Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Carson (CMB) on July 30, 2012, 05:15:52 pm
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I was at the Pope & Young bow shoot this weekend and got to inspect a Chet Stevenson static recurve of osage. It had an amazingly nice fitting metal take down sleeves. It was approximately 54" (straight line length, not accounting for recurved tips). It had an overall length of 58" when including the recurved tips. It was a very nice piece of osage with almost no early wood. The limbs were narrow, about an inch in the fades, very slightly wider through the working limbs, then tapering back down to an inch through the recurve to a 3/8" nock. It was marked Stevenson 1937. Most of his bows were heavy draw weights of 60-75#, and I am guessing this one is in that range, though I did not string the bow. It was backed with a thin layer of rawhide, that ran the entire length of the bow. It was pretty neat to see this bow in person (thanks Bob Marshall), and to think that it likely shot at the second annual Pope & Young shoot back in 1937!
(http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k633/Acer_circinatum/11-IMG_0347.jpg)
(http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k633/Acer_circinatum/01-IMG_0332.jpg)
(http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k633/Acer_circinatum/04-IMG_0336.jpg)
(http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k633/Acer_circinatum/05-IMG_0339.jpg)
(http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k633/Acer_circinatum/06-IMG_0340.jpg)
(http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k633/Acer_circinatum/07-IMG_0342.jpg)
(http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k633/Acer_circinatum/08-IMG_0344.jpg)
(http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k633/Acer_circinatum/02-IMG_0333.jpg)
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Wow, that is so excellent...what a great piece of Archery History!
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That's a nice piece of history. I wonder if the reflex was intensional or from the heavy bow weight?
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Yeah, I felt pretty lucky to hold it. Mullet, I assume you mean the deflex...I wondered the same thing, it seams a reoccuring discussion on this forum, when looking at older bows, and when making our own.
here are some more pics.
(http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k633/Acer_circinatum/06-IMG_0292.jpg)
(http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k633/Acer_circinatum/05-IMG_0290.jpg)
(http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k633/Acer_circinatum/04-IMG_0289.jpg)
(http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k633/Acer_circinatum/03-IMG_0288.jpg)
(http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k633/Acer_circinatum/02-IMG_0285.jpg)
(http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k633/Acer_circinatum/01-IMG_0283.jpg)
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Dang..that's priceless.....those short sharp 90 degree statics are sweeeeeet :D. Its in great shape too
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Love seeing that kind of history. Thanks for sharing Carson. Wish I could have made it over for that shoot. We had relatives in town from Kentucky
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Very, very cool... That's a tribute to a Bowyers skills... I wonder what it would be like to shoot :)
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Does look like a real nice piece of hedge, growth rings not too tight and even. I just did my first rawhide backing and I am loving that stuff.
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M-O-J-O CITY
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75 year old gem there and the history behind it is to cool, thanks for posting.
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Wow that is something special right there.
I can see Blackhawks wheels turning 8>)
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Look at the color on that thing. Thanks for posting.
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Thanks to everyone for checking this out. I am glad to share it, as I knew this was a place where such a thing would really be appreciated. I would like to replicate that design as well. Let me know if anyone takes a stab at it, I would like to hear how it turns out. I too would love to know how that thing shoots. I asked if it had ever been strung in recent times, and the owner said, Ohh no. Keenan, I was hoping to see you there, but I understand, family is family.
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Even though its a dense piece of osage I think its underbuilt a little for the draw lentgh,bow length and draw weight. And that's why we see the set in the working limbs. Unless whoever had it a long time ago left it braced for too long of a time. But maybe it was designed that way so the working limbs wood have a deflex profile for better accuracy. The only recurve I've ever been able to shoot well is that yew deflex recurve I just made and I believe its because of the profile. Back then they were waaaaay more into accuracy than we are and not as much about performance as we are today. A lot of unknowns with this,and wish we knew.
And yes my wheels are turning,and I am being tempted to give it a whirl. Id prob do it as a one piece tho,and I wood have to scroll thru all my wood for a piece that could take being one inch wide. Interesting its width maintains all the way to the curves. Maybe it was a slim split and that's all he had to work with so he carried the width all the way out? Who knows.
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Thanks for sharing. I realy love those tight curves.
