Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => English Warbow => Topic started by: ionicmuffin on October 03, 2012, 12:37:59 am
-
So, some time ago i had dragged a branch back to my garage, i then proceeded to saw it on all 4 sides with my dads table saw. I know what your thinking at this point. "DONT DO IT!" well, i did. When i was done i left it there for several months, later i scrapped it because back then i was just a kid. i didnt know what i was doing. At about the beginning of summer i had tossed it out into a pile where we keep all of our scrap wood that we discard or mulch. but today i had an inkling that maybe it was still usable. so i went out and found it. then i took it and chased part of one ring, and i must say, Its salvageable! im so glad it is! it has at least 4 inches of reflex "compliments of nature" built in to it. since it is about 78 inches in length i think i might make an ELB for my friend. The stave is of maple. It is rather high crowned so thats why i thought ELB. I think it has had at least 3-4 years to dry out, so definitely well seasoned. I still have to chase the entire thing to one ring. I dont plan on anything heavier than 60 # at 32" because my friend loves to overdraw his current bow(which has now developed a hing and is nearing the end of its life.) He is Extremely tall and has very long arms. at this point he often draws to the shoulder farthest from the bow >.< this means hes at least 32" draw if not close to 33 or 34... and on top of that hes only 14(almost 15, this will be his present.) and hes currently 6' 6" and his arms are as i said earlier, LONG. thats why i think making an ELB that can be overdraw like that would suit him. Whats your guys' thoughts on this project? I can back it to give it more strength if it will be tension weak or something.
-
The maple is Big Leaf Maple. i am more than willing to use rawhide or flax backing for this stave if that will help any
-
Hard maple is tension strong, and makes an excellent backing. If you're looking to make a warbow, that stave will be a challenge.
-
Yeah, i figured that i would have a hard time with it, but i just couldn't see letting it sit there and be useless. I really do think i will back it since ive seen here: http://paleoplanet69529.yuku.com/topic/10100/Choke-Cherry-and-ELB-s#.UGvBAZiHLUt
Im thinking that if i back it with some hemp that ive separated like sinew that it will work out best because it will make it a bit more tension strong.
-
ok. so just recently i found this link. http://paleoplanet69529.yuku.com/topic/44387#.UHGg8ZiHLUt
its a silver maple warbow, and its by toomanyknots ;D so im thinking that if he could make a decent warbow with the stuff, then maybe my ideas still got some power behind it!
-
correction, this isnt a big leaf maple, this is a Norway maple.
-
60 pounds is not what we call a warbow [modern term], it is a longbow, a less powerful version of a warbow.78" weith 75" between nocks is long enough that a 32" draw is not an overdraw. I am not familiar with that kind of wood. In mediaeval and Tudor times, longbows were heat treated but not backed. They were "selfbows' of one piece of wood, sometimes with horn nocks.
-
60 pounds is not what we call a warbow [modern term], it is a longbow, a less powerful version of a warbow.78" weith 75" between nocks is long enough that a 32" draw is not an overdraw. I am not familiar with that kind of wood. In mediaeval and Tudor times, longbows were heat treated but not backed. They were "selfbows' of one piece of wood, sometimes with horn nocks.
I had no idea medieval or even Tudor bows were heat treated. How did they do it? What evidence do you have that it existed? I think I've heard that our Native Americans heat treated some stuff, but never medieval bowyers.
-
Ascham writes that bowyers should use "Heetes conveniente" . Arrows were sometimes also heated according to Lartdarcherie.
-
Can you be more specific? "Heetes conveniente" seems pretty vague.
-
good to know this, i havent gotten around to chasing one ring. i will post pictures when i have it all shaped.
-
no need to chase a ring, take off the bark and there is your ring
-
thats the problem. i had previously severly violated the rings, so i think that i either have to chase one, or add a backing. the later may be my best option considering that the handle section may get really thin if i try to chase a ring.
