
Title: Re: Shorty Hickory Molle
Post by: lesken2011 on May 16, 2012, 08:58:20 am
Sweet lines and bend on that Molle, for sure!! Nice job, 4est!!
Title: Re: Shorty Hickory Molle
Post by: Sparrow on May 16, 2012, 09:57:33 am
Very nice ! Tiller looks great  '  Frank
Title: Re: Shorty Hickory Molle
Post by: H Rhodes on May 16, 2012, 10:12:01 am
sweet!  Great work.
Title: Re: Shorty Hickory Molle
Post by: Hrothgar on May 16, 2012, 10:28:01 am
Beautiful bow and finish- extreme definitive lines!
Title: Re: Shorty Hickory Molle
Post by: Dane on May 16, 2012, 10:45:17 am
This is a terrific bow. Thanks for sharing this. Inspiring work.
Title: Re: Shorty Hickory Molle
Post by: Nifty on May 16, 2012, 10:48:57 am
I love Mollies. I think I'm going to have to attempt one.

I especially like the color contrast on this one with the toasted belly and dark tip overlays, and the side profile shape of the levers.
Title: Re: Shorty Hickory Molle
Post by: 4est Trekker on May 16, 2012, 11:11:08 am
Thanks, all :)  This little bow shoots well compared to what I anticipated with the design of the levers.  In truth, there's not much wood there, as they are only 1/4" wide along nearly all of their upper (back) length.  There's no hand shock, it draws and releases smooth, and hits hard...(we all say that about all our bows, huh? :) ) This is the first Molle I've built, and my first time getting serious with hickory.  Not exactly the best pairing between design and wood species, but I've been happy with what I've learned about both. 
Title: Re: Shorty Hickory Molle
Post by: dwardo on May 16, 2012, 11:58:49 am
Artwork that little beast. Great design and execution.
Title: Re: Shorty Hickory Molle
Post by: ErictheViking on May 16, 2012, 12:42:42 pm
Sweet work man! 8)
Title: Re: Shorty Hickory Molle
Post by: Ambow on May 16, 2012, 12:47:26 pm
I've never commented on these boards nor have I ever built a bow.  Just been lurking and trying to learn as much as possible before I start.  But this bow is absolutely amazing!  I hope to have half the skill/artistry that it took to create this bow one day.

-Ryan
Title: Re: Shorty Hickory Molle
Post by: rps3 on May 16, 2012, 01:58:42 pm
Great looking bow. How do you keep those ultra thin tips from bending sideways? Do the string and limbs need to be in perfect alignment to avoid that problem?
Title: Re: Shorty Hickory Molle
Post by: Adam on May 16, 2012, 02:06:36 pm
Wow! I'm very impressed. That's one great looking bow!
Title: Re: Shorty Hickory Molle
Post by: mikekeswick on May 16, 2012, 02:29:31 pm
Good tiller and nicely executed design. I would say though that you could remove about 1/3 of the thickness of the tips and really help to speed it up. I've made lots of these bows and you might be surprised by how little 'extra' thickness you need. Remember that if you increase thickness by only 1/8th you double the draw weight.
Title: Re: Shorty Hickory Molle
Post by: k-hat on May 16, 2012, 02:37:58 pm
That is one amazing piece of hickry!  Love the simple finish and the natural beauty of the wood.

Did you use a board for this or a decrowned stave?  Never tried a molly, but that makes me want to!
Title: Re: Shorty Hickory Molle
Post by: blackhawk on May 16, 2012, 02:57:12 pm
Good tiller and nicely executed design. I would say though that you could remove about 1/3 of the thickness of the tips and really help to speed it up. I've made lots of these bows and you might be surprised by how little 'extra' thickness you need. Remember that if you increase thickness by only 1/8th you double the draw weight.

