Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: iowabow on December 23, 2012, 10:28:52 am

Title: Scott chasing a king I mean "Ring" (Video added)
Post by: iowabow on December 23, 2012, 10:28:52 am
Before I post this video I have a question/ contest (no prizes)...how long do you folks think it takes Scott (stringman) to chase a stave down about 6 rings? You will have 24 hours to vote. Your guess should include seconds! The time will be scored from when he starts with draw knife and  stops when he is done with the draw knife. The time after when he is cleaning the stave with scraper will not be counted.
Title: Re: Scott chasing a king I mean "Ring"
Post by: Stringman on December 23, 2012, 11:15:24 am
To be fair, I should add that this was a belly split and was well seasoned. I didn't have to fight the sap wood and the wood was relatively straight with 1 knot.

Good luck! :D
Scott
Title: Re: Scott chasing a king I mean "Ring"
Post by: stringstretcher on December 23, 2012, 11:21:18 am
27 minutes and 31 seconds.  But you didn't say how long the stave was?
Title: Re: Scott chasing a king I mean "Ring"
Post by: hedgeapple on December 23, 2012, 11:25:13 am
11 minutes 20 seconds
Title: Re: Scott chasing a king I mean "Ring"
Post by: Stringman on December 23, 2012, 11:47:47 am
I believe the stick is @70"
Title: Re: Scott chasing a king I mean "Ring"
Post by: hunterbob on December 23, 2012, 11:56:10 am
8 min 14 sec
Title: Re: Scott chasing a king I mean "Ring"
Post by: osage outlaw on December 23, 2012, 12:20:06 pm
5 minutes and 30 seconds
Title: Re: Scott chasing a king I mean "Ring"
Post by: Stalkingfox on December 23, 2012, 12:49:50 pm
1 hour 30 min, 30 sec... Sorry Scott.
Title: Re: Scott chasing a king I mean "Ring"
Post by: Will H on December 23, 2012, 12:54:01 pm
4min 30sec  :o
Title: Re: Scott chasing a king I mean "Ring"
Post by: killir duck on December 23, 2012, 01:22:53 pm
32 min. 79 seconds 8)
Title: Re: Scott chasing a king I mean "Ring"
Post by: Carson (CMB) on December 23, 2012, 01:36:14 pm
2 min, 47 sec
Title: Re: Scott chasing a king I mean "Ring"
Post by: ionicmuffin on December 23, 2012, 01:37:04 pm
3.141592653 seconds
Title: Re: Scott chasing a king I mean "Ring"
Post by: blackhawk on December 23, 2012, 01:38:45 pm
Since your gonna post a video it can't be that long,cus no ones gonna watch 20+ mins of a dude chasing a ring( I know I ain't) ;)

I'm saying 4 mins 55seconds  :o


I'm sure its less than I guessed....especially since it was a belly split...I wished you would've taken a pic of it before he chased it n posted that..it all depends on how well it split out..sometimes belly splits run a good portion of one ring,n it only takes a few minutes to run a ring if your in a race
Title: Re: Scott chasing a king I mean "Ring"
Post by: stringstretcher on December 23, 2012, 01:46:42 pm
blackhawk, you need to watch more of those fast forward videos...lol
Title: Re: Scott chasing a king I mean "Ring"
Post by: fishfinder401 on December 23, 2012, 03:32:21 pm
10 seconds
Title: Re: Scott chasing a king I mean "Ring"
Post by: Roy on December 23, 2012, 03:47:11 pm
7 mins and 13 seconds.
Title: Re: Scott chasing a king I mean "Ring"
Post by: DGF on December 23, 2012, 04:09:38 pm
21 minutes, 6 seconds.
Title: Re: Scott chasing a king I mean "Ring"
Post by: Stringman on December 23, 2012, 04:42:26 pm
I will say it is somewhere between 10 sec (wow!) and 1 hr 30 min (thanks for the vote of confidence!)  :o

Like John said in the beginning, we went down about 6 rings and took all of that off the stave. So, while it was a fairly clean split, I didn't get to cheat on any portion of the back. The whole purpose of this demo was really to show that chasing a ring on Osage does not have to be tedious. What I did (and John recorded) was not amazing to people who work with Osage regularly. But I have heard people complain about how long that process can be, so I wanted to demonstrate the opposite is actually true.

The video that John will show is actually the second stave we worked. Our first attempt was unfortunately not recorded.  ::). So we picked another stick and did it a second time. I believe the first attempt was a bit faster, but not by much.

In any case, this was just me and John having fun, keep the guesses coming!

