Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: RyanY on November 16, 2012, 03:20:29 pm

Title: The Tangent Bow
Post by: RyanY on November 16, 2012, 03:20:29 pm
Here's yet another hickory bow I just finished up. Some might call this a holmegaard style bow or something similar but I didn't go into making this bow with that in mind. Instead, all the lines of the bow, with the exception of the thickness, follow the form of a tangent function. In less mathematical speak, the inner limbs are convex and the taper gradually increases in magnitude from the fades to mid limb. Then the outer limb is the exact opposite in that it is concave and the taper gradually decreases in magnitude towards the tip. The fades and handle also follow suite. Definitely a fun bow to make and I think it turned out quite nice.

The bow itself is 60" long and 45#@26". The handle is 4" long and the fades are 2" each. Limbs start at 2 3/8" wide tapering to 1 3/8" at mid limb and 3/8" at the tips. Mass is 17 oz. The back is trapped to half the width of the bow. Also it was heat treated and retained about 1" of reflex. Again, sorry about some of the bad pics. Hope you guys like it and thanks for looking!

(http://i327.photobucket.com/albums/k455/ryoon4690/IMG_1598.jpg)
(http://i327.photobucket.com/albums/k455/ryoon4690/IMG_1599-1.jpg)
(http://i327.photobucket.com/albums/k455/ryoon4690/IMG_1600.jpg)
(http://i327.photobucket.com/albums/k455/ryoon4690/IMG_1601.jpg)
(http://i327.photobucket.com/albums/k455/ryoon4690/IMG_1602.jpg)
(http://i327.photobucket.com/albums/k455/ryoon4690/IMG_1603.jpg)
(http://i327.photobucket.com/albums/k455/ryoon4690/IMG_1604.jpg)
(http://i327.photobucket.com/albums/k455/ryoon4690/IMG_1606.jpg)
Title: Re: The Tangent Bow
Post by: killir duck on November 16, 2012, 03:27:05 pm
nice looking bow!
Title: Re: The Tangent Bow
Post by: Parnell on November 16, 2012, 03:30:25 pm
 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: The Tangent Bow
Post by: Onebowonder on November 16, 2012, 03:37:53 pm
It's just one pic, but the right limb on the Tiller Tree pic looks like it is stiff from the fade to the midlimb.  In the full draw, it doesn't appear to be as bad, so it may just be the image.

OneBow
Title: Re: The Tangent Bow
Post by: Del the cat on November 16, 2012, 03:38:03 pm
You think it turned out quite nice?
What...?
It's gorgeous :-*
Del
Title: Re: The Tangent Bow
Post by: oscar3b on November 16, 2012, 04:50:14 pm
That bow is really awesome!  I think I might have to try this style of bow myself.  :D I bet that thing is a screamer!
Title: Re: The Tangent Bow
Post by: Ifrit617 on November 16, 2012, 05:02:40 pm
Gorgeous... Absolutely great bow.

Jon
Title: Re: The Tangent Bow
Post by: Badly Bent on November 16, 2012, 05:04:25 pm
Neat design and very nicely executed, thats a sweet looking bow. Hows performance say compared to a standard flatbow or pyramid design? Great job.
Greg
Title: Re: The Tangent Bow
Post by: k-hat on November 16, 2012, 05:26:31 pm
That's a beautiful piece of work right there!  I get the mathy part but i try not to think about math too much when i do bows ;)   Neat application though and great execution ;D
Title: Re: The Tangent Bow
Post by: kevinsmith5 on November 16, 2012, 05:43:21 pm
Very nicely done.
Title: Re: The Tangent Bow
Post by: PatM on November 16, 2012, 05:56:16 pm
Nice "Holmamid"  ;)
Title: Re: The Tangent Bow
Post by: rossfactor on November 16, 2012, 06:03:48 pm
Man, that looks fast.

