Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: sleek on October 21, 2012, 05:47:30 am
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I am working on a Black Cherry bow at the moment. She will be 61 inches long, stiff handle, D bow, 1.5 out the fades, pyramid design with 3/8 tips, 40lbs@26 inches, heat treated belly with black silk backing. I have never attempted any Cherry before and am really hoping this comes out. If it does, I have another slightly wider stave that may become a mild re-curve pushing 45@28. I may or may not be making this for my Christmas exchange, I wanna keep ya'll guessing :). And just to make it fun, I plan on posting the next 10 bows I build on here ( I hope to have them all started and finished within the next 30 days ( lots of orders )). Pics up soon...
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Starting so short and that narrow at the fades for a pyramid style I doubt that you'll have enough mass for your desired specs, especially being black cherry. Also I don't think heat treating is a good idea since I've heard that it tends to be a tension weak wood. The backing will definitely be necessary.
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I think Ryoon may be onto something.
Maybe ya wanna get the handle bending for some more length.
Black Cherry has a reputation for being hard to work, i.e. explosive.
But those that do get shooters report an awesome cast.
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Then I will tiller by trapping the belly more and more agressivly until I get the draw weight and length I want.
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I don't understand what a "stiff handled Pyramid design D bow" is. Fill me in.
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The handle doesnt bend, the front profile is pyramid, and the bow side profile when strung is D shaped. Going for elliptical tiller.
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I love Black Cherry. Mainly because of the challenges it presents. My take, 61" is short, 1.5" is narrow for this wood with a stiff handle, even at 26" draw. At those dimensions I would rawhide back it. I would not heat treat the belly. The back holding together will be your challenge with this wood, not the belly taking set. I assume you are working a stave. If possible go longer and or wider. Reverse trap or rounded belly.
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Wear some safety glasses ;)
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Take Pictures :)
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I agree with everything that has been said... I much prefer a bendy handle bow when using cherry, but have never been a fan of the wood due to its explosiveness...
Jon
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My first and only attempt at cherry blew up when nearly finished. I have no further interest in using it as bow wood. It makes nice cabinets.
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I have almost decided to boo back it. Any thoughts? I can not make it any wider or longer, its all the length and width I have to work with.
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i think that boo will overpower the belly, i'd try maple or white oak, but that's just me, Bub
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Reckon hickory would work? Its all I have for a possible backing. I can crown the hickory if need be?
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Seeing that You have access to BC staves, can You harvest some BC bark ? Fantastic backing and pretty too.
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i built one with a hickory backer, but i did trap it some, that bow held up, Bub
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Which side was trapped, the belly or back?
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i trapped the back as cherry, likes to crysall, unless the tiller is perfect, mine were pyramids as well, but i think 61" is too short, i'd go at least 66" and 1 3/4" at the fades minimum with a stiff handle bow, Bub
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I tried backing a piece of black cherry with hickory and it fretted all over the place, not saying it cant be done, It just didnt turn out very good for me.
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Is sinew an option?
Ive alway thought that would be an awesome combo.
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Long,wide,n rawhide....anything else like prepping n gluing a wood backer,or sinewing is a waste of time in my opinion...use wood backing and sinew backing for better pieces of wood that match better and give you better results.
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Ok, so assuming I just go with a silk backing, one layer or two? And what would your draw weight/ length be for this bow/ I would really like a 40# to be legal for hunting... Oh, and I am going with rounding the belly in for final tiller and weight reduction...
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One layer of silk will suffice and rounding the belly will only concentrate the compression forces to a smaller amount of the belly wood. The result being an increased chance of chrysals and ultimately failure. Keep the belly flat. Josh
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Thats short and narrow for a pyramid wild cherry. You'll differnly end up with string follow.
10 bows in 30 days. Do you build bow for a liveing because thats a BIG order. You must be SLEEPING BESIDE YOUR BAND SAW AND HAVE A BELT SANDER UNDER YOUR HEAD. Not my idea of building selfbows.