Ditto what mike said....ive made a bunch too and its only normal to make them either too wide or too deep(or both) your first go along with the lever bows....i went thru a progression with them just to see how far(thin,narrow,n shallow depth)i can go with them,and just by sight of pictures alone you could easily reduce depth of thickness from them without costing any durability issues,and only gain better performance than it already is.....the lever bows are addicting to me because of exactly what you stated in its smooth to draw and release yet hits hard....make another one ;)....and maybe play with your working limb to lever ratio and go longer on the levers like 50/50 ;)....thats as far as i have gone and soon ill be trying even more like 60/40....it looks like yours is about 30/70(meaning a third of your limb is a lever).....im sure it still shoots well as is tho ;)





Title: Re: Shorty Hickory Molle
Post by: country on May 16, 2012, 03:14:57 pm
NICE.... definately a piece of art
Title: Re: Shorty Hickory Molle
Post by: Slackbunny on May 16, 2012, 03:57:05 pm
Very very cool. That is one nice bow.
Title: Re: Shorty Hickory Molle
Post by: Ifrit617 on May 16, 2012, 06:05:10 pm
very nice bow!

Jon
Title: Re: Shorty Hickory Molle
Post by: beetlebailey1977 on May 16, 2012, 08:05:13 pm
That is a very nice looking bow.  I like it a lot.
Title: Re: Shorty Hickory Molle
Post by: 4est Trekker on May 17, 2012, 11:12:55 am
Thanks again for all the kind comments, gents :)  I built a few bows with brush nocks (see pic below for reference) and invariably get the same question about hand shock with those bows as I have with this one.  You would be very surprised with the performance of this bow...I know I was.  Those levers may fool you (just as brush nocks often fool people) into assuming there must be bone-jarring shock upon release.  IF I use a proper arrow (i.e. not too light) and a properly aligned draw/release, it's as smooth as butter.  I found that when I go below 8 gpp in arrow weight, hand shock suddenly appeared.  I found the same when I got tired and lazy, letting my alignment go to pot.  However, the latter two scenarios happen on almost all of my bows.   

As I was constructing it, I did some geometric calculations and found that the levers contain LESS wood than if I had finished the bow along a traditional pyramid side and back profile.  That one got me thinking! :)  Could they be thinner?  Absolutely yes!  But man, are they narrow!  As such, I left some meat there just in case I have one of those "oops" moments in the woods  ;)

Oh, and as a secret...this one started with a 60/40 ratio between the limbs and levers...until the accident.   :o  We won't talk about that, though!   

Thanks again for the comments and critique, all. 

(http://i984.photobucket.com/albums/ae321/isaacscr/Trade%20Bow%20for%20Eric%20Thieman/HPIM5318.jpg)
Title: Re: Shorty Hickory Molle
Post by: 4est Trekker on May 17, 2012, 11:20:32 am
rps3:  Sorry...forgot to answer your question.  The levers are trapezoidal in cross section.  That keeps them rigid enough to avoid bending sideways.  Regarding string alignment, I found this bow (next to my first few English style longbows) to be the hardest to maintain proper alignment.  Whether it was this particular design or the specific piece of wood I was using, it seemed that none of my tricks would work.  In the end, I think I just got lucky, 'cause I certainly couldn't figure it out!  :)  But to answer your question, string alignment is very important, not only at brace, but throughout the draw.
Title: Re: Shorty Hickory Molle
Post by: blackhawk on May 17, 2012, 12:58:12 pm

Oh, and as a secret...this one started with a 60/40 ratio between the limbs and levers...until the accident.   :o  We won't talk about that, though!   



Oh please do ;) 
Title: Re: Shorty Hickory Molle
Post by: 4est Trekker on May 17, 2012, 01:44:58 pm
Well, blackhawk, it all started when I thought to myself, "You know, I could have these tips whipped out yet tonight if I hogged off the bulk with my bandsaw..."   ::)  Three days later I finally had my boo-boo all fixed up.  I learned two things in the process, though:

