Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: AJMag on June 27, 2012, 07:07:46 pm
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The thought of starting an osage stave has been riddled deep in my mind since my first board bow a while back. Well it seemed as good a time as any to get one, and to add to the excitement, it shows up on my birthday ;D
Bought this one to start with. I'm going to tiller one more board bow I have, just to work on that skill some more, and in the mean time practice with chasing some rings. I have plenty of violated top rings to mess with before getting down to a non-violated, so this should be a fun, long experience.
It's 68" long and varies between 1.5-2.0" on the back side. My initial thoughts are something around 66" unbacked. I suppose the width and weight are all still to be determined until I find a suitable ring and see where the dimensions are. I'd like to be able to use it as a hunter, and wonder if it should end up being rawhide backed anyways, especially in this Houston humidity...? If it all works out it will definitely be getting snake skins.
Is there any other recommendations anyone can think of that might help in this Houston environment, such as, does the belly need to stay shellaced as well as the back and ends when not being worked on? Also, would 1.5" wide or a tad smaller be ok for 66" long and 28" draw? Feeling open to design opinions, I've got time to think about it before anything really happens with it. Anyways, not trying to write a book here, just wanted to share my excitement and show off the most beautiful thing I've ever seen (I'm not married so I'm safe to say that ;)).
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Looks like a nice piece of hedge. If you chase a good ring then there is no need in backing osage unless you just want to for peace of mind. Osage tolerates humidity pretty well ( much better than whitewoods). As for sealing the ends and back it depends on how dry the wood already is, but you can shellac the back on the new ring when you get it exposed if you want to. Do you know how long it has been seasoning? If it were me and I didnt know how long it had been seasoned I would work it down close to bow size and then leave it inside the house in a controlled climate for 2-4 weeks before I went any farther with it. I've never had much luck speed drying osage, it usually develops checks. As for your dimensions, Ive made several osage bows from 45-55# and 64" long and 1-1/8" to 1-1/4" wide. You could go wider if you wanted to but osage doesnt need that much width. Hope that helps.
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Cool, thanks for the input. I can't say for sure how long it's been drying but I bought it from Mike Yancy. I definitely figured it was worth it to spend the cash when I knew I could call him with details about what I wanted, plus all the good things I've heard. And I sure did get a straight and narrow stave, just like I requested for a stave newb! His descriptions on the website say they sit for a year and a half or so.
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If your not working on the stave I would advise you to seal the back and ends with something just for a piece of mind. I have Osage that has been cut for 16 months that will still check on you once in a while. By the way looks like you got a real good one. Dean
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mighty purdy piece of yella wood ya got there.
have fun!
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I'm with Okie, 66"L , 1 1/2"W, no need to back it if the woods in good shape. Take a draw knife and work it down to the ring you want. Draw your bow out and whittle it into shape. Start thinning the belly down till it's an inch thick or so. Handle and fades 2 ". At those dimensions, if it's not dry now, it will dry pretty quickly. I'm north of San Antone, so we don't have y'alls humidity but it's pretty high at times. Keep it in the air conditioning and you'll be fine working it. If it starts to show a little set when floor tillering, let it dry a week or so and then continue on your merry way. Good luck and stay cool. VERY hot here right now. 110 yesterday at 6 PM!
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Only bought one stick o' wood from Mike Yancy and it was a pretty premium chunk of hickory.
Great thing about having those violated rings on the back is the practice of chasing a ring. If the wood tears out as you are chasing growth rings, immediately STOP. Spray a few coats of shellac or spal a coat of cheap-o latex paint on the back and let it cure a few more months!!!
It don't take much osage to make a bow. That's been said time and again on this site, and it's awfully true. With your 66" length (and assuming a draw length around 28") you got plenty of extra length for safety. you might get away with a bow as narrow as 1 1/8 inch wide coming out of the fades.
Good luck! Post Pics!~
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Well happy birthday to you! Nice looking hunk o gold there, enjoy the process ;)
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Slimbob I feel you there, brother. It's hard to keep the wood from being rehydrated by my sweat, then the humidity.... ::)
JW I've seen a lot on here about it not taking much to make a bow, but I've been a little more questionable just because of the humidity levels here, combined with my lack of stave experience and the idea that I plan to use this thing ALOT. So far, the 6" I've been working with seem dry and ok. If I allow the draw knife to get deeper into a growth ring it will start to run some, but not far or deep at all before breaking. To me it does seem pretty dry. I think me and this wood will become good friends.
Soy, thanks. I'd say it became one for the books! I think I'll document this build for memory purposes and post a few towards the end..... or along the way if I need help/ideas.