Gabe
Title: Re: The Tangent Bow
Post by: lesken2011 on November 16, 2012, 06:28:34 pm
Nice job! I like that camo look on the back! :)
Title: Re: The Tangent Bow
Post by: nativenoobowyer86 on November 16, 2012, 07:20:20 pm
thats fantastic! I like it :)
Title: Re: The Tangent Bow
Post by: Bowman on November 16, 2012, 07:33:46 pm
Another beauty. Nice and perfect. I like your rustic style. Simple and clever. .-)
Title: Re: The Tangent Bow
Post by: soy on November 16, 2012, 07:50:34 pm
I have 1 similar in the works I hope it turns out half as nice what you got there ;) great job!
Title: Re: The Tangent Bow
Post by: Zion on November 16, 2012, 07:52:24 pm
real nice bow, i bet it's fast with no set like that, well done
Title: Re: The Tangent Bow
Post by: Starfire on November 16, 2012, 07:56:00 pm
Nice, love the super thin handle
Title: Re: The Tangent Bow
Post by: rps3 on November 16, 2012, 08:01:44 pm
Very nice.
Title: Re: The Tangent Bow
Post by: blackhawk on November 16, 2012, 08:41:20 pm
Sweeet Ryan....now we just need to get some "real" bow wood in your hands to see what you really can do..ehemm..osage. lol :laugh: outta be a good shooter
Title: Re: The Tangent Bow
Post by: briarjumper12 on November 16, 2012, 11:01:02 pm
I really like that design. Might have to steal it LOL
Great job.
Title: Re: The Tangent Bow
Post by: RyanY on November 18, 2012, 01:51:09 pm
Thanks for all the kind words guys! I greatly appreciate it. Its hard for me to comment on the bows speed since I don't have much experience shooting bows other than my own but it does seem quick. The string tension at brace is great but I think that may also be due to the high brace height for such a short bow. Also the look of the back is just the way the cambium looks after sanding. Sometimes I take it all off but decided to leave it on this time. I think it helps show the trapping as well.

If anyone has more questions about the design feel free to ask or PM me. I'd love to share.

OneBow, I was thinking the same thing and even after examining the pic over and over again I'm still not sure if its stiff or even!  :o

Bradley, I can't say whether or not it performs better by observation. But by design it seems as though it should perform better than both. With more bend in the inner limb than both designs and more narrow outer limbs it should store more energy and have less outer limb mass than the other designs if at the same length. If you look at the width at the fades, mid limb, and the tips one would assume that it is a pyramid, but the concave and convex taper change where the work should be done along the limb and, in my opinion, make it a very efficient design.

PatM, That's too clever!

blackhawk, My hope is that I can turn any wood into "real" bow wood with my skillz.  8)
Title: Re: The Tangent Bow
Post by: Jim Davis on November 18, 2012, 04:21:15 pm
I've been a proponent of narrowing the  backs of most wood bows for many years now.  Glad to see others doing it. With  hickory, I think it helps a lot to get rid of tension wood that is just along for the ride.

Beautiful bow too. Great work.

Jim Davis
Title: Re: The Tangent Bow
Post by: adb on November 18, 2012, 05:23:30 pm
Very nice bow. I would call that a basic pyramid bow.
Title: Re: The Tangent Bow
Post by: PatM on November 18, 2012, 05:45:49 pm
Clearly you didn't read the exact layout of the bow.
Title: Re: The Tangent Bow
Post by: H Rhodes on November 18, 2012, 08:43:02 pm
Very nice bow!  It looks like a shooter to me.  You guys are always giving me food for thought and it is amazing how much one can learn from the bows that get posted.  I appreciate you posting this one.  The comment about trapping and getting rid of the "extra tension wood that is just along for the ride" made a bell inside my head go off.  That is something I am going to employ on my next bow.
Title: Re: The Tangent Bow
Post by: Arrowind on November 18, 2012, 09:09:13 pm
AWESOME!
Title: Re: The Tangent Bow
Post by: steve b. on November 18, 2012, 09:22:49 pm
ryoon, that is really cool.  I have a question as I'm doing an almost identical oak bow and I see this all the time here with the pyramids.  Your bow is perfectly straight.  Was your stave that straight or do you just ignore the stave shape and cut the bow straight?  On my bow I still did the pyramid and trapping but I followed the stave shape and so ended up with a wobbly pyramid.  thx.
Title: Re: The Tangent Bow
Post by: RyanY on November 18, 2012, 09:38:40 pm
Thanks guys!  ;D

steve b., My stave was straight for this one and usually if its straight enough I'll still just draw a center line on it instead of following the slight wobble. Following the grain is fine but the important thing is that the tips and handle line up. If not then you'll probably have to do some heat correcting.
Title: Re: The Tangent Bow
Post by: SLIMBOB on November 18, 2012, 10:14:13 pm
Very nice.  Great job on the tiller.
Title: Re: The Tangent Bow
Post by: Pappy on November 19, 2012, 06:52:16 am
Good looking bend on that bow,nice work. :)
   Pappy
Title: Re: The Tangent Bow
Post by: TRACY on November 19, 2012, 07:53:49 am
Tiller looks great! I like the cambium layer left on, I usually do that when working hickory. Well done!

