Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: PrimitiveSkills on May 31, 2012, 03:04:26 am
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Hi, I'm in the process of trying to make a bow with hackberry I would like to know from people that have experience working with hackberry on how to shape the bow (and perhaps a few tips)?
-PrimitiveSkills
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Run a search (http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php?action=search) for "hackberry" on this forum. It sounds trivial, but honestly, it works like a charm :)
Also, Paleoplanet (http://paleoplanet69529.yuku.com/search/text/forum/18?q=hackberry) has a lot of info on hackberry as a bowwood.
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How about telling us some more details or pics of your stave,and whats your intended draw weight and length??
And it doesnt hurt to do a search like darksoul mentioned....lots o topics about hackberry
Ive worked with hackberry quite a few times....its a good wood if treated right
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67" long, 1 3/4" wide flatbow design. Heat treat it if possible.
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Good luck with your project. Make sure you post pics of the finished product :)
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Thanks people for the replies, I learned a lot but for the dimensions, how thick should it be? I'm not talking about the width cause I already know that.
I'd also like to know how to shape the handle, I've been thinking to make it look narrow from front and the back of the bow, and make it look long from the sides.
-PrimitiveSkills
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Uh...thickness is determined by tillering....you cant apply a certain mathematical number into selfbows to acheive your desired weight and length...which you never stated yet??
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You will never find me making a post about hackberry that says anything against that wood. Oh yes, I do love me some hackberry!
Do you have a style of bow that you feel attracted to more than any other? Second, what kind of draw length are you pulling these days? And for that matter, how much do you think you are going to grow in the next year? With that information we will better be able to give you some dimensions that will be a starting point for you. We'll be glad to give you any help we can!
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A Mongolian/Turkish style bow is very nice IMO but i figured it would be too hard, a normal recurve is my next choice and ATM I'm pulling 26.5 inches gonna grow quite a lot in the few years my estimate is to about 28 inches.
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How many bows have you built so far? Recurves and Mongol style bows dont just happen with good instruction from the web. Im assuming your brand new and thats cool. Build a flat bow or five and then consider recurves and such.
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Great, with a draw length range to work with we will be able to calculate how much bow limb you must have.
If you double the draw length you will have a basic idea how long your bow should be in the simplest form possible....a D bow. When strung it looks like the letter D. It will bend thru the handle section and all the way out to the tips. The entire bow "works" from nock to nock. Let's just say you feel like building one to fit you now at 26.5" of draw. Double it. Fifty-three inches from nock to nock, not counting whatever sticks out past the string nocks on each end of the bow.
With hackberry, I'd make sure it was at least 1 3/8" wide in the handle section and then tapering down to about 3/4" wide at the tips. If the grain of your hackberry is anything like what I have here, you can almost lay out the shape of the bow using a yardstick and a pencil! If there is any twist and/or snakiness to the stave you better follow the grain more closely than I just described.
Now if you are interested in building something you will grow into, then double the 28" draw for a 56" bow.
That's just ONE man's opinion.
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Sounds to me like a great opinion however was thinking about going somewhere around 67" in length cause that way I would be able to get some power behind an arrow if you know what I mean. ;)
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Limb length has absolutely nothing to do with strength of the bow or the power it produces. I will guarantee in writing you cannot get full draw of the sinew backed osage Sioux horsebow in my shop. It's 36" long, has an 18" draw that pulls almost 90#'s. Heck, I can't pull it, I black out trying to string it!
Generally speaking, longer limbs need longer draws to actually get efficiency from them. In order to get a "load" on the back of the bow with longer limbs they will need to be thicker. By adding mass to the limbs you actually slow them down. In order to counter this issue of heavy and slow limbs you will need to make them lighter by making them much narrower. That's how the classic English longbow (ELB) works with such deadly force.
It's all about trade-offs and what you are wanting.
Ok, go 67" tip to tip. Narrow the bow down to about 1 1/8" at the handle and bring the tips down to less than half an inch. Keep it rectangular in cross section. You can allow the grip area to be a little stiff now, making more of an elliptical tiller. Being a longer bow it will probably shoot more consistently, too!
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Yup that's exactly why i want a longer bow: consistently and forgiving, probably better accuracy too. Always good to have a stiff grip, BTW I know that the length hasn't anything to do with the power it's the stiffness of the limbs :).
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BTW I know that the length hasn't anything to do with the power it's the stiffness of the limbs :).
