Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Badger on July 06, 2012, 01:03:00 am
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I set out to build two bows for the up comming flight shoots. This particular bow will be for the unlimited broadhead class. I have an osage stave and a yew stave. I figured I would build them together step by step and see how they would go through their paces side by side.
The osage started off about dead even with no reflex or deflex, nice flat clean back and plenty of width to work with.
The yew was nice and dense but had 1 very large knot in the main working area of the limb and a medium size knot in the lower stiffer portion of the limb.
The original plan was to rough them out and then go for about 80#@28" allowing about 28 oz of mass for each bow.
Normaly with yew I reduce the mass about 10# but because of the knots I figured I would leave it. This is how they looked once I roughed them out
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At this point the osage stave was around 40 oz and the yew stave around 33 oz. I didn't want the osage too narrow so decided to give them slightly different designs but still stick with the draw weight. I gave the osage an extra long handle and fade area, close to 14" and I induced about 3 1/2 reflex. This raised up the projected mass to around 31 oz.
The yew bow had a natural deflex of about 1 1/2" so I decided to tiller it out a bit before I made any decisions about reflexing. I tillered it out to about 80# at 26" I think and it only took an additional 1/2" of set. At this point I decided to only slightly reflex the outer limbs maybe 1". I was surprised at how much tillering I had to do after reflexing to get the bow back to 80#@26" it picked up a lot of weight. I lost most of the 1" reflex I added but it is still sitting slightly on the positive side with no deflex. I only heated the outer 1/2 of the limb so will likely go back tomorrow and put about 1 more inch in using the inner limb. The outer limbs will work slightly after I finish narrowing them down
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The osage bow I did only floor tillering on before heat treating and reflexing. I was very pleased at how well it held the 3 1/2" of induced reflex. I have her pulled out to about 87# @ 28" and imediately after unstringing she has 2 1/4" which quicly goes back to about 2 3/4. All I need to do on her now is sand, finish, narrow the tips and fix the arrow pass. I will post that once done along with a full draw.
The yew bow I am really afraid to pull back past 26", I just have a bad feeling. I may slightly lower the weight so she maxes out at 78#@28". I would feel better.
Presently they are measuring out almost identical in a power curve with a very slight edge going to the osage bow. The yew bow has a lower mass advantage so hard to tell which bow will win the spot after I test them on the chrono.
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Very interesting experiment. I look forward to the final results!
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Love the head to head competition ...interested to see the crono results as well as distance >:D
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A thousand Quatloos on the Yew! ;D
Del
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Lovin this so far. How long are these bows?
I'm with Del, gotta bet on the yew being from yew country and all.
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Looking good Steve,looking forward to the results ,80lbs,man you are stouter than you look. ;) ;D ;D ;D
Pappy
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Great experiment, Steve. Excellent bows. Jawge
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Neat little competition you got goin there. Can't wait to see the results!
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Pappy, I can't pull 80#, I have a shooter.
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Randy both bows are 68", one is 67 1/2 but I can't remember which one.
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Neat little competition you got goin there. Can't wait to see the results!
Me too. :)
George
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"The yew bow I am really afraid to pull back past 26", I just have a bad feeling."
I think its kinda cool how with all of our science and technology; formulas and physics words like "feeling" and "instinct" still play an important role in this primitive endeavor.
Great experiment Steve, we can't wait to hear the results! (I'm pulling for the osage but the lower mass of the yew may give it the edge).
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I am kind of feeling like that yew bow would be very fast. Sometimes I talk about bows with what I refer to as hard deflex. Meaning the bow has deflex but still very high early draw weight. Thats how this piece of yew was and that has always been a good sign. I am really leery of pulling that yew any further than 26", just a bad feeling. I think this morning I will drop the weight a tad before I pull it any further. The osage bow I wouldn't hesitate to pull it back to 30".
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This is fantastic. Can't wait to see the finished products. With the yew bow it looks like the tiller is stiff in the outer limbs where the profile looks like it would take more bend. Is that because it's yew or will you be narrowing the outer limbs to keep mass down? I may be off since I'm viewing the pics on my phone. Thanks for sharing these projects!
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Ryoon, outer limbs are stiff on purpose but I will get them to flex just slightly when I finish narrowing the outer limbs. I think I am going to submit the win to the osage bow before testing and limit the yew bow to 26" draw @80# and use it as a light arrow flight bow instead of a broadhead bow. I may go ahead and test them both @ 26" just for the heck of it.
This has probably been my favorite build I have ever done. Both staves acted like top athletes all the way through, I kept thinking of Muhammed Ali and Joe frazier as I worked on them. Neither bow showed any sign of letting up or the faintest sign of breaking down. I felt more like a referee than a bow builder. I am feeling now like the yew bow has given all it can safely give and I don't want to break it. I will probably go ahead and heat treat the inner limb as I did the outer limb and slightly reflex it to maybe 1 1/2" then let the weight settle in below 80# @ 26".
The intensity of a build like this is really exhilerating, too intense for everday but nice once in a while.