GOOD LUCK
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I sleep 5 hours a day, and work 8, then the rest the time I am making bows. I just broke my bandsaw blade so things are slow right now as i am down to using my knife. Lucky I am really good with it. Thanks, I will need the luck to get this done. I dont do it for a living, but i sure makes living easier. I do want to do it professionally one day, maybe soon...
I will use one layer of silk, and I will not round the belly much then. This bow is almost complete. We will see tomorrow how she holds up with one layer of silk backing.
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Sleek i have made quite a few cherry bows and here is what i know about it. Cherry will chrysal at the drop of a hat. go slow while tillering. if you rush it youll regret it. Next, silk should be plenty adequate in one layer. If you can keep the back together that will be one smoking fast bow. the dimensions are really pushing the edge but if it blows up make sure its on the tiller tree and not in your hand. if it breaks start again. Dont quit because everyone says it cant be done. that being said, i would not go any heavier than 45# with that length and width. one of my absolute favorite bows is a cherry backed with white ash. its 66" long ntn and 1.5" wide but i always felt it was over built. Good luck
(http://i727.photobucket.com/albums/ww279/sulphur7/DSCF2745.jpg)
(http://i727.photobucket.com/albums/ww279/sulphur7/DSCF2740.jpg)
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I really like the workmanship on that one! On mine, I silk backed it last night, and this morning she pulls 35@25. I believe the tiller to be spot on. I want to pull it back to 40 lbs, its just that as I pull it back, I get that feeling from the wood that it doesnt wanna be pulled any farther. You know the feelings, the bow starts telling your arms to stop pulling and it feels like it is really resisting going any further. The feeling that makes you wince as you pull it just a fraction further?
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Sleek, have you had to align the limbs at all?
I'm gonna get to some black cherry staves in a few weeks, but I know they need some manipulation.
I was just wondering how it responded to bending.
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OUCH! It broke, more like, blew the heck up. It hit me in the chest hard enough to bruise me. I had it back at 25.5 inches and BOOM, like a 22 pistol going off, it let loose in a strange manner. Went out in 4 pieces. One break in the back, one large and one small piece on the belly came off, and of course, the tip let go. It broke mid limb, and the belly split all the way to the handle. No chrysels, no set, just carnage. I'm still smarting from that and it was about 10 minutes ago...I need bow making armor. The lower limb broke, I have tiller pics on my cell of the second before it went. Lower limb was a touch weaker than the upper. That I believe was the problem. Cherry, touchy stuff.
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We cross posted. It responds to bending violently.
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sorry about the big boom, but like ya said you thought the wood was saying,STOP ::), time to start another, Bub
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Grab another stave and get to work!
Ive had that happen many times in the last year.
I still havnt found pieces from a dogwood flat bow that blew in march. I know they are in the kitchen somewhere...
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Should have listened to the wood. Oh well I have one more cherry stave. I learned a few thing on this bow. Cherry responds well to heat hardening. It doesn't like heat bending corrections at all, to include bending in reflex. The back broke on a trapped and heat treated belly. It is tension weak, so I will trap more extreem next time and heat treat again to keep the chrysles from forming, as there were none this go around. Next bow will also be wide as the wood allows.
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Doesn't heat treating benefit tension STRONG woods?
I know that it helps to prevent issues on the belly but also adds stress to the back.
In the TBB4 it reports blackcherry as a weak canidate for heat treating...
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Well, I. Guess your right. My thinking was too trap the belly for protectingthe back and heat treat to protect the belly. Reckon I will just trap the belly a touch and see what happens. If it chrysels, then I will heat treat. If nnot, I will leave it alone.
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Heat treating the belly is protecting the belly in a sense, but at the expense of the back as it now has to do more work. If you heat treat the belly you are in essence trapping the back. Not wise on a wood that is already weak in tension to start with. I figure that when you trapped the belly you may have evened it back out some, but you were back to where you started, just with less wood. As Black Hawk said earlier "long wide and rawhide" for Black Cherry. I gotta Love/Hate thing going with the stuff.
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Sorry to hear that. If u were in the UK I could send you some proper cherry. Ours you can almost bend it round on its self.