Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: osagejack on February 13, 2013, 04:59:25 pm
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how long does it take everyone to go from dry stave to first shot, if you worked on it till it is done,, just wandering
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2-3 hours if I dont have to heat it up and my wife keeps me in coffee.
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Difficult to answer. Depends on the person making it and the equipment they use/have available and the wood being used and the type of bow being made and and and and and.......a lot of variables.
It ain't a race though.
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There's just too many variables to answer your question with any regularity. I've spent anywhere from four to forty hours on a stave bow. That said, I just made a 35# mockup of an Odawa inspired bow last night from a red oak 1x2...took me two hours from layout to shooting it in the back yard.
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If you take out all the breaks, Pearl isn't too far off. Taking breaks is part of bowyer work though. ;)
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as fast as ya want and have the ability to do, but the finish is only half the fun, take your time and enjoy, it's not a chore, it's an adventure
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It all depends on how fancy you want the finished product to be! I've made real ugly ones from stave to shooting in a couple hours or less, but it's usually much longer.
Dale
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I really like what you said bubby. I recently made a bow for my girlfriends dad for his birthday (actually yesterday i gave it to him) and I just HATED the feeling of being rushed and having to get it to what I thought he would like. Making bows for other people just isn't as fun. Although giving it to them seems great. Anyways I totally just got off topic.
Like everyone said, Variables. A board bow can be built in no time with the right tools/knowledge.
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2-3 hours if I dont have to heat it up and my wife keeps me in coffee.
Then I am the slowest bowyer on the planet .... if I tried that all I end up with is chips for the smoker!!!!
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I had my jointer set up to make a 90% tillered board bow in 20 minutes. I had all my measurements fingered out for both tapers. That was pretty slick.
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yeah with a tablesaw I can have one shooting faster than that pearlie >:D
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Lol.......takes me 'bout 4-5 hours to get a board to 90% tiller. No Band Saw, No Table Saw, just hand tools, jig saw and miter saw, router and other basic power tools. I gotta get the board from 3/4" down to bending stage, that is a lot of work by hand, end up with 1/2 garbage can fulll of shavings...Lol :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
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yeah with a tablesaw I can have one shooting faster than that pearlie >:D
GENTLEMAN START YOUR TOOLS! Sounds we got a race bub!
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Depending on the wood and design, about 30 hours with a rasp, scaper, sandpaper, exercising the bow between scrapings, several coats of finish, wrapping the handle, looking at it, talking to it, etc.
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Oh my, I must truly be the slowest guy here - - as it takes me 2 days to sharpen my scrapers, 3 more to decide where to cut, 4 weeks to chase a ring, and a least a month just looking at it trying to decide if it is finished or not.
Definitely not a race, it is a journey with no beginning or end. Have fun and stop comparing yourself to others. If you are having fun, you will make nice bows. If it seems like work to you, go watch TV and come back when you are in a better mind set. My 2 cents.
Russ
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I almost forgot to mention adding a backing material.
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That's the classic thorny question that I'm always getting asked.
In actual hours I'd guess about 50. In elapsed time once I pick up the stave probably an average of 3 weeks.
Mind, maybe you'd be better off asking Mrs Cat :laugh:
I only work on a bow when I want to, I generally work in short bursts and spend ages just thinking about it (which I don't account for) and writing it up on my 'Bowyers Diary' blog.
As an illustration of how hard it is to actually know how long we spend, I went out to the garage 'for a few minutes' to do some final clean up on the back of my latest Yew bow which was just about finished and had already had several coats of Danish Oil (I'd noticed a few fine tool marks).
I went over one limb with scraper and fine wet & dry paper...
just so happens I'd noticed the time I when I went out, turns out I was at it for 45 minutes on one limb of a bow that may would have considered 'finished' already :o.
Maybe I should revise that 50 hours to 75?