Scott
Title: Re: Scott chasing a king I mean "Ring"
Post by: seabass on December 23, 2012, 05:09:29 pm
9 min 21 sec
Title: Re: Scott chasing a king I mean "Ring"
Post by: iowabow on December 23, 2012, 05:09:31 pm
The first time was way faster! I thought that the camera was on. So the second video was when Scott was tired and was moving a little slower please keep that in mind. There was about 5 minutes between videos. I also think that people make a bigger deal out of chasing a ring and this video should really help those who are struggling with the process. I will say it takes me about 7 times as long.
So far my favorite guess is 3.14 and 10 sec.
Title: Re: Scott chasing a king I mean "Ring"
Post by: nativenoobowyer86 on December 23, 2012, 05:49:15 pm
4 mins even :)
Title: Re: Scott chasing a king I mean "Ring"
Post by: Cardboard_Duck on December 23, 2012, 06:10:01 pm
Four minutes and 29 seconds.
Title: Re: Scott chasing a king I mean "Ring"
Post by: Stalkingfox on December 23, 2012, 07:57:51 pm
Lol!!!!! ("thanks for the vote of confidence!") Im Sorry Scott I have only had the one chance and time to chase a ring and it took me three hours, I never did it before and only have one stave. Needless to say I didnt want to mess it up. Was a thin ring as well. So I was trying to be realistic as well as faster than I. Tho I couldve said 4 hours.  >:D
Title: Re: Scott chasing a king I mean "Ring"
Post by: RidgeRunner on December 23, 2012, 10:36:39 pm
16 minutes 14 sec.

Question # 1:  Do you ues a Draw Knife?
Question # 2:  If so, Do you use your Draw Knife Upside Down?

David
Title: Re: Scott chasing a king I mean "Ring"
Post by: Gsulfridge on December 23, 2012, 10:52:50 pm
3 minutes, 27 seconds.
Title: Re: Scott chasing a king I mean "Ring"
Post by: Badly Bent on December 23, 2012, 10:59:04 pm
3 mins. 2 sec. per ring x 6 rings = 18 minutes & 12 seconds
less if he's a heavy coffee drinker or a lumberjack.
Title: Re: Scott chasing a king I mean "Ring"
Post by: iowabow on December 23, 2012, 10:59:58 pm
16 minutes 14 sec.

Question # 1:  Do you ues a Draw Knife?
Question # 2:  If so, Do you use your Draw Knife Upside Down?

David
The answer will be on at 10am central
Title: Re: Scott chasing a king I mean "Ring"
Post by: iowabow on December 23, 2012, 11:01:22 pm
3 mins. 2 sec. per ring x 6 rings = 18 minutes & 12 seconds
less if he's a heavy coffee drinker or a lumberjack.
Creative math I love it!!!
Title: Re: Scott chasing a king I mean "Ring"
Post by: iowabow on December 23, 2012, 11:03:03 pm
Btw no one has nailed it yet
Title: Re: Scott chasing a king I mean "Ring"
Post by: vyadha on December 23, 2012, 11:47:05 pm
3 min 9 sec
Title: Re: Scott chasing a king I mean "Ring"
Post by: turtle on December 23, 2012, 11:50:18 pm
2minutes 25 seconds
Title: Re: Scott chasing a king I mean "Ring"
Post by: tgtmatt on December 23, 2012, 11:57:40 pm
4 minutes 44 seconds
Title: Re: Scott chasing a king I mean "Ring"
Post by: WoodMunkey157 on December 24, 2012, 12:55:34 am
14 minutes 25 seconds
Title: Re: Scott chasing a king I mean "Ring"
Post by: iowabow on December 24, 2012, 09:39:14 am
3 more hours! Pappy what is your guess? He has see hundreds if not thousands of rings chased.
Title: Re: Scott chasing a king I mean "Ring"
Post by: Stalkingfox on December 24, 2012, 12:28:13 pm
16 minutes 14 sec.

Question # 1:  Do you ues a Draw Knife?
Question # 2:  If so, Do you use your Draw Knife Upside Down?

David
NICE!! I do use a draw knife tho my hatchet is sharper, I dont have a way to sharpen the draw knife.
Title: Re: Scott chasing a king I mean "Ring"
Post by: iowabow on December 24, 2012, 12:29:46 pm
uploading video please stand by!!!!
Title: Re: Scott chasing a king I mean "Ring"
Post by: iowabow on December 24, 2012, 01:03:13 pm
3.14 was wrong because this vidio shows that charing a ring is easier than Pi

2 mins and 8 seconds is how long it took him.

http://youtu.be/17xI0Q-VzjM (http://youtu.be/17xI0Q-VzjM)
Title: Re: Scott chasing a king I mean "Ring" (Video added)
Post by: Eric Krewson on December 24, 2012, 01:37:44 pm
I see you have a pin knot scraper like the one I showed how to make several years ago in a tutorial.
Title: Re: Scott chasing a king I mean "Ring" (Video added)
Post by: Stalkingfox on December 24, 2012, 01:42:21 pm
LOL!! So Scott... John ...you guys ready for this? I think Ive been using my drawknife backwards bevel up.   :embarassed:
Title: Re: Scott chasing a king I mean "Ring" (Video added)
Post by: Stringman on December 24, 2012, 01:44:01 pm
I actually bought one while at MOJAM and broke it, so I had to make my own. Very handy little gadget!