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I think I am going to submit the win to the osage bow before testing and limit the yew bow to 26" draw @80# and use it as a light arrow flight bow instead of a broadhead bow. I may go ahead and test them both @ 26" just for the heck of it.
DOWN GOES FRAZIER, DOWN GOES FRAZIER!
nice thread Steve. I was pulling for the yew but at least I didnt lose money in Vegas.
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Better safe than sorry with that big knot though the belly of the Yew.
Gotta put 'em both through the chrono at a similar weight/draw/arrow else I don't pay up ;)
Del
(I think the current echange rate is 1 quatloo to 0.001 cent O:) )
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Here is one of the knots on the back of the yew bow, right in the main working area of the limb, if it were not for that knot I wouldn't have hesitated to stretch it out a bit more.
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Where did you get the yew Steve?
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Brian, Tim Baker had cut this about 15 years ao in Northern Ca. about 40 rings per inch.
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Well, the yew bow complained I pulled him out too soon and wanted to go back into trasining for a rematch. Going to give him a couple of inches reflex and lower his weight to 75# and go for the 28" draw. He will be a light heavy weight fighting a heavyweight, I always root for the underdog
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That's a great style for Yew, what's the cross section like, flattish oval, or is the belly dead flat?
Don't forget a wipe with the magic sponge before he gets back into the ring.
Del
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Del, the heat on Yew has dramatic effects, even more so than osage and the white woods, feels like I will need to take off quite a bit of wood, going to tiller this time with outer limbs working more and narrow them down quite a bit. I have a feeling the yew even at 12# lighter will give the osage a run for its money. I do suspect the osage will come out on top but not sure.
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We all secretly pulled for Buster Douglas to whoop Mike Tyson... ;)
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Here is a list of my 2012 flight team, as I finish the projects I check them off. I got a hole bunch almost finished.
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Steve
Does the Yew have a flat belly or did you go with a shallow D?
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Mark the belly is just very slightly rounded, the back is crowned as the branch of trunk it came from was barely 2". Good wood just very small. Has developed a couple of longtitudal cracks near the knots, I am not too worried about them at this point, no sign of splinters lifting.
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I really don't see a loser in this. Looks like a win win to me.
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Steve
What has you worried about it? Is it the knot?
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One big knot in the main working area Mark, I am allready getting a longtitudal crack there, if it were an elb I would not hesitate to take it about 20# more. The bow is about 1 5/8 wide. 10" of stiff handle and fades. The broadheads will only weigh 500 grains so it's only about 6.6 grains to the pound, I imagine that more working outer limb might be more effective anyway.
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That knot doesn't seem to have enough wood around it for the poundage wanted. I think you are asking a lot of that bow. JMO. It would worry me too. That's a 40# knot. Jawge
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Well, I took it out to 82#@28 1/2" . Real nervous about someone else shooting this bow though. I am going to sand it down finish it up and give it a good workout before I hand it to someone to shoot, I have a strong feeling it will blow. If she doesn't blow my money will be on the yew bow at this point, she maintained about 1/2" reflex and seems to have about the same early draw weight as the osage bow.
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Just an idea as it's semi experimental.
If that big knot and crack is worrying you (and it would scare the cr4paout of me) you might consider taking out a long shallow scoop from the back right over the knot and overlaying/inlaying a nice sliver of clean sapwood. I've done it on a few ELBs, a secondary avantage is it allows you to remove some of the weak stuff round the edge of the knot and fill it with epoxy/sawdust or superglue prior to overlaying the sapwood.
Hope you don't mind the suggestion, I'm not trying to teach you to suck eggs, but it might give that extra bit of security, as you feel a tad uneasy.
Del
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Del, I was thinking of something similar, the knot might be loose enough to just pull out, I could inser a dutcman plug right into the hole possibly, what is worring me more than the knot itself is the growth around the knot, that I don't think I can do anything with, it feels pretty hard.
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I'm not yew expert and have only build 9 yew bows. But dozzens of OSAGE bows. Problely because osage is far more avalible here. But I know you can get away with a lot more with osage than yew. To me yews far more brittle and won't take the mistakes osage will.
You really can judge even between staves much less tpyes of wood staves. Your not dealing with lams amd glass.
You can take 2 osage staves or 2 of any kind the same lenth, design ,weight ,draw lenth and those bows will be different.
WOODS WOOD
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Mark the belly is just very slightly rounded, the back is crowned as the branch of trunk it came from was barely 2". Good wood just very small. Has developed a couple of longtitudal cracks near the knots, I am not too worried about them at this point, no sign of splinters lifting.
Yeah, the way I figure it, the belly won't fail, as it's in compression and any knot showing on the belly will prob be harder in compression than the surrounding wood. It's the tension side and the big hole in the sapwood that worries me, taking a scallop out and patching over with clean sapwood should be stronger than a hole, the dodgy stuff under the patch in the centre of the bow isn't under such strain and as long as there are no voids to collapse it should be ok.
If you can find a bit of sapwood with a slight bulge to mimic the knot the patch could end up looking pretty in keeping with the surface of the back.
Of course, all this is real easy from where I'm sitting ;D, a lot trickier from where you're sitting.
Del