Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => English Warbow => Topic started by: Matt Heppe on September 08, 2012, 10:39:57 pm

Title: Bow Three: Ash Longbow (finished bow on page 2)
Post by: Matt Heppe on September 08, 2012, 10:39:57 pm
*Edit: I'm changing the theme of this post. It used to be "Help me cut this nice piece of ash". Instead I'll post as I make progress with this bow. We'll see how it comes out.



I went to my favorite sawmill and they had this great piece of ash.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-LOF6k4SnU40/UEvoSG180SI/AAAAAAAAA2c/mfsCJ7RHMY4/s355/Ash+Longbow.jpg)

It is 3" x 3" x 8'

The growth rings run true the entire length. I recently posted on the "Is this 80# board bow longbow possible?" thread. But now that I have found this piece I'd like to attempt an ash longbow. The great grain of this board will let me follow growth rings and use the board like a stave.

Given a 3 x 3 piece, how many longbows can I get out of it? What should the rough width and depth be for each bow?

If my goal is still 80# how long should my ash bow be?

What dimensions should I shoot for at my widest and narrowest points?

Thanks for your help. This will be my first English warbow. One of the bows from this piece will be a gift for a good friend, so I'd like to do a good job on it.

Title: Re: Help me cut this nice piece of ash
Post by: fishfinder401 on September 09, 2012, 01:23:32 am
is it a true 3x3, or like allot of boards, slightly smaller?
Title: Re: Help me cut this nice piece of ash
Post by: Matt Heppe on September 09, 2012, 10:17:31 am
Good point! 2 7/8 x 2 7/8

Title: Re: Help me cut this nice piece of ash
Post by: }|{opukc on September 09, 2012, 11:11:49 am
70-72" long, 1 1/4" x 1" in center and basic 1/2 x 1/2 " at the tips will provide between 60-80 #. But it would be good to have and backing. 1/6 " hickory will work fine.
Title: Re: Help me cut this nice piece of ash
Post by: fishfinder401 on September 09, 2012, 11:28:02 am
really, i would mabey go longer and a little bit deeper, also, if he is going to chase a ring on the back why would he need or want to back it?
Title: Re: Help me cut this nice piece of ash
Post by: }|{opukc on September 09, 2012, 11:53:51 am
really, i would mabey go longer and a little bit deeper, also, if he is going to chase a ring on the back why would he need or want to back it?

I would not risk it without the support of ash, without natural back then.
Title: Re: Help me cut this nice piece of ash
Post by: Matt Heppe on September 09, 2012, 11:59:39 am
I have plenty of length in the board, and would be perfectly happy to only get two bows out of it. So no problem going with a very long bow.

Would a traditional ash warbow still have the Yew D-shape? Or would they flatten the belly a bit. I would like to make it as traditional as possible.
Title: Re: Help me cut this nice piece of ash
Post by: adb on September 09, 2012, 01:47:36 pm
If that board was mine, (and the grain is as good as you say), I'd cut it into backing strips, and use something like osage on the belly. Especially if you want a deep rounded belly.
Title: Re: Help me cut this nice piece of ash
Post by: Matt Heppe on September 09, 2012, 02:09:43 pm
Deep belly isn't really important. What I really am trying to do is to make a proper, traditional ash warbow. If ash warbows had flat backs, that's fine with me.
Title: Re: Help me cut this nice piece of ash
Post by: adb on September 09, 2012, 10:24:14 pm
Almost all bows have flat backs. An ash self warbow can still have a rounded belly, but perhaps not as deep as yew, ipe, or osage. Being that ash is a whitewood, make it a wee bit wider and flatter if you want 80+ #s draw weight.
Title: Re: Help me cut this nice piece of ash
Post by: Matt Heppe on September 09, 2012, 10:43:59 pm
Sorry, meant to say flat belly.

Thanks for the info.
Title: Re: Help me cut this nice piece of ash
Post by: mikekeswick on September 10, 2012, 03:48:08 am
Rough out to 1 1/4 wide by 1 inch thick at the handle. 73 inch long. Taper to 1 inch wide 12 inch from the nock then down to 1/2 at the nocks. Chasing a ring will give you a very strong back . Ash is very strong in tension and therefore I would trap the back quite severely and also heat treat it. Mildly rounded belly will be fine if you get the heat treating and trapping right.
Title: Re: Help me cut this nice piece of ash
Post by: Del the cat on September 10, 2012, 05:57:19 am
Go with what Mike says.
If the board is a little narrow you can cut it to start one bow at one end and the second one at the other end, that way the widest bit of each bow will be next to mid limb of the other and you will save a bit of width.
(It's easy to forget the width of the saw cut and any wiggles in the cut).
On the other hand you don't want to get too greedy and end up with 4 forty pounders!
In these situations I always aim for one really good stave, anything else is a bonus. Better one good one and a kids bow than two more 40 pounders.
Del
Title: Re: Help me cut this nice piece of ash
Post by: fishfinder401 on September 10, 2012, 12:11:39 pm
Rough out to 1 1/4 wide by 1 inch thick at the handle. 73 inch long. Taper to 1 inch wide 12 inch from the nock then down to 1/2 at the nocks. Chasing a ring will give you a very strong back . Ash is very strong in tension and therefore I would trap the back quite severely and also heat treat it. Mildly rounded belly will be fine if you get the heat treating and trapping right.
i also agree, but one suggestion,if you do make it 1 inch deep, you have enough depth to cut the second off the bottom and have extra width to work with
Title: Re: Follow along, building an ash longbow
Post by: Matt Heppe on September 18, 2012, 12:41:00 am
Well, with a friend's help I cut the board. It looks like I'll get two bows out of the board. One "stave" and one nice quartersawn board bow.

