Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: johnston on September 18, 2012, 02:32:34 am
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Never will anyone confuse me with a real bowyer but I read a ton on this site and have
learned quite a bit on how some things should be done though that in no way means I
can actually do them. However, the answer to one question has eluded me so I will take
the direct route and just ask straight out.
Many of you build for every once of performance from your bows and know how to get
it. Some build for max durability, some take the time to learn many different styles and
others build something that will shoot. Does anybody out there start from scratch to
build for "sweet"? My definition of that is a bow that carries easily, shoots consistently,
has zero handshock, and is smoooooth..... Of course everyone hopefully likes their bows
and everyone is free to build what they damn well please so to clarify what I mean let
me use strings for example.
Before I had my hands rebuilt twisting B50 was a real challenge. halfeye has hands that
are worse than mine so I asked him how he did it. Artificial sinew, double overhand knot
on top and bowyers knot on the bottom. Can build one in ten minutes and it shoots sweet.
And yet , many scoff at anything less than fast flight. Since our hunting range is usually
less than 20 yds, is the difference that important? I like fast flight but it ain't as sweet to shoot
as art. sinew. Now this string thing is just an example and I ain't too pretty good with
words so I hope you catch my drift. Fat pin nocks are easier for me to string heavier bows with
and so on.....you get the idea.
Skill level is not an issue, remember I said halfeye. I believe we all build what we want to
shoot or try to and we have to have enough weight to do the job on the game we hunt.
But do any of ya'll start from scratch to build "sweet"?
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I build bows for hunting. And for friends. My personal bows are as short as possible for moving through brush and easily packed away for a long hike.
All bend through the handle and feel quite smooth to me.
I'm not quite sure what your asking, but Everyone has the own preference.
I've heard longbows are sweet to shoot, but I've never shot one so I couldn't tell yah lol
I'm not sure what you mean "from scratch" IMO its all been done before.
There is nothing new under the sun.
-Pinecone
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That's my goal on every bow,don't always work out but that's my plan on every bow. :)
Pappy
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I get what you're sayin johnston. A lot of folks get hung up on performance and speed of the arrow. I prefer a bow that will handle the abuse I put it through, and is more functional than pretty.
Tattoo Dave
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Pappy I doubt you miss the mark very often.
Exactly what I meant Dave, thank you.
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A sweet shooting bow can be had regardless of design, it's all in the details.
As to FF, when you can make a good shooting bow then FF just adds to it. Less stretch when the string slams home so more energy goes into the arrow and less stays in the bow which = less handshock. Less stretch so you can actually brace your bows a bit lower without getting string slap which = more energy to the arrow plus less strain on the limbs. You can make the strings much smaller in diameter which = more energy to the arrow plus better economy. Need I say more?
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I'm like Pappy, I try to make all of my bows the fastest, smoothest and as short as I can and still meet my goals.
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As smooth and quiet as I can. I only hunt with my bows.
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As with anything in life , there are trade off's. It's just a matter of getting to know how little of one you have to give up to achieve the other.It's human nature to fixate one one particular aspect such as speed ,that is easy to quantify ,and take it to it's limits. Once that aspect is achieved ,the focus will shift.Perhaps high draw weights or short draw lengths. It's the way the human mind works.Its the reason we have cars with plush leather seats and martini bars in the back ,but we also have cars that will do the quarter mile in less than 5 seconds.For some ,it's the SUV with plush seats ,race car engine,4x4 that carries the kids to soccer.But for many , a no nonsense pickup is the way to go.I think the question you ask will receive as many opinions as there are people ,and then some. Cheers,Dave.
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The two terms are not contradictory. A fast bow is a sweet shooting bow, or it should be.
Nor are no stretch strings louder. Lots of myths still out there where high performance stuff is dimished in the assumption that a little cruder is quieter etc.
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Patm, you are right on. Sweet shooting bows noramly are pretty fast. I don't know anyone who trys to make every bow super fast. Bow making is like any craft, the longer someone does it the better they usuall get at it and are able to get more of all the good things out of a bow. When I can get good linen string I will take it over anything else. Fast flight to me makes bows quieter, faster and sweeter to draw and shoot. Keeping the weight down in the tips reduced handshock and also makes the bow faster. A little bit of reflex will smooth out the draw on a bow and keep it form stacking and also make it fast. All the things that make a bow perform well also make it sweeter to shoot. A well built fast bow will be as durable as they come, not overworking the limbs durring tillering makes them faster and more durable. Definitely not an either or situation.