Here's a pic of the finished stave.
(http://i1311.photobucket.com/albums/s670/cotton7611/17C19C1A-AE4A-4C7E-A441-C16AE500C6D9-2605-0000044E2F6CA611_zps8fb48f95.jpg)

(http://i1311.photobucket.com/albums/s670/cotton7611/72BEB097-6F76-4276-8F3A-6C89EC4E3EC0-2605-0000044F2BE1D5C5_zpsc0d2751a.jpg)
Scott
Title: Re: Scott chasing a king I mean "Ring" (Video added)
Post by: seabass on December 24, 2012, 02:03:02 pm
where can i find the tutorial on the pin knot scraper.i desperately need one.
Title: Re: Scott chasing a king I mean "Ring" (Video added)
Post by: Sidewinder on December 24, 2012, 02:11:09 pm
5 minutes.
Title: Re: Scott chasing a king I mean "Ring" (Video added)
Post by: Sidewinder on December 24, 2012, 02:14:50 pm
Ok, I'm an idoit...lol I did'nt realize it had already been posted as to the amount of time it took. I am glad you guys did this though so that it demystifies chasing a ring. its really no big deal once you get used to the knife your using. Nice post fellas and good to see your ugly mugs.    Danny
Title: Re: Scott chasing a king I mean "Ring" (Video added)
Post by: blackhawk on December 24, 2012, 03:24:45 pm
what ya mean you wont think itll make a bow?  its the king,theres a bow in there easily...ive had a few bows riddled with worse checks than that...just keep that long one in the bow and the ones off to the side will not be in the bow once layed out
Title: Re: Scott chasing a king I mean "Ring" (Video added)
Post by: iowabow on December 24, 2012, 03:42:29 pm
Well bevel up bevel down I have seen it done effectively both ways.

So here is the challenge can anyone chase 6 rings faster than 2m8s?

Anyway I hope you all enjoyed the video,  just a couple guys having fun on the weekend.

Now here is the big question is there a wood that can be finished in 2 minutes on one side for making a bow? If not then osage is king for sure.
Title: Re: Scott chasing a king I mean "Ring" (Video added)
Post by: JW_Halverson on December 24, 2012, 04:04:04 pm
Three things contributed to making this video, in my opinion.

1)  Well aged osage.  Once osage is well aged, the draw knife is naturally going to wanna slip between the growth rings and slide thru that crunchy early wood.  In the video you can really year it.  It's like he's running the draw knife thru rice crispies!

2) Good light source at the right angle.  I noticed Scott arranging the light to take advantage of the angles.  If you can't see the growth ring, you can't chase it.  Play with your light source if you are having trouble seeing what you are looking for.  I like a worklight like Scott's.  I position it up the stave from where I am working and shining down and at an angle toward me.  Makes the grain POP!

3) Practice.  Practice leads to confidence.  There, now you got ANOTHER reason to make yet ANOTHER bow! 


Thanks guys for posting this Mythbusting video!  Chasing rings ain't rocket surgery!
Title: Re: Scott chasing a king I mean "Ring" (Video added)
Post by: gstoneberg on December 24, 2012, 04:35:05 pm
Impressive Scott.  Very nice work. 

To JWs excellent list I would add that


This in no way takes anything away from that display of draw knife skill.  The thing Scott does that is required for quick wood removal is starting out a ways into the stave (not at the end) and pulling the wood off towards him so he can peel multiple rings at one time.  You can remove all the sapwood a long with a few heartwood rings the same way if the wood was seasoned with the sapwood on.

Again, nice work bud.

George
Title: Re: Scott chasing a king I mean "Ring" (Video added)
Post by: nativenoobowyer86 on December 24, 2012, 05:04:03 pm
I think i can peel green, summer elm bark off a little faster.  leaving a finished back.......but just barely
Title: Re: Scott chasing a king I mean "Ring" (Video added)
Post by: Stringman on December 24, 2012, 05:29:06 pm
Good points, JW and George. The reason this video was only five minutes was cause everything was right. If you start adding problems, it behooves a guy to take care and slow down. Knots, character, poor rings, and less than seasoned wood can all make this job a bit more tedious. The good thing is that this is no race. No reason to speed thru a stave and risk mussin the job when you could do better in second gear.

One more tip, when I hit a knot I usually go around it and come back to clean it up later. Many times I will chase a ring and realize I need to go down another ring or two. If I spend a lot of time cleaning up a knot just to go down another ring that's a waste.