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AJ, if you leave it unbacked you can pretty much ignore the humidity. I would only back it (with rawhide) if there's a flaw in the wood that worries you. I'm in Dallas and I don't see any difference between my unbacked osage bow in the humid spring and dry fall. My sinew backed bows are a whole nuther deal. Where you are I would not sinew back unless the design demands it. If you go with a 66" bow, make sure you narrow the tips well or it'll have some hand shock. With osage, I think the longer you make the bow the narrower it can be. An inch and 3/8 is a good place to start. I agree with the guys that that looks like a very nice stave, and that you should seal the back with shellac as soon as you get a ring chased. I do that now no matter how seasoned the wood is. You do not need to seal the belly. As for how the wood reacts to a draw knife, what I notice with green osage is that it wants to tear into the ring below around knots. Seasoned osage wants to follow the ring and you can sometimes hog off several rings at a time and it will still stay on the correct ring. Love to work it.
Good luck, I'm anxious to see what you come up with. We're getting enough Texas bowyers that we need to plan an annual primitive hog hunt someplace. If you feel like a road trip sometime bring your stave on up to Dallas and I can help you get going.
George
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Thanks George. From what I read on here I was figuring that sinew would be out of the picture. I understand what you're saying about the green/dry wood and tearing. Sounds like what I've touched so far is definitely dry. So far I'm feeling pretty good about this wood from ol' Mike. And it does work so much nicer than board wood.
I'm feeling ya on the idea of a Texas gathering. We need to go Waco and take over Nuggent's ranch, throw away his compounds and hunt his hogs the right way. And I may have to take you up on the offer sometime. I'm actually a converted Grapevine guy, lived there for 17 years, and just moved to Houston a couple years ago. So I'm up there every few months to visit friends and go camp the Red River.
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I agree, it sounds like your stave is dry. However, Dean is right that sometimes a seemingly dry stave will have some moisture stuck in it and check when it shouldn't. If I were you I'd keep a can of shellac close and seal on the back what you've chased after each draw knife session. I've grown real fond of the spray shellac Lowe's sells.
Ted shoots recurves and longbows. I'm pretty sure if we brought him a self bow he'd hunt with it. I'm not sure at all we could get on his ranch though.
Grapevine's about an hour west of my place. I live just north of Wylie. My shop's available most any time. Course it's usually a mess with osage shavings and flint shards everywhere. These days it's real handy to have the pool 10' from the shop door. I do all my work with a swimsuit on.
George
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I've got some spray urethane, but if shellac is better I'll have to check out Lowes. I know Home depot by me doesn't carry it in a spray, which I'd rather have.
Yeah I know Ted does have some traditional, I'd like to see it more on his Spirit Wild show though. If he does use it more than I'm aware of then I just haven't seen it. I think he has more than one place down here, because he does allow paid hog hunts on his ranch, but I'm not too sure that it's the same area as his house based land, but it wouldn't be the first time I was wrong. At any rate, I'd trade him a bow for a chase or two, especially at one of those fallow deer he has access to.
Is Wylie getting close to Forney? I know the name but that's one of the few areas I've ever ventured to. Most of my stomping ground was between Grapevine and Justin, over by the Texas Motor Speedway.
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Check Lowes, they don't always have it, but the last time I was there I bought another can. The advantage of shellac is that it can be removed with rubbing alcohol. You'll have to scrape or sand off poly. If you aren't backing then poly is fine if that's the finish you'll eventually use.
Well, Ross and Martin are supplying bows to him. Not surprising they're featured as advertisers. I don't know how often he shoots traditional, I just know he has the bows and that he says he shoots them. Have never researched his hunts. He films his TV show often at the YO ranch.
Wylie is quite a bit north of Forney. It's east of Plano about 12 miles.
George
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If gstoneberg's pool water looks a little yeller, don't worry. He is still fairly continant...it's just the osage shavings leaching into the water!
Hoping to make it to Texas next spring for that get-together that is fast becoming an annual event. Maybe I'll see you there, AJ. Make sure you have that bow done by then so I can see it!
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Well...... I've had a few days off now, and lets just say that..... I'm addicted to this board! I've dang near chased every ring, down to the chosen ring, one at a time to get the hang of what's happening. All I can say is I'm starting to understand why so many people say they enjoy this wood.
This first pic is after I reached the first unviolated ring and was able to choose one. I chose the ring under the pencil line and traced the ring end to end to make sure I had a reference line.
The next is just a general look at the shape of the back after I reached that ring. I was very meticulous about just barely removing the early ring before it so the entire length of this ring is still just as thick as it started out.
