Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Dictionary on November 10, 2012, 01:07:18 pm
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Nice representation. I like it.
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Nice and slim, graceful bow. 8)
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That bow looks good to me and the tiller isnt bad. I also live in very damp place its often 90-100% moisture for weeks on end in the winter, You just have to keep your bows at the right distance from the wood burner.
If you want some constructive criticism, then if the bow bent very slightly less in the handle you would have avoided a bit of set, but I think a bit of set is inevitable even with the best made bow, its all about sharing out the stress along the limbs and utilising the length you have working fully
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This bow is about 64 inches long. Would overbuilding it, say making it 68-70 inches long pulling at 40 to 45 pounds(my preferred weight) cause less set and make it a snappier shooter?
Less set=better arrow speed yes?
There seems to be many different styles regarding how much bend there should be in the handle. I've seen many acclaimed D bows that show no bend at full draw but they say they can feel it at full draw. If so, then is the handle really handling much of the actual stress of the bow?
This tiller is similar really to the Hadzabe bows but i can't match their circular cross section. Theirs shows most of the bend in the inner limbs it seems. I like this design because it allows more wood to be working meaning less stress on the limbs.
Thank you for the comments. More criticism or help would be great as im still in the learning stages and i'd like to progress.
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I think your tillers ok..its a lil hard to tell. In the first pic you are nocking the arrow to low and I think its giving a false read of the tiller,cus the second photo looks great and much better( full compass cresent shape moon). That's the beauty of a d bow is you can shift your holding hand placement or the nocking point,or both and find that "sweet" spot in tiller and shooting. That ought to do the job.
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Nice bend on that one!
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Nice job! I'm looking forward to trying an all hickory bow. So far I've only used it as a backing wood.
Most of us tilt our bows when we shoot, but for the tiller pics I make sure to hold it straight up. Even a slight angle can make the tiller look wonky.
Looking forward to your next bow.
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For sapling bows, is it important to try to square off the corners as best as possible for a more smooth arrow release?
Reason i ask is, i've made about 6 arrows so far. I've got a red oak board bow that bends in the handle as well and 2 all 6 arrows shoot well with that bow.
But they sometimes shoot wild with the hickory bow. Im wondering if its because i didnt round off the corners and possible the feather wrappings are hitting the handle area?
im clueless really. As i said im sitll learning ::). My next will be better. I guarantee it!
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Nice one! I love the bend on it too. I should try hickory sometime.
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Tiller looks good. Rounding all 4 corners insures longevity. That way it is less likely to pull up a splinter. I think at 64" for a 25" draw the length is good. Making it a little wider would give you more weight. Hickory is very susceptible to humidity.Keep it in as dry an environment as you can. Jawge
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I think it looks quite good! Really nice simple stick! That's the best kind.
Jon
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I think the tiller looks good,for that design of bow.I dont think that is too much follow either.Yes,your humidity,will affect the amount in a wood like Hickory,which is very hydroscopic,but even then,i see much worse in other bows,so id say you did quite well.
Hickory is a great,if not the best wood,in a dry climate like mine,but in high humidity like yours,they can be a bit sluggish without climate control of some kind.Thats why woods like Osage,are so popular in your area.
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I think the tiller looks good,for that design of bow.I dont think that is too much follow either.Yes,your humidity,will affect the amount in a wood like Hickory,which is very hydroscopic,but even then,i see much worse in other bows,so id say you did quite well.
Hickory is a great,if not the best wood,in a dry climate like mine,but in high humidity like yours,they can be a bit sluggish without climate control of some kind.Thats why woods like Osage,are so popular in your area.
Thanks for that info. I've been cutting a good bit of Hop Hornbeam. It seems to be the general concensus that hickory isnt suitable in hugh humidity so i think i'll experiment with other bow woods in my area.
To combat the humidity and to minimize set, i think my next bow will be 68 inches long.
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I agree with Jodocus, that is a nice slim and graceful looking bow. If you did not heat in any reflex and if you started with a straight piece
of hickory then you did a very good job having only ended up with that much set. For me a hot box to keep the hickory in between working sessions up until you put the finish on the bow is key to controlling moisture content and minimizing set, along with good tillering. Your tiller looks good to me and that amount of set looks fine also. Nice bow.