@ Blackhawk- I'm gonna start work on that stave and let you help me with it, cause I got questions on that one!

Thanks for the interest!
Scott
Title: Re: Scott chasing a king I mean "Ring" (Video added)
Post by: bobbykelley on December 24, 2012, 05:40:09 pm
Thanks for showing this. Now I know I don't have to treat it like a baby. I was taking it easy.
Title: Re: Scott chasing a king I mean "Ring" (Video added)
Post by: blackhawk on December 24, 2012, 07:07:37 pm
Sweet...bring it on man...even if you can't lay it out keeping the cracks in the stave you can always wrap it where it runs off, n it'll hold...I've had to do that with a few staves too..if its osage it'll make a bow ;)..cus its the king  >:D
Title: Re: Scott chasing a king I mean "Ring" (Video added)
Post by: toomanyknots on December 24, 2012, 11:26:33 pm
It was more like watching an important surgery instead of a ring chasing. I bet you guys would make good surgeons.  lol Thank you for making this video. Ring chasing is not my favorite thing to do admittedly, and I am not the best at it. What gets me is belly splits with thin rings, where it becomes hard for me to tell which ring is overlapping which ring or how far I need to chase down to reach the ring I want. I just need more practice I guess. You guys sure put me to shame.
Title: Re: Scott chasing a king I mean "Ring" (Video added)
Post by: RidgeRunner on December 26, 2012, 09:29:53 am
WOW! That was fast!
I peel rings the same way. Just not that fast. :D

When I went back a reread the first post I noticed that you stated that he used a Draw Knife....
Somehow, I missed that when my ,way to high, time was posted???

The video shows how to use a draw knife UPSIDE DOWN.  It is just MHO that this is the best way to peel Osage rings.
The knife does not have to all that sharp.  It works more like a wedge.  Not like a knife that cuts.

Good video.
David
Title: Re: Scott chasing a king I mean "Ring" (Video added)
Post by: iowabow on December 26, 2012, 09:51:25 am
David the funny thing about this video is he is not in a hurry this his normal pace. We chased three staves before this video I think and the video I shot of the second was faster. He is a big guy and that makes a difference. When I was working a ring the wt of my upper body would not carry the blade as far so I think Scott was like "here I will do it" and it was clear that being larger was a great advantage. I am just happy I can run a ring in 15 minutes it took me weeks when I just scraped each ring because I was afraid to make a mistake.
Title: Re: Scott chasing a king I mean "Ring" (Video added)
Post by: Shaun on December 26, 2012, 10:55:25 am
Was the draw knife sharp? Which way up? Nice going. I tend to get tears in the surface of the ring if I go that fast even in dry wood.
Title: Re: Scott chasing a king I mean "Ring" (Video added)
Post by: iowabow on December 26, 2012, 11:09:55 am
Scott works with the bevel down and flat side up. But as I stated before people do it both ways. I work the stave the same as Scott. I did notice the width of his draw knife was thinner. This is an advantage because he can twist the shavings with less effort than I can do with mine.
Title: Re: Scott chasing a king I mean "Ring" (Video added)
Post by: BowEd on December 26, 2012, 11:40:30 am
Cool.Nice job fellas.Now do you tiller that fast too?.....LOL.For me bevel down that way I don't run the risk of gouging of course.
Title: Re: Scott chasing a king I mean "Ring" (Video added)
Post by: iowabow on December 26, 2012, 11:52:16 am
Well there was talk of doing a speed shaping/floor tillering video but might have to shoot that one at beadmans house lol. Just kidding beadman you like to think things over for a couple of days first on things like 6 mons on backing and such lol. We will have to put you at the end of the bow making process. You do have a pretty fast snapshot
Title: Re: Scott chasing a king I mean "Ring" (Video added)
Post by: BowEd on December 26, 2012, 12:01:34 pm
Well if you can find me out here in the sticks your welcome.I'm a little off the beaten track over here.Just the way I like it.
Title: Re: Scott chasing a king I mean "Ring" (Video added)
Post by: JW_Halverson on December 26, 2012, 11:05:44 pm
I have one draw knife that is designed to use bevel down, like I am used to.  And then I got another one from BevanR that is designed to work bevel up!  I am equally comfortable now with each after ranting for years "bevel down, bevel down"!  Each has it's purposes. 

As for sharp versus dull draw knives, that really comes down to how good of tool control you have.  I feel I have good control, and I am very happy to have my draw knife sharp enough to slice a frog's ear hairs the long way. 
Title: Re: Scott chasing a king I mean "Ring" (Video added)
Post by: Youngboyer2(billyf) on December 27, 2012, 10:33:25 am
That stave also had some very nice clean(albeit the knot), flat rings, not many dips & squiggles that I  could see ... Very nice job though that probably would have taken me 2 hours at my best.
-Billy