Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Chuck Jones on September 11, 2007, 12:24:44 pm
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Lately I have seen some beautiful first timer bows on this site and it makes me envious. I started off half cocked and didnt find good bow building sites until later. The bow started out at 66" then I filed the nocks going the wrong way. So it has ended up at 65" 51#@26". The first critical mistake I made was to try to taper the handle using by knife grinders 8" wheel. Being very careful not to go into the belly worked for a while. I ended up going into the belly on both sides. I then tried to straighten it out. The result is the funny bending at the handle. This is a first time project and I think that I should have worked the tips a lot more. I have shot it close to 75 times and it shoots well. It has held together with no notice of failure yet. I backed it with rawhide from a white tail shot last year.
I have an abnormal amount of string follow (if I am using the correct term) 3" on the lower limb and 4" on the upper limb. That 1" difference holds true at brace height and at full draw. At brace (using level across top of bow) it is 4" on the lower limb and 5" on the upper limb. At full draw it is 8 1/2" on the lower limb and 9 1/2" on the upper to the top of the bow.
Dont be kind to me I need to learn to do better on the next one...chuck
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Well at least it shoots,that is better than my first or 2nd or 3rd and so on.First off you have way to much bend at the fads and the rest looks stiff.It is easy to do till you learn.If you get them to about the same thickness there to start with it is only natural for them to try and bend there.
I usually leave that heaver until futher along in the tillering precess and take it down slowly.You
got a start some grab another piece of wood and get at it. :) You can get a lot of good info on here along with some sites like Jawge's all you have to do is ask.It might be a good idea to ask first and then proceed. ;D Welcome to the world of wood bows it is like a roller coaster ride ,full of ups and downs.I think that is what keeps me coming back. ;)
Pappy
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Ouch, tough lessons eh Chuck, but you still sound positive. My first bow ended up at 10# so don't feel bad.
My advice is to start a new bow and stay away from the power tools, rasp and scraper with lots of patience,
take your time, post pics, ask for help, did I mention taking your time ;) Hang that one up where you can see it
so you will be inspired to do better. Remember its not a race take your time and enjoy the process. If you live
in area with another bowyer see about hooking up with him. If not don't worry you can do it by yourself with a
little help from the folks on here. Keep us posted eh.
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The power tool on the handle was my fatal mistake. That was the only power tool used and at that time. I used a draw knife for shaping and scraping. After the belly was cut into I tried to even it out. I was going to stop there but there is something about me wanting to finish what I started. I have it finished and it slings arrows good. But I am not satisfied with it and the next one is about ready to start tillering. I have visited Jawges site about two thirds thru making this bow. With the board that I have now I am going to mark it about every 4" and verify that both limbs are the same. So should I start tillering at mid limb to get it bending?? Thanks...chuck
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Chuck, you might check out some of the pics from the bow of the month contest and others posted to get the desired limb curvature in your mind.
Most bowyers leave the last 6" or so at the tips stiffer then the rest of the limb. That doesn't mean the tips are grossly thicker, just a gradual minimal difference in thickness. One of the main things to remember is to exercise the limbs between scrapping sessions to ensure the limbs are accepting the changes. Also, never exceed your desired final draw weight when flexing the limbs. Early on that means you're barely flexing because there's still a lot of wood to remove. Try to keep your limbs balanced with each other, i.e. one not bending a lot more then the other. I also continually check after scrapping to maintain the limb thickness from one side of the limb to the other. It is really easy to apply too much pressure to one side when scrapping, resulting in one edge getting thinner then the other, often causing hinges in the limb. Making such mistakes force you to remove wood trying to rebalance the limbs, often ending up in a light-weight bow.
A tillering tree is an extremely useful tool if you don't already have one. Allows flexing of the limbs while checking draw weight and length at the same time. ;)
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the bow does indeed bend way too much from the fades. My first bow was not tillered at all :D and it still shoots. so dont worry. the next on will be a lot better.
santtu.
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Chuck: Like everyone already said. Take your time, ask question's, post pic's of your bow in progress - you will get the help you need. I got a couple of wall hangers, give away wall hanger's, and broken bow's before one would even fling an arra - so you got that going for ya already. Persevear, it won't take long ;).