Thats incorrect......do some more reading and researching before you go making incorrect statements...and better yet make some bows....you can read, read, read, and do lots of research,but untill you actually get your hands dirty you really dont have a clue......how many real bows have you made?
Stick with a simple flatbow...no recurves yet...pearl drums gave you the best dimensions,and research how to heat treat,and heat treat it
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BTW I know that the length hasn't anything to do with the power it's the stiffness of the limbs :).
That's incorrect......do some more reading and researching before you go making incorrect statements...and better yet make some bows....you can read, read, read, and do lots of research,but until you actually get your hands dirty you really don't have a clue......how many real bows have you made?
Stick with a simple flatbow...no recurves yet...pearl drums gave you the best dimensions,and research how to heat treat,and heat treat it
Don't worry I'll use his dimensions and of course I'm sticking to a flatbow this is my second bow, but i have quite some experience in re curve and compound shooting and i always though the poundage comes from the limbs, can you give me you're answer of where the power comes from then?
-PrimitiveSkills
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The energy that goes into an arrow is not just due to the "stiffness" of the limbs...in short theres several factors at play like proper mass placement in your limbs(if you had "stiff" limbs but baseball bat sized tips you wood have a crappy bow even tho the working limbs are "stiff"),the front and side view profiles,and matching your tiller to those profiles,how much set your limbs take,and string follow......much can be written on each of those...
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There is a fantastic book called "The Traditional Bowyers Bible". It's a compilation of chapters written by a number of legendary bow makers. The chapter on design is more physics that you will be able to choke down in a year's worth of study. I have had that book on my nitestand for 8 years now. I am still going back to the chapter on bow design and learning new stuff on a regular basis.
It's the building of the bows that help me understand what I'm reading in that book. You don't learn near as much from shooting a bow as you do making one. Heck, I have been driving cars and trucks for 35 years, but I don't know squat about making one, much less making one that is a good performing and well designed model!!!
Same could be said about my experience with women. >:D I'll leave understanding them to the One that made them.
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Don't got the money for the Bowyer's Bible yet, though I might ask it for my birthday as it seems like a requirement to be a good bowyer :).
LOL are you seriously considering even trying to understand those complicated creatures we call women :D.
-PrimitiveSkills
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It's hardwired into me, can't help m'self.
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I am a beginner myself. So not much experience in my words, but some knowledge bout people and beginners in general:
Build whatever bow you want to.
Nothing will give you joy and perseverance like doing what you want to do. It may go wrong, but that's when you learn something. All beginners in any trade have that, the sense of what is doable and what not cannot be taught.
Everyday I warn my kids: don't run so fast, you'll slip. Don't climb up there, you'll fall. Oh, you fell? didn't I tell you? You could have listened, why did you think I was saying this? Absolutely futile :P
But one advice still, though I am not sure this one's better than all the others: go SLOW! look at my buildalong, I am making a recurve and it is my second bow. It took me over 40 hours so far, and it'll be some more till I'm done. Patience is ever helpful, but you'll only have it when you do what you want to.
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go to your local library and ask for them...if they dont have it on hand they usually can get it for you from another library within a few days
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I downloaded the first volume in PDF format :D.
-PrimitiveSkills
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I started making bows around 12 years old and with no outside help it is hard. There a lot of really good bow makers on this site and I wish I had it when I started. The bowyer's bible are good but for the real beginner Jim hamms "bows and arrows of the native americans" is great. Information is spelled out in plain english and covers all basic bow making knowledge. That was the first book I had and still have it 20 years later. Not saying anything bad about the "bibles" but this book is a little cheaper and will get you off to a good start and when you can afford the bibles get them. I also have to say the BIGGEST mistake I made when I was younger was trying to make a bow out of wet wood. Watching wood season is the first thing you need to learn!
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When I first got started in this thing about 5 yrs ago, I read everything I could get my hands on. I harvested wood and processed it to cure, began assembling the tools I needed and bought a couple hickory boards from a local cabinet maker so I could start making shavings. When I finally made the plunge and started making shavings, the thing I learned the most was that we learn from our failures. Yes, sucess encourages us that we CAN do it, but it is the looking back at our failures and making adjustments so that we don't make the same mistakes, that helps us grow in our craft. So, start making some shavings.
One other thought, simple design to start with is a pyramid because it tapers from the fades to the tips and the belly thickness is the same throughout. Not real complicated there. I don't recall what draw weight you were shooting for, but I am sure that Pearlies dimensions will work because his stuff is well documented and I am sure he figured in a little safety measure so that its a bit over built to start with. Danny