The last two are after I roughed out the shape. It has a natural reflex to it which is cool, but the tip on the left has some twist to it that I might need to do something about. It's only in about the last 6" or so of the limb. I went ahead and roughed it out at right about 1.5" to make sure I have room if I need it. Better safe than sorry, at least on this first one.
So, what ya think, fellas? Any input so far?
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Looks like you got it going your way. Looks like a really clean piece of osage and you did a great job chasin that ring from what I can tell. I cut all my own wood but if I ever had to buy a stave it would definitely be from Mike Yancey. Hes a class A guy and Im fortunate enough to live about 10 minutes from him so I get to go by his shop and visit him frequently ( probably more frequently than he would like me to). I wouldnt worry about that twist unless you just want to heat it out, doesnt look like enough to hurt anything. The only time I heat small amounts of twist out is when Im already planning on adding reflex to a stave and then you can do it all at the same time.
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I'm pretty up in the air about the twist. It's seen in the first pics, in the middle section of that stave. I had to take two inches off that end due to a small check, so the result was that hard upward bend and a twist in the grain. I also want to put some wood overlays on it, which will be new to me as well compared to boards. So I'm concerned about how it will turn out. If I do decide to remove the twist, would you suggest dry heat or steaming? I know it seems this is a debatable topic, but I'd rather here it from people who are seeing, hearing and understanding my thoughts and concerns.
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Dry stave=dry heat. Osage bends extremely well with the proper amount of dry heat. To remove twist, I put a C-clamp on the limb sides so the screw of the clamp is angling up. Hang some weight from the screw handle. Some good sized wrenches will work. Heat the area you want to untwist and when you hit the right temp, the weight will slowly pull the twist out. Go a little past straight because it will spring back a small amount. I usually support the limb right before the weight so it doesn't cause any accidental deflex. If you want, I can take a picture of what I am talking about and post it tomorrow.
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Thanks Osage, I understand what you're saying. I had a actually seen a few photos of what you're describing. Dry heat - check. One of these days all this info I read daily will sink and I'll start remembering which methods ya'll recommend for what woods..
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Actually, it is dry heat + wet wood = check. Dry wood bends wonderfully with dry heat. I would certainly get the bow bending before taking out the twist, otherwise it's too thick and takes an awful lot of heat and time. If you wait until the bow is nearly tillered it won't take much heat at all.
Good luck,
George
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I made up a short string for it and put it in a low brace tonight after starting some tillering today. I'm wondering if you guys have any advice or opinions on how to work the tiller with the reflex on that right limb. Also A little teaser on the tip overlays I worked up for it. Pink ivory under bocote. I thought about waiting to share those tips, but I'm feeling too proud not to share.
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It might be just me but it kinda looks like youe edges might be alittle sharp...If that is the case ya might want to round them off before you do anymore bending.If a splinter is gonna lift it will do it on a sharp edge.
As for working out the reflex you could either heat in matching reflex on the other limb( making them both equal) or heat out the reflex in the reflexed limb leaving a straight limb profile on both limbs..
Reflexed bows can be touchy to tiller so either way take your time and only remove small amounts of wood and exercise the limb in between scraping sessions...
She is looking pretty good so far...Good luck
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Nice tip overlays! In a stave like yours I would heat bend a little reflex in the straight limb so it matches. It isn't necessary, you can tiller it the way it is, but it's easier to tiller limbs with similar shapes. And I like easy.
George
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As an alternative, I made an Osage bow some years back from a stave that had similar characteristics as this one. The handle has a fairly big knot in it, which causes the limb below the knot to deflex and above it to reflex. Tricky to tiller. I ultimately deflexed both limbs to match and reflexed the tips. Looks Neolithic and shoots sweet. Never did really get both limbs to match in deflex, but close enough.
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The tiller doesn't look completely perfect to me, but it looks better from one side than the other. So there's a pic for each side. Both pics make the limbs look hingy on the right, which I think is a reslut of the angle of the camera. If I had the luxury at the moment of having someone around to snap a pic for me I'd show one from the side, being drawn.
I left room in the weight for sanding and finishing from my desired weight of around 55lbs, and after about 40+ arrows down range, my scale reads right about 58 lbs at 28".
My ol man hasn't even seen it in person yet and it sounds like he's got his thoughts set on one of his own. Since he's not near patient enough to do this, I think I may get a chance to make another one pretty soon and work on my tillering skills. This was so much fun that I don't know how I could ever go back to red oak board bows.
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Better get started on his bow! Do it before the withdrawal shakes start, trust me.
And yeah, you will make another red oak board bow. You are a junkie and you can't stop yourself now. Welcome to the addiction.