Tracy
Title: Re: The Tangent Bow
Post by: PaulN/KS on November 19, 2012, 11:21:32 pm
Another great looking hickory bow Ryan!
 We need to get you some osage soon, you're gettin' in a "rut" with all that good hickory... ;)
Title: Re: The Tangent Bow
Post by: Carson (CMB) on November 20, 2012, 01:57:34 am
Beautiful.  That pic of the front profile is awesome.  I really like your design approach, and it looks like you carried it out very well.
Title: Re: The Tangent Bow
Post by: Holten101 on November 20, 2012, 03:24:38 am
Very nice bow....obviously awsome workmanship (I dig the trapped back:-).

Now dont get me wrong....but I dont think the tiller matches the pyramid profile. A little more bend out of the fades and a little less mid limb and it would have hit the spot. That being said, I envy the even tiller, and the looks of this bow:-)

Cool bow.

Cheers
Title: Re: The Tangent Bow
Post by: adb on November 20, 2012, 01:34:02 pm
Very nice bow....obviously awsome workmanship (I dig the trapped back:-).

Now dont get me wrong....but I dont think the tiller matches the pyramid profile. A little more bend out of the fades and a little less mid limb and it would have hit the spot. That being said, I envy the even tiller, and the looks of this bow:-)

Cool bow.

Cheers



+1
Title: Re: The Tangent Bow
Post by: RyanY on November 20, 2012, 01:58:50 pm
Thanks guys!

Again, this is not a pyramid bow, and shouldn't be tillered as one, nor should a pyramid bow be tillered in the way that you say, Holten and adb. The tiller on this bow already bends more in the inner limb than a pyramid bow should and less in the outerlimbs. More bend near the fades would ask that wood to do more work than necessary causing detrimental inner limb set and the mid limb wouldn't be doing its fair share of work. Even true pyramid bows should be ever so slightly elliptical in order to keep set from the inner limb/fade area at a minimum.

Here's a pic to help visualize the tiller. I believe the bow is slightly tilled down on the right side but close enough.
(http://i327.photobucket.com/albums/k455/ryoon4690/VENNBOW.jpg)
Title: Re: The Tangent Bow
Post by: Josh B on November 20, 2012, 02:12:46 pm
Well done Ryan!  Your tiller is spot on for that design.  I do like hickory as well.  I live 3 hrs west of you and the climate is just dry enough to really bring out the potential of hickory.  where I live, hickory will do anything Osage will.  Unfortunately, it don't grow here.   Anyway, beautiful work!  Josh
Title: Re: The Tangent Bow
Post by: Marc St Louis on November 20, 2012, 05:40:36 pm
Very nice Ryan.  I like it
Title: Re: The Tangent Bow
Post by: RyanY on November 20, 2012, 06:34:59 pm
Thanks Marc. Always happy to get your seal of approval.

Josh, I appreciate the kind words. Glad to hear you're a hickory enthusiast. Its tough stuff ain't it!
Title: Re: The Tangent Bow
Post by: Holten101 on November 21, 2012, 02:54:31 am
Thanks Ryan
I think the picture with added graphic shows the tiller better, and I see that my initial judgement might have been "jumping the gun".
Looking at the front profile I would still call it a pyramid bow, and I would still (had I done it my self) ask the fade area, were the bow is widest, to do more work. But....my way could very well be wrong;-)....and you have give me food for thoughts;-).


Again...very nice work.

Cheers
Title: Re: The Tangent Bow
Post by: RyanY on November 21, 2012, 12:23:59 pm
Thanks Holten, If none of us disagreed we'd never get anywhere. The reason I don't call this one a pyramid is because the taper is NOT a straight line to the tips. Maybe instead of a pyramid this is more of a "Hershey's Kiss" taper. Although, Pyrmid designs can have reduced mass by Eiffel Towering the tips to some degree. Also the fade area is already doing more work than the rest of the limb. Could it do more without taking considerable set, leading to more narrow mid-outer limbs and lower string angle for more stored energy? Perhaps but I think we'll find out when you make it.  ;D