I started the process of reducing the "stave" to one growth ring. I've been using my draw knife and it is going well. I've been using the draw knife upside down and pushing it instead of pulling it. When I pull it right side up it just cuts too deep and creates splinters.

I have some thicker sections of wood to remove and I'm not sure of the best way to approach it. I'm talking 1/4 inch over a three foot section.

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-muN-P3Zqi_s/UFfef_ibD-I/AAAAAAAAA20/7acAq7OCnD0/s827/Longbow.JPG)

So far I have managed not to violate any growth rings. The darker patches are very thin remnants of the previous layer. The darker "crack" is just a discoloration of the wood. I have plenty of depth to the board, so have plenty of room if I have to go down a ring (or three).
Title: Re: Building an ash longbow
Post by: Matt Heppe on November 03, 2012, 11:36:58 pm
The bow is almost done. 73.5" nock to nock. 45# @ 30". Lighter than I wanted, but it is my first English longbow attempt. I'll take some photos tomorrow.

I found the horn nocks pretty easy to work with. However, at one point my file slipped and I scraped the horn. Can I sand the horn? How do I polish it back to a shine? I don't want to cause further damage.

Title: Re: Building an ash longbow
Post by: Del the cat on November 04, 2012, 05:13:00 am
Horn will file and sand just fine, I use wet or dry paper down to about 240 and finally a quick go with 400 grit then buff it up on a buffing wheel (in my pillar drill) loaded with polishing compound
Del
Title: Re: Bow Three: Ash Longbow (finished bow on page 2)
Post by: Matt Heppe on November 08, 2012, 12:13:09 am
Thanks for all the advice while I worked on this project. The PA forums have terrific members. It is a great community.

This was my third bow (not including two kids bows). It was my first English longbow and my first unbacked bow. It started as a 3"x3"x8' ash post. The final bow ended up at 73.5" nock to nock and draws 45# @ 30". My original goal was to go for a heavier draw weight, but too much enthusiasm with the draw knife wrecked those plans. The bow has a "rounded square" profile.

The ash post provided wood for this longbow, two kids bows, and a very nice quartersawn board for a later project.

This bow will be traded to an old friend in exchange for a leather quiver.

Here is the unbraced bow. With such a long bow it is hard to get a good image! I left the ash "in the white" and protected it with five coats of polyurethane. It took 2" of set.

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-ss0HDccHOGQ/UJshDLaPWuI/AAAAAAAABB8/5jdRYFZe7_8/s427/6EEB8C55-4060-47D2-A49C-AC55ACEC3418.JPG)

I had never worked with horn before. I found it easy to work with. Too late I realized I could have made the horn-limb transition smoother. Live and learn. I'll buff it to a shine later. I've also started making my own strings, a process I enjoy very much.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-mikoVJjpNe4/UJshDFdkSTI/AAAAAAAABB8/KZ0j0bteZ2c/s427/331C6AF8-0B45-44F2-AC33-35068F25273A.JPG)

From what I understand, a "true" English longbow doesn't have a handle/grip. However the bow was uncomfortable to handle without one, so I put two layers of leather on the belly and wrapped it with hemp.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-yvS4Bji5pgU/UJshDH4oTuI/AAAAAAAABB8/KMNlRE6yKS8/s427/5876233F-D9AA-4039-B0B5-C8569B828991.JPG)

Here is the bow at 29" draw. The top 1/3 is a little stiff, I think, but I'll live with it. I've adopted a forward leaning stance, with front foot facing forward for balance. I like the stance. It keeps the string clear of my chest and I can get a longer draw.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-OVeA6bTQXvw/UJshDHRgjSI/AAAAAAAABB8/TBdozEObfmE/s427/79B6A0AD-C22F-4257-A403-F329B82A979A.JPG)

I don't know if it is the bow, or the archer, but I'm shooting this bow very well (I was aiming at the deer image from 30 yards). It is smooth and steady to shoot. I am shooting much better than with my other bows. Or it could just be experience.

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-uexEzyGy_Ds/UHt-7NdB4jI/AAAAAAAAA3U/m30ljRzcKQI/s427/photo.JPG)


Title: Re: Bow Three: Ash Longbow (finished bow on page 2)
Post by: Del the cat on November 08, 2012, 09:29:31 am
Nicely done 45# at 30 is pretty respectable.
I like your style, the slight lean forward and hunched over works for me too :)
Del
Title: Re: Bow Three: Ash Longbow (finished bow on page 2)
Post by: Adam on November 08, 2012, 11:25:32 am
That's a terrific looking bow.  It's especially impressive just being your third.  Nice work!
Title: Re: Bow Three: Ash Longbow (finished bow on page 2)
Post by: soy on November 22, 2012, 06:59:49 am
I must try this style...nice bend!  ;)
Title: Re: Bow Three: Ash Longbow (finished bow on page 2)
Post by: adb on November 22, 2012, 10:08:08 am
Very nicely done. Nothing wrong with that! Your tiller is great. Next time if you want more weight, just slow down a bit. The only thing I use a draw knife for these days is removing bark off staves.

Did you get the horn nocks off eBay from the guy in Hungary? I recognise the style. I've purchased some from him and they're reasonably good, and a decent price.
Title: Re: Bow Three: Ash Longbow (finished bow on page 2)
Post by: Matt Heppe on November 23, 2012, 01:15:13 am
Thanks for the kind comments. I have a few more bows in the pipeline before I do another Ash longbow, but I have the wood and will definitely be doing another one.

@adb - Yup, I got them from the ebay Hungary guy. Good price and he sent them right away. I don't have anything to compare them to, but I like them.