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Thanks for the tips. I need to make up a step by step process. I have marked off the next canidate in 4" segments and measured both limbs. One starts out at .76 and the other at .74 so there is already a difference. I need to put some sort of backing on this one but I want to get the limbs as evenly matched as I can...thanks for the input. I am ready for the second try...chuck
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Chuck, I would forget about the measurements of thickness on your next bow and tiller it according to the bend. Tiller actually means bend the bow. Look at some well tillered bows on here and how they bend. Just be patient go slow and take wood off where it is not bending. Have you become familar with all the terms we here? Ask a lot of questions, half the fun we have is working with guys like yourself just getting started. We all have different methods, it may take you several years to decide which one you prefer to use. Some methods work for one person another method may work better for another. I prefer to us the method where I floor tiller the bow ( bend it by pressing it to the floor) until I get a slight but even bend in both limbs when I sight down the bow limb, you can also flip the bow around back and forth making sure both limbs feel and bend evenly. I then take the bow to the tillering tree with a long string, my long string is about the same length as the bow. If I am making a 50# bow I pull the bow to 50# even if it only bends a couple of inches, While holding pressure I examine the bend in the limbs and make marks where they are too stiff, remove a little wood and then back to the tiuller tree for re examination. You may have to do this 100 times to finsih your bow, just be patient and go slow. Steve
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Steve I understand a little about floor tillering I guess the next question would be are you taking wood off of both limbs from the fades to the tip at this point? Of course, just to the point of both limbs bending well...chuck
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Chuck, just a personnal preference but on a normal length bow I like mine to just barely bend out of the fades and then gradually increase to mid limb then start to gradually stiffen up again as they approach the tips. Main thing is just use your eyes to keep them even as you take wood off, once you do a few it gets easier, red oak board bows are great to practice on, inexpensive and not too hard to find. Steve
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Chuck, where are you located? We try to fill in at least the state in our profiles. That is to save time in doing what I am doing. Asking where you are. There may be someone close by that can take a personal look at what you are doing as well as asking questions here. We can direct them or you to each other. Take it slow. My first three bows averaged about 6 week each with all the pondering and vacillating I did.
Dick
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Steve,
Correct me if I am wrong. Looking at the bow that I just cut out at the floor tillering stage with pressure applied the tips up to about 12" are starting to bend some. So, if I am correct I should work the middle third to get that section bending some and then gradually up to the fades before I put it on a tree.
Dick,
I have added information about where I am. I did this yesterday or the day before. I had that same thought that I might be able to meet others interested in selfbows. Thanks for the suggestion...chuck
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Chuck, you can do it that way, but I use the floor tiller to check the symmetry of both limbs after you have taken off some wood. You can see this when you sight down each one of them toward the floor. Only take off enough the stiffer limb to get them near equal. When they look close then put it on a tillering tree and start working out the kinks. I do the middle 1/3+ first and then the tips ever so slightly. Then I work back toward the handle. This is a slow process unless you have done a couple thousand bows. You will do fine. How close are you to Cowboy?
Dick
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Dick,
Thank you now I have a plan to follow to start with. I will start with the middle third and work out both limbs a little at a time and see where that leaves me. I am quite a drive from Cowboy probably 4 hours...chuck
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thanks for posting that. There used to be a lot more early attempts on here, with varying levels of tillering success, including a wild one or two of mine from back around 5 years ago. Its good to see. I recently filed the nock grooves the wrong way on a bow too by the way.
Dave
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Hi Chuck, Well you sure got a lot of interest with this post!. I can't speak for everybody, but I know I've made some real duds. That was especially true at first. I can't rember how many of my early bows ended up way too weak because I was in too big a hurry. For me, using power tools (except the band saw) pretty much just means thast I make mistakes faster. Ron
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..... For me, using power tools (except the band saw) pretty much just means thast I make mistakes faster. Ron
yes exactly; my second bow almost endet up like this-one for the exact same reasons - well, almost means similar tillerprofile, not as bad a stringfollow, but the bow broke pretty soon in the handle ... :(
mistakes certainly can be made fast enough with a tiny little scraper!!! ;D ;D ;D
have fun with the next-one!
frank
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I used to post my "duds" on here in hopes of helping someone else by going over the mistakes or failed strategy. Inevitably a number of viewers would fail to read the post and just look at the picture with all kinds of good advice. I stopped posting them LOL. Steve
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I appreciate the responses and especially the ones that have told me about the first steps to take in tillering. It has been helpful. It is encouraging to know that I am not the only one that had a bad expierence in bow making. I didnt feel that it would turn out well from the initial mistake of gringing into the belly. I am kind of stick to it guy and I wanted to finish the process if for nothing else just to say it was completed. Along the way I made my first rawhide from last years whitetail, I was able to wrap the handle area with it, as well as, backing the bow, I fashioned my first attempt making tip overlays out of antler, and carved my first arrow rest out of a piece of antler. I, also, made a flemish string jig and fashioned my first flemish string. All in all it has been a wonderful expierence and I loved the challenge. Well, I was hoping to be able to use the bow in this hunting season but that dont look good. I received a commercial longbow last Christmas (PSE) and really need to get busy to find a good arrow for it. Lots to do as I have another bow profiled now...chuck
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Dont feel bad
my first bow snapped in my face ;D
Figured out you need to work the bow in a bit