Greg
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Dictionary, you have done well! I think the tiller and length are just fine. Set is almost inevitable with hickory from my experience. Keep at it you're doing great!
Tracy
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Thanks. There is some dissension on how much bend there should be in the handle. I like to be sure my handle is bending >:D.
My next design will be a tad bit longer and i will use a bit less bend in the handle. One of these days i'm going to try for the rounded belly ELB style if i can figure out how to shape the wood properly. I just picked up TTBB vol 4 finally. Looking forward to reading the arrow section. I like bone points. Very simple.
Thank you everyone.
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Tracy. Is that always true? im sure there will be a bit of set at all times, but, cant you heat treat the belly to limit the set to less than an inch?
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Dictionary, i think you built a heck of a nice bow. Getting that small amount of set from a hickory sapling bow shows some skill. I also live in the humid south and have learned that if you keep hickory bows stored inside in the air conditioning, there won't be anything sluggish about them. I built one for a buddy of mine from a hickory sapling last year and learned something rather interesting about it. His bow finished at around 45lbs of draw weight. He stored it in his tiny little office where he keeps the air conditioning blowing cold all the time... The guy likes it cold! He brought the bow to my house the other day to shoot and I was astounded at it's improvement in cast and draw weight. It picked up about 6lbs of draw weight. Hickory is strange that way. In his office, the humidity was substantially lower than it was out in my shed. Being outside for 6 or 8 hours the other day, did little to take away from it's performance. Food for thought. Keep up the good work. :)
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Howard, good to hear from someone else from AL. Im in Birmingham myself.
After hearing that, i dont keep my wood in the garage anymore. Its in the house where the AC is ;).
Thanks
Jalen
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Really like that bow! Arrow looks really good too! Any closeups? ;D
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Really like that bow! Arrow looks really good too! Any closeups? ;D
I'll post some in the arrow section tomorrow hopefully when i can get my hands on a family member's phone :laugh:
Im a serious novice to arrow making so they are nothing special. I am pleased with their flight though. The bone heads were fun to make as well, but im still figuring out how to shape them properly.
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Maybe the bow isn't perfect, but it's close enough for me! If you end up wondering where the Air Force should send you, request Ellsworth AFB here in Rapid City. Bring that bow along and in about a week's time it will simply amaze you on how fast it CAN shoot! South Dakota also immediately gives resident status to you when your military ID shows you are stationed here.
We got plenty of trout in the streams, bass in the lakes, birds in the air, and furry critters on the ground. We'll give that poor bow a serious work out!
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83% humidity today. Anywhere but here JW haha. Id love to see how the performance increases in a drier climate.
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Well, if you really wanna know...you could send it to me! >:D
No, you need to bring it up here and see for yourself. Otherwise you might think I was exaggerating.
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That's a really nice bow. I was just contemplating what I'm going to make for the Xmas exchange while I was flipping through the Eastern Woodland chapter in TTBB vol2, and I'm thinking maybe I should try something like that, maybe out of elm.
I'd like to see some details on that arrow too!
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Jalen, i am a couple hours drive, southwest of you. I hope JW doesn't have you transferred to South Dakota before you get to shoot that bow some after it has been sitting inside for a couple of months. I bet you it picks up at least five pounds of draw weight. I think you have been bit by the bowyering bug in a big way ;). Thanks for posting and I hope to see some more of your work.
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D. That bend through handle looks awesome. I have just finished my second one getting ready to post it but yours looks great, and as for set if the bow shoots good I ve not worried about it. :)
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I also like woodland bows and sapling bows .
Good job.
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Nice looking bow,very well done in my eyes. :)
Pappy
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Great bow, I love the Eastern Woodlands style bows they are my favorite. I know what you mean about humidity summers in Arkansas are very commonly 95+ degrees with 90%+ humidity.
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Very little wrong with that bow and from the unbraced picture, the "set" doesn't look bad at all. Did you heat treat the bows belly?
If you didn't it'll help hickory out A LOT here in the south. I live in S. Florida so I understand humidity all too well. I've made several hickory bows. They perform better in the winter than the summer but they are always serviceable bows that can be depended on. And yes, if I keep them inside they are better off.
I'd agree that the tiller should be a little stiffer in the middle, but hey, it isn't bad. You've got a shooter and that's what counts.