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now that is oregon history..thanks for sharing...john
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Great bow! Thanks for taking time to take the pics and share. The book is a good read too with one of my favorite quotes, "We made our heavy bows heavy, and our broadheads broad."
Brad Merkel made several osage recurves inspired by Chester Stevenson's work. I am proud to have one of Brad's. It is a serious fast shooter and will hang by the recurve on a limb even when braced.
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I seriously doubt that Stevenson underbuilt a bow or worked with what he had. Those old bowyers had access to good materials. The set in the bow could've been from extended stringing although many of the static recurves I've seen have this kind of set.
Shaun does your Merkel static have set in the limbs? How far forward are the tips right after unstringing?
I've shot a few statics, its great to feel the increase in leverage when the string lifts off the tips. As far as building one, I don't think you need to curve the tips more than necessary to have the string sitting snugly on them at brace. Of course you'd better account for the set you're inevitably going to get.
I recall trying a static tip once, the bending was a challenge and the worst part was getting the tips exactly straight. In fact mine wanted to lean and the string slipped off and broke the bow. I haven't got around to trying it again.
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I gaurantee that the majority of the set in the limbs is due to an underbuilt bow. I've built enough high stressed designs to know from experience that a bow that's 56" ntn,has a high draw weight at a 28" draw,and only 1 inch wide thru 19" of working limbs is going to take on 3" of loss in set everytime if not more pending who tillers it. I don't care if you have the best piece of osage that ever was and if you were the best bowyer to ever walk this earth,you are going to incur lots of set with that design. Yeah,you will have a bow and it'll survive and shoot a long time cus its osage,but you will incur lots of set. The good osage we get today is just as good as the osage they had,no different. If no one believes me then go ahead and copy it and start with dead straight working limbs and see what happens.
I'm not trying to bash Mr. Stevenson,just stating the facts of this particular bow. And they built there bows with different intents than we do today.
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It said the limbs were slightly wider than an inch in the working area. Since Stevenson is a master bowyer I'll just say that for him that design was not overbuilt or he wouldn't have made the bow. And for heavens sakes the bow is 75 years old, who knows what the original side profile was and how long it kept it.
I've seen some things done with osage that I didn't think were possible. We all come to our conclusions based on our own experiences but sometimes we're surprised.
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It is a beauty and definitely part of archery history. Jawge
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Fancy bow, in excellent condition, worth several thousand dollars. Chester preferred the shorter bow for hunting, and I'd say he was getting the most out of the stave as he could. Yeah it is deflexed, in the inner limbs, most likely due to set rather than being induced pre tiller. It still has an overall slight reflex, and would be a good accurate bow for hunting.
I tend to agree with Blackhawk, in that if you tried a replica, you would likely need reflexed as well as recurved limbs to end up with that final profile with 1" limbs.
Not necessarily underbuilt, but definitely built by a bowyer who knew what he was doing and could get the best out of a stave. Anyone who has seen Chester's bows knows he was a master.
Hamish.
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Here is a particular photo of Chet's den that shows some of his short osage recurves. Looks like most have similar set, though one or two appear straight through the limbs. hey, set happens man. ;D Another PA t-shirt right there: Set Happens.
Not sure if Chet had a 28" draw or not. He looks shorter than average based on photos with others.
(http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k633/Acer_circinatum/IMG.jpg)
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Set happens! Hey I want royalties on that t shirt. May be Mr Stevenson wanted a short bow for ambush. Anyway, I don't think I'd go up to him and tell him is bow is too short and under built. :) Jawge
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Thanks for showing that photo, I had surfed the web to see what kind of setback was typical in the Stevenson and Grumley statics and wasn't finding much. Looks like this one has a little more set than some on his wall. I think a static with tips at the handle would perform quite well, better than a straight stave longbow. Wonder how many of those bows are still alive? I'd love to have that many bows hanging on the wall.
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tom sawyer - "I'd love to have that many bows hanging on the wall."
Its a good feeling and nice when you find the right person to gift one to.
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Where Chet and his buddies hunted here in Oregon is brushy in a lot of places. Plus they did cover some miles during a hunt. I think the shorter bow lended itself to this type of terrain and travel. He also would take the stage up the McKenzie to the end of the road and then take off through the wilderness. Probably was easier to take on the stage instead of having to hold a longbow out the window...? haha Look at all those bows. He must have been very skilled to make that many fine bows. Wow. Many of these bows are alive and well.