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That's quite a can of worms to open Lane! Everyone has there own idea of sweet. I think I understand what your asking and yes I try to build every one to my definition of sweet at that particular time. That definition changes with the wind in some aspects, but some details are always consistent. I always like a smooth stackless draw and a quiet, shockless release . I like very little mass on the outer limbs and a well balanced tiller. If these things are done correctly, you get my definition of a "sweet" bow and the speed is naturally achieved in the process. For the most part they go hand in hand. The superfast part, well, I can't answer that. I've never made one. I might some day, but its not high on my priority list right now. Josh
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Well some people may like to drive their old 1970 F150 with coil ignition, carburetors and big inefficient engine but a lot of people prefer to drive a modern truck with fuel injection, electronic, ignition aluminum engine parts to make them lighter and other improvements. You can even have a smaller engine and throw on a supercharger to get the same performance as a big block engine. Personally I sort of prefer the more modern trucks but that's just me
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I choose super fast AND really sweet. But I'm a greedy bastage. ;)
Gabe
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To answer your question...I build a bow to be smooth drawing (no stack) and quiet. Hand shock is not a big issue but the less the better. Generally speaking I hold as true as I can to the design that a Native American would use so I avoid center shot self bows, etc. I also avoid huge arrow rests and often prefer resting the arrow on my hand. Having said that ...of course, I don't want to hunt with a slow bow but my main aim is not to squeeze every ounce of speed from a bow. It's just not an issue with me. I do not use Fast Flight. I use B 50. I just recently split a nock on a red oak bow while tillering with FF. I wasn't even shooting it. I really don't want to put on overlays but because they are not found on the bows of the ancients. So that's what I do. Jawge
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i just shoot for the fastest, smoothest bow, sometimes i get it and sometimes not, none of my bows hit warp speed or anything, but i get a quick one now and again, Bub
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Well some people may like to drive their old 1970 F150 with coil ignition, carburetors and big inefficient engine but a lot of people prefer to drive a modern truck with fuel injection, electronic, ignition aluminum engine parts to make them lighter and other improvements. You can even have a smaller engine and throw on a supercharger to get the same performance as a big block engine. Personally I sort of prefer the more modern trucks but that's just me
If you were to follow that line of reason to its logical conclusion, one might take it that you are now firmly in the wheelie bow camp. Say it ain't so Marc! >:D Josh
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I was thinking the same thing Gun Dock, bit I know better.
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Oh its true. I seen him at the range last week when I was in Quebec. My camera battery died and I couldnt get a pic to prove it, made me cry.....
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To me the best of all worlds is in R/D designs if built and done right. You still get above average performance,the tension at brace remains tight and you feel the "weight" right away when ya start pulling,and then the pull to full draw is steady n constant and smoooooooth like a recurve(but you don't get the noisy "slap" ya sometimes get with sharp statics),and the release is smooth as well,and ZERO handshock if done right,and finally that deflexed handle creates a forgiving shot maintaining great accuracy. I'm a big fan,and guess what my go to hunting bow is???
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"Curvey" the static recurve?
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Well some people may like to drive their old 1970 F150 with coil ignition, carburetors and big inefficient engine but a lot of people prefer to drive a modern truck with fuel injection, electronic, ignition aluminum engine parts to make them lighter and other improvements. You can even have a smaller engine and throw on a supercharger to get the same performance as a big block engine. Personally I sort of prefer the more modern trucks but that's just me
If you were to follow that line of reason to its logical conclusion, one might take it that you are now firmly in the wheelie bow camp. Say it ain't so Marc! >:D Josh
Oh darn, gave myself away :). If that were the case I would be driving around a dragster, not the best looking of vehicles but fast.
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To me the best of all worlds is in R/D designs if built and done right. You still get above average performance,the tension at brace remains tight and you feel the "weight" right away when ya start pulling,and then the pull to full draw is steady n constant and smoooooooth like a recurve(but you don't get the noisy "slap" ya sometimes get with sharp statics),and the release is smooth as well,and ZERO handshock if done right,and finally that deflexed handle creates a forgiving shot maintaining great accuracy. I'm a big fan,and guess what my go to hunting bow is???
I have to admit that I grab an RD bow most of the time when I go hunting.
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Thanks for all the comments guys. And I did not mean to imply that it was an either/or
issue it just came out sounding like that.
Also, I like my bows to be quick but have never tried to max one out. Now if I had the
skills you guys have....who knows?
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Interesting thread... I am still at the stage of hoping the dang things hold together! I think I get what you were saying Lane. I checked out a guys osage bow the other day. He was so proud to have zero string follow and that it pulled over 60lbs. It was over built and really didn't make me happy to shoot it - shook my eye teeth a little. He accomplished what he set out to do, so that is cool. It seems like building bows can be like trying for the perfect golf swing... if you focus on one characteristic too much, you will screw up on something else and end up with a dawg. I have a bow that is a probably the fastest one I have built, but it hurts to shoot it, I can't shoot it as accurately, and I just don't lilke it. My favorites have an inch or two of set, don't rattle my teeth, and I shoot them better. That is probably due to the fact that I will shoot them more, since they shoot sweet. I am trying for fastest, sweetest shooting bow that I can build, just like everybody else.
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For the first year just to get a bow to shoot was an accomplishment for me.Always with B50 string taking heed to friends warnings about fast flight.Then I met another fella that is I guess you could call him the investigator.He's always testing testing testing everything bows,arrows,string etc.He told me he'd been shooting fast flight on his self bows for ten years or more with no ill effects at all.So I tried it.It enhanced things on my bows.Arrow speed to me is done in little bits.Here and there.Give and take.Each to his own.All I can say is try it see what happens.We all make enough bows to take a risk.Making different designs and trying to make a more efficient bow is my way of not getting bored making the same thing over and over.
As far as design goes it is hard to beat a R/D design for everything a person likes.Bendy handle 62" Osage is one of my very favorites.
Oh this friend of mine gets on this Pirates of Archery site where they test bows.They are the real deal.He said the only person who sent a self bow to them to test was Badger and it performed great.
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I'll say this though perfection is achieved by making the same thing over and over that's for sure.