1) Always use sharp blades (which I did)
2) Never swat at flies whilst using a bandsaw (which, unfortunately, I also did)
Title: Re: Shorty Hickory Molle
Post by: k-hat on May 17, 2012, 03:15:40 pm
Lol, the same goes for getting distracted whilst running a stick through the table saw!!!  Never done that ::)
Title: Re: Shorty Hickory Molle
Post by: lesken2011 on May 19, 2012, 10:11:14 am
Just curious, 4est, what length & weight were you shooting for originally? I mean before you had to pike the levers? Just curious what weight you thought this design might handle at say, 66"oal? I love the design and have made a couple standard molles, one red oak and one hickory, but never heat treated the bellies and they both came in light. It should handle 45-55 lbs, don't you think?
Title: Re: Shorty Hickory Molle
Post by: dragonman on May 19, 2012, 06:16:49 pm
thats a really cool  bow and looks verywell made
Title: Re: Shorty Hickory Molle
Post by: 4est Trekker on May 19, 2012, 11:06:46 pm
Thanks again, fellas. :)

lesken2011:  I was shooting for the finished weight all along (36-38#@26").  When I piked it, I had to remove weight.  Tempering the belly added some weight, too, but I lost the bulk of that increase whilst shooting it in and finish sanding it.  Regarding your last question...I'm no expert on this design (this was my first molle, actually).  But a classic bow wood like osage, ash, hickory, etc. can easily withstand higher hunting-weight draws with this design.  I wouldn't trust red oak (which you mentioned) for any bow design that uses as sort a working limb length (molle, holmie, etc.)  Others more experienced with this design will hopefully chime in.
Title: Re: Shorty Hickory Molle
Post by: Prarie Bowyer on May 20, 2012, 09:44:47 am
Nice!
Title: Re: Shorty Hickory Molle
Post by: PeteC on May 20, 2012, 10:29:59 am
Very nice bow.I like everything about it.Great work. God Bless
Title: Re: Shorty Hickory Molle
Post by: Jodocus on May 20, 2012, 02:40:53 pm
Very cool, simple yet stylish!
Title: Re: Shorty Hickory Molle
Post by: mikekeswick on May 20, 2012, 04:33:55 pm
lesken2011 - red oak will make a hunting weight bow in this or any other design. My 1st question about your red oak bow is did you trap the back? Red oak is a tension strong/compression 'not so great' wood. It can handle the back being 30% narrower than the belly - this takes a lot of compression stress off the belly and will give similar 'increase' in compression strength as heat treating. Seriously try it! I've been doing a fair bit of experimenting with this principle and it really does work :) I've just made a maple bow with this principle and it holds 1 inch reflex.

Back to those tips - if you notice a little handshock when going below 8gpp then it would suggest to me that a little weight can still be removed. Maybe if you make another like this you could try making them thinner and then compare the two of them. I've found that when just a fraction of bend can be seen by holding a straight edge against the lever section at full draw(I mean a fraction like less than a 1/32nd) then they are as light as they can be. I'm not meaning to sound hyper critical or anything it's just i've made a fair few of these and wanted to pass on what i've learnt from them.
Title: Re: Shorty Hickory Molle
Post by: blackhawk on May 20, 2012, 05:23:52 pm
Ive made lever bows out of hackberry,hophornbeam,elm,osage,and black locust (that i can think of off the top of my head)...and my favorite wood for these is osage because of its compression strength and elastic modulus. Although the others and other woods will work as long as you keep the width proper in the working limbs and heat treat them,and trapping will help to as Mike suggested. I have a strong inclination that yew wood be even better than osage for this design,due to its lighter SG yet very elastic and compression strong....hopefully later this year ill get to test this inclination out. Hickory is a good whitewood for mollys due to its indestructibility
Title: Re: Shorty Hickory Molle
Post by: 4est Trekker on May 21, 2012, 12:47:20 am
Thanks, all, for the "tips" on the levers :) (No pun intended)  I get gun-shy with new designs and short bows.

I should also add one detail that I forget to post originally, and that being that the bow is pretty heavily trapped.  That, combined with the belly tempering, really seamed to even out the compression/elasticity ratio. 
Title: Re: Shorty Hickory Molle
Post by: Prarie Bowyer on May 24, 2012, 04:22:22 pm
How do you get the photographs so perfectly highlighted around them.  Is that a grey wall you painted and using photo shop to spray white around or some sort of artistic spot lighting?