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Anyone still have the bug to replicate this bow? Sorry to Lazarus the thread if not. I don't think anyone will complain though.
PS I don't even necessarily mean the exact materials or the take-down option.
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Im bored..... why not? I even have a set of sleeves. Though if I build it I will intentionally put in the deflex with heat to minimize reduced performance caused by set. ( I believe that helps hysteresis but I'm willing to learn otherwise )
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Just got done hand sawing a 29" section off a 90" log. I will split it tomorrow into two billets. not exactly sure how wide to make them but Im reckoning 1 1/4 inch to start with then go from there. My sleeve is too big so I may make my own sleeve in machine shop later when the time for that comes. I wasn't going to rawhide back it but looking at how nice that backing looks I think I will. I happen to have a nice set of goat raw hide strips perfect for the job.
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Looking forward to seeing the progress sleek. I have a nice pair of glued up billets that are short and narrow enough they just about have to make a bow like this. They came from a lot of bow wood I bought from Dave Doran of Archery Past before he sold the business. The glue-up appears to be several decades old. The only issue is that the billets were glued up with a bit of reflex, so an exact replica would not be realistic. Not sure when I will get to it....
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Wow that's so cool thanks for posting Carson. Those hooks!
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No doubt thats amazing gear. 8)
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Thanks for taking the photos and providing the details on this treasure. What a bow! Love the curves.
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Thought there might be a bunch of guys who may have missed this one. Not often someone posts an authentic documented bow from the glory years of the wooden bow.
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I have made one of these type bows and have a takedown almost finished.
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Thanks for bringing this thread back. I had not seen it. My hope is to one day be able to gift bows. Gota give life to one to give one away.
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I've been giving them away to archery friends and relatives.
I read this thread again but I did not see anything about what Mr Stevenson wrote on the bow. Anyone have any idea?
Jawge
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His last name and the date. I don't think it was inscribed to someone if that's what you mean. He made a lot of bows and apparently had a big sale back in '59 when he thought he was dying. He died 19 years later.
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Very cool, thanks for bringing this one back around
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Very cool.Nice find Carson.Yep I think width would of reduced set too but who knows what he wanted or happened.Some old bows by grumley are a treat to look at too once in a while.
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Really glad I had a chance to see this. It's a fabulous bow!
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I got one almost complete:) the only one that has seen it is Carson
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I got one almost complete:) the only one that has seen it is Carson
Looking forward to seeing it. Did you go as short and narrow? Osage or another wood?
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I got one almost complete:) the only one that has seen it is Carson
Looking forward to seeing it. Did you go as short and narrow? Osage or another wood?
Sure is:)
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Thanks for sharing!
Blackhawk, let's see it.
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Yes indeed, thanks for bringing this thread back up. Glad I got in on this history lesson.
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I got one almost complete:) the only one that has seen it is Carson
Looking forward to seeing it. Did you go as short and narrow? Osage or another wood?
Sure is:)
Sure is what? :)
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I got one almost complete:) the only one that has seen it is Carson
Looking forward to seeing it. Did you go as short and narrow? Osage or another wood?
Sure is:)
Sure is what? :)
Short and osage
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Thanks for sharing. What a nice piece of history.
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What would you guys say a comparable "too narrow" width is in Elm?
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This bow is much more than a nice piece of history: maybe this is one of the best bow- designs ever. These bows had been very common in flight- shooting of the 30ies- 50ies, they could cast a well matched flight- arrow much further than the actual bow- designs.
This bow is a must!
Michael
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This bow is much more than a nice piece of history: maybe this is one of the best bow- designs ever. These bows had been very common in flight- shooting of the 30ies- 50ies, they could cast a well matched flight- arrow much further than the actual bow- designs.
This bow is a must!
Michael
This is true. The bow Harry Drake shot over 500 yards was virtually identical. 60 inches long and just an inch wide. The downside is that the overstrained design will shorten the life of the bow. Drake's bow dropped about 15 pounds after setting the record. He sold it off as a hunting bow which shows that there was probably still a lot of life in it.