-
Can you be more specific? "Heetes conveniente" seems pretty vague.
No, but heat used by a bowyer and the effects we know heat has on a bow is evidence for me. I would prefer more. We use what we can get and it's more than we have for ff strings.
-
Well... then in fact, you can't say with certainty that medieval or Tudor bowyers heat treated the bows.
-
Well... then in fact, you can't say with certainty that medieval or Tudor bowyers heat treated the bows.
That's correct. There are few things that we can say with certainty. Just look at the US ellections. But we can intelligently consider what evidence we have. Or ignore it if that suits us.
-
heat treating has been around since man made tools, why would it stop with the English bowyers and arrow smiths of the middle ages?
-
Heat Treating?
It wouldn't stop, but it takes time and if you are a medieval bowyer making them for war you wouldn't have time.
I saw a recent document for 4 dozen Yew bows made and delivered in a month and that was for the US government in 1942 :o that's more than 1 per day.
(source: Billets to Bows by Glen St Charles)
If that is the turnaround in 1940 imagine the workload in the run up to time of Agincourt... I'd suggest there was little time for heat treating.
(That's not to say a bowyer might not do it for some special bow)
Del
-
We're only guessing, because there's no evidence of heat treating bows that I know of. However, I agree with Del. I seriously doubt that it's something medieval bowyers did. The Mary Rose bows show no sign of heat treating, and they were at the apex of technology in terms of bows made for war.
-
60 pounds is not what we call a warbow [modern term], it is a longbow, a less powerful version of a warbow.78" weith 75" between nocks is long enough that a 32" draw is not an overdraw. I am not familiar with that kind of wood. In mediaeval and Tudor times, longbows were heat treated but not backed. They were "selfbows' of one piece of wood, sometimes with horn nocks.
traditional ELB's were usually two bits of yew spliced together at the handle and then used animal glue to hold them together, this was done because most yew staves had to many knots, also incase one broke you could heat steam the joint and replace the broken limb. i have a freind who makes traditional ELB's who does this and there are a few books on the subject but everything else you said is pretty much spot on.
-
60 pounds is not what we call a warbow [modern term], it is a longbow, a less powerful version of a warbow.78" weith 75" between nocks is long enough that a 32" draw is not an overdraw. I am not familiar with that kind of wood. In mediaeval and Tudor times, longbows were heat treated but not backed. They were "selfbows' of one piece of wood, sometimes with horn nocks.
traditional ELB's were usually two bits of yew spliced together at the handle and then used animal glue to hold them together, this was done because most yew staves had to many knots, also incase one broke you could heat steam the joint and replace the broken limb. i have a freind who makes traditional ELB's who does this and there are a few books on the subject but everything else you said is pretty much spot on.
Warbows were generally one bit of wood.
Supplies of suitable timber were imported as an import tax on goods like wine from Italy and Spain. Whilst some bows were spliced it was not the norm.
Victorian longbows which were laminated were far more likely to have ben spliced.
Del
-
If he draws clear to his shoulder I'd guess he's drawing more than 32". I'm 6'4" with arms average to my height and I draw over 29" to the corner of my mouth. Clear to the shoulder I'd probably be over 34". I'd imagine he has longer arms and a longer draw than me.
Kip
-
yeah hes probably 34 to shoulder, i plan on making him a glueup with some hickory and ERC
-
I've had no success with maple. It's my nemesis in bow-making. Other people say good things about it, but just to let you know, for me, it tends to break very suddenly when it starts getting close to finished. Maybe I'm just not working it enough, I don't know.
-
Maple on its own doesn't make a very good narrow ELB type profile, but it makes a terrific backing material with the correct grain.
-
Heat and it's effects on wood have been known for many thousands of years. In this 'modern' age we tend to think of ourselves as superior to those that have gone before us. The quote from Ascham could well be talking about heat treating in a similar way to how we do it now.
There is a saying - there is nothing new under the sun...........