Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: anasazi on September 23, 2012, 09:57:36 pm
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What would be a good brace hight for a shortie it is 48 or 49 in ntn i am hoping for 60# at 20 in is that even a possibility? I am ok with a draw wt in the 50s but figure if i shoot for 60# i have some room to get things right.
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That sounds good. How wide is it? Jawge
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I'd just brace it high enough to keep the fletchings off the handle.
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It is 2" wide to about mid limb then fades to 1/2" at the tips the wood is tree of heaven
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I'd just brace it high enough to keep the fletchings off the handle.
Exactly!
Tracy
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I always try to brace as low as possible while keeping the feathers clear of the bow. Usually around 5 1/2" to 6 1/2" or so.
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You might be aiming kind of high for the weight on this one if you are making it out of tree of heaven .I haven't worked my staves yet , but the wood is fairly light . Looking forward to seeing the results ,as I have a few in my own pile. My suspicion is it will take alot of set and will be prone to crysal before the back fails. Best of luck,and I'll be watching for future posts.
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Fistmele - thumbs up with the base of your hand lined up with the back of the bow, the thumb just touching the string (i.e. 5-6 inches or just enough to clear your fletching :) )
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Would i have better luck reducing set and avoiding crysiling if i backed it with sinue i am shooting for the 60# but since this will probably be my first bow completely finished ( i have a plum flat bow i still have to bend straight enough that i can tiller it) i expect i will do something to screw it up and would be happy with and as i get closer will probably shoot for 50 or 55#.i dont think i can draw 60#.
Another dumb question what is crysaling?
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Crysaling is the crushing of the belly fibres . It will happen if the design overstrains the properties of the wood's limitations or if you make one area in the bending portion too thin (hinge). If the back of the bow is too strong in tension ,relative to the compression that the belly can withstand, the bow will fail. Usually not dramatically with a big boom, it just sort of craps out in a lazy "I'd rather not be a bow anymore ,despite your efforts to the contrary! " sort of way.Sinew would only make the problem worse ,as it increases tension on the back.My suggestion would be ,practice making a lighter bow from the Tree of Heaven,and make your "heavy" from the Plum. Just a thought.Good luck!
Dave.
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I've noticed that in most of the photographs that exist of NA bows being held or drawn they are all pretty low braced, especially the double curves (gullwings). Sometime ago I went and measured the string height on all my short bows. These were all shot-in and shooting good. Everyone of them came out about 1" of height to 10 inches of bow....[ex] 52" bow was just below 5.25" of brace height (to shoot it's best)
All my arrows are fletched eastern woodland 3 fletch and the feathers are long, so none of my fletch clears any of my short bows. Just my personal experience, sure dont make it right.
rich
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I'm with Halfeye...
IMO
The feathers clearing the bow is a red herring as they won't touch it once you start to draw and are going to go right past the bow when you loose the arrow anyhow!
I haven't made a real shortie yet so I can't really answer :-[, but I generally start low and increase the brace height and/or adust the arrow pass to avoid slapping my wrist and give a good arrow flight.
Del
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I am with you Rich !
I don't normally do shorties but I think you are on to something !
I understand why folks say longer than the feathers ,noise,inconvenience ,messed up feathers, string slap,ECT !
But I like eastern two Fletch with soft feathers so most of those disappear and my feathers just get a little scrunched no problem ! But I do most things wrong according to the pros so don't take any advise from me !!
As for the tree of heaven I just don't know so go for it and let us all know how it fairs !
Have fun !!
Guy
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tree 'o heaven has the same properties as red oak basically, but i think rich has your question answerred, Bub
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Have a couple staves of Tree of Heaven that I've been itching to try out.Your post got me curious so I tillered out a bow that's been roughed out for about 6 months now . Nice and dry. Tillered out on the long string ,heat treated and recurved lightly at the tips .3-4" diameter tree.Only 4-5 growthrings .Shorter stave ,so I decided to make it bend through the handle .It was tillered out to brace height so I grabbed a string to put on it. Tried to brace it using a stringer to be extra safe.It cracked in the most pathetic fashion I've yet to witness.Straight across the limb with only a fraction of an inch of grain that was actually frayed.It was like breaking a piece of sponge toffee. I took some pics and will post when I can. looking at the grain from the end you can see how ridiculously large the pores are . IMHO you can make a bow out of it but probably not a practical one. I think it would have to be very light weight or preposterous dimensions to survive.I'm not sure where the comparison to Red Oak comes from Bubby as it lacked the strength and worked more like a piece of soft maple. The density was more like pine and the wood was kind of soft and stringy when you planed or scraped it.I would be interrested to see if your staves are different, Anasazi. good luck.
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Between 5 1/2 and 6 on most of my bows,short or longer. :)
Pappy
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My longer bows are braced 7-7.5 in string to back of bow which just about clears feathers and a little more. You don't want to brace a shorty that much. 5 in like half eye said is tops. I make arrows with shorter fletch for shorties. Jawge
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When you look at old Indian photos, low brace height on a short bow usually meant low string tension as well.
Plains Indians didn't care if the feathers made contact with the bow, especially in the North, but most fletchings on Indian arrows were shorter than the brace height.
"Proper" brace height is determined by the specific tradition you are following. There are several traditions, so you must decide which one you wish to follow before building your bow.
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Yes, and it also really affects arrow flight. I brace at the lowest height at which good flight is achieved. Jawge
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Thanks for the info every one i guess we will see how it goes and i will let you all know
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tim baker rates tree o heaven as a borderline bow wood s.g. of 50, it's a med density hardwood with simillar physical properties to red oak, here's a link to a bow posted, Bub
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,30212.msg399499.html#msg399499
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The trees around here don't get to be 10" in dia. I don't think. Maybe that might make the difference. I have another stave that I will eventually try. I heated it because it felt as though it would take a ton of set . The one on your link looks as though it took 3-4" if I'm looking at it right. What do you think?Druid 's post looks like a great bow but the wood looks nothing like the stuff I have or the bow in the link. Come on Anasazi, fire one up and let us know what you find.
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i couldn't find the link but somebody posted a molly tree o heaven and it took little set, might have been 1-2 yrs ago, personally i think a flatter back is the ticket with this wood, jmho, Bub
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Ana, all my bows are shorties. Lakota style to be exact. I would recommend 4 1/2. My fletchings are plains style so they are cut low crop, which doesn't affect my shooting at all. Currently, I am shooting my 47 NTN plains style "D" bow and am drawing it 21 inches. So you should be able to draw it 20 inches. I find that if my brace is a little under five inches I can squeeze an inch or so more. Six iches puts a lot of stress on them limbs and in that case may cause stacking early on.
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With such a low brace hight does the string ever hit the back of your hand or wrist when you shoot?
Hey thanks every one for your help and info i do really appreciate it