Well done and I hope to see more of what you make. This type of bow is my favorite, also. Good work!
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They are my favorite as well Autologus
Parnell- I havent tried heat treating as of yet to any bows. The heat gun right now is just for arrow shafts. I am planning on it in the future though as you are right, it would help a great deal down here.
Cameroo- i'd like to see someone replicate a bow out of the eastern woodlands section. I try to imagine them making bows with stone tools. I'd imagine they wouldn't cut a tree larger than what would give them 2 staves. Worked while green, then left to dry for a few months. One day maybe when i learn more about this primitive work, i will try to do it as they once did.
Thank you Pappy, cornus, and Knapper.
hrhodes- Im curious myself what it will do ::)
I'll try to get some pictures up of the arrows i've made. But they arent anything special honestly. Im working on some HHB currently.
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Howdy Dictionary,
Very nice, simple bow... Sweet.
Are you from AL? Is that correct?
You mentioned that you are collecting some hop hornbeam? As far as I know, that only grows in the northern most U.S., like northern WI and MI. I hope you are not putting a lot of effort in collecting some wood that you think is HHB.
All the Best,
Canoe
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Howdy Dictionary,
Very nice, simple bow... Sweet.
Are you from AL? Is that correct?
You mentioned that you are collecting some hop hornbeam? As far as I know, that only grows in the northern most U.S., like northern WI and MI. I hope you are not putting a lot of effort in collecting some wood that you think is HHB.
All the Best,
Canoe
Birmingham, AL
Yeah in regards to the wood identification. I have done some searching online and through my terrible field guide and it appears to be HHB. Is there another wood that has similar bark and leaves that grows down here that you can think of? Im terrible at tree identification honestly. It took me forever to figure out what hickory looked like.
Bark looks similar to this, although not quite as dark but more of a brownish color and flaky in a similar way.
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Howdy Dictionary,
Again, my compliments to you on your bow - very nice.
Here is a link, from the Ohio DNR, with a good description of HHB. I hope you find it helpful.
http://www.dnr.state.oh.us/home/trees/hophorn_am/tabid/5377/default.aspx
Note, "American Hophornbeam has leaves that are alternate, elliptical, doubly serrated, with prominent veins and a drawn-out tip."
All the best to you and your bow building,
Canoe
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I am with Parnell on the heat treating of hickory.... a good toasting will really help it along.
We do have HHB here in Alabama. It is sort of scattered in it's range, but I find a fair amount of it around here and I am well south of Dictionary.
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i dont recall seeing the catkins on this wood around here thats in that link Canoe, but the leaves fit the bill. To be honest, a lot of tree's leaves look just like that to me haha. It can be difficult for me to identify these woods around here. I take my sister's car, drive to the nearby woods behind a soccer field and cut my wood there. I then throw them in the car and get outta there as quick as possible. I'll need to take a better look at this tree i'm identifying as HHB. Even if it isnt, im still going to give it a go, as it grows quite a lot around here.
Also going to hold off on the postings of the arrows. I was out shooting today and broke all of my bone heads and lost like 2 arrows. Im down to 4 now. Pretty ridiculous really. Still learning....alot to learn. This bow has quite a bit of finger pinch as well. My fingers began to hurt after a few shots. I kept shooting and have a callus on my ring finger. I need to alter my release i suppose.
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Search "Trees of Alabama and the Southeast" - a website that Auburn University has up. It has some good pics of hophornbeam, and most other common trees in our area. I have been meaning to try HHB myself, but haven't gotten around to it yet. Let me know how it turns out. It might could be mistaken for elm, but if it is sort of scaly bark it is HHB.
Arrows are a whole other ballgame, huh? A fellow asked me to make him a bow the other day and asked me how much I would charge. I told him and then he said, "make me three or four of those arrows too....." I thought about it for a bit and told him I would have to charge him more for the arrows than I would for the bow!
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... then he said, "make me three or four of those arrows too....." I thought about it for a bit and told him I would have to charge him more for the arrows than I would for the bow!
It takes me just as long to make a good set of arrows as it does to make a bow. I just gave up and ordered a dozen from 3Rivers for a bow I'm doing for a Christmas present. Pert near $90 with shipping divided with the rest of the order and I call it a bargain! I hates to make arra's!