Just as well I enjoy it ::)
Del
Did one in an hour a couple of years ago with only an axe, just to prove I could!... I had 10 minutes to spare too ;D
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yeah with a tablesaw I can have one shooting faster than that pearlie >:D
GENTLEMAN START YOUR TOOLS! Sounds we got a race bub!
I defer to the man with the better shop and milder case of add >:D
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I had my jointer set up to make a 90% tillered board bow in 20 minutes. I had all my measurements fingered out for both tapers. That was pretty slick.
:o
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I remember Del telling me something a while ago on a different forum about this. He said
People always ask how long it takes to make a bow... you are finding that it's the tinking time that adds up.
I think with a stave (different of course with board bows) there are so many ways of approaching it that just laying down a centreline takes a while. Then you begin to rough it out and you find things like knots, shakes and issues that require you to shift the lines and guides around a bit. This takes far more time than the building itself in my view.
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Hey Bulldog! Watch Deans Hunting the Osage Bow vid and you will see where I got it from. You just refine it from there. Use poplar boards until you get measurements tweaked, then switch to good boards. And whip 'em out.
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I've been keeping a detailed log of my time put into making this osage flat bow that I'm working on. From stave to full draw it has taken me about 14 hours so far. That includes chasing a ring, multiple heat corrections and only using hand tools. (I had to rough it out with the drawknife because my 'tennis' elbow hates hatchet work :-\) It will be interesting to see how much time I put into the finish work but I'm hoping I can keep the total under 20 hours... We'll see.
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I once made a bow in just over 45 hours, didn't turn out to nice so I learned to slow down and take my time on em' :) :) :)
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30-45 minutes with only a hatchet and a small sapling 8)
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2 hours to 2 years depending on how interested I am in finishing it and how distracted I get with other projects ::)
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On a plain Jane self bow 4-6 man hours most of my self bows probably take 10-14 hours fancy backed one's probably 3 times that easy. Or you could say two weeks to three months
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When a Hopi friend of mine is asked by a collector "how long did that pot take to make?"
he'll say..."thirty years" it took him thirty years to perfect his skills and to be able to accomplish what he does today.
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Richardzane's answer is close to mine. I'm always getting asked how long it takes to make a bow. I explain that it took me 10 years and 40 hours to make the particular bow the person is looking at. Somehow they are always looking at the pricetag when they ask this question. I often price my bow at stave plus $150. IF they have the temerity to question the price of my work, I offer to build them any bow of their choice as long as I get paid at the equivalent hourly rate. If they still complain I tell them I will still come in under the $150 + cost of stave, but they get what they pay for!
If they still kvetch, I point to a 5 gallon bucket of shavings and offer them a do-it-yourself laminated bow kit, glue not included!
Oats ain't cheap, unless you wanna buy them after the horse has used them!
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3 hrs? It take me longer than that to go down the stairs to my workshop. :) Jawge
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I'll have to check that out, PD. I thought you skipped the easy stuff and went straight to the narley and crooked. ;)
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I would have to say, it depends on what kind of bow I am building.... I have worked on some for a an hour or two a day for a week using nothing but hand tools and enjoyed every second of the process. Using band saw and belt sander the other day, I built a hickory board bow in less than two hours that shoots pretty smooth - pyramid style with pin nocks. Not finished or polished up or anything, but a good shooting bow. I did that just goofing around to see just how fast I could make one. With a good board and good power tools, it just doesn't take that long. I am sure that I prefer stave bows and savoring the whole process more. I wouldn't want to build bows on a real production basis - it would take the fun out of it for me.
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When a Hopi friend of mine is asked by a collector "how long did that pot take to make?"
he'll say..."thirty years" it took him thirty years to perfect his skills and to be able to accomplish what he does today.
Exactly ;D.
That's the point, it takes all the experience to know where to lay the bow out in the stave.
I bet a newbie can make a bow quicker than any of us... it'll break, but, yeah it won't take long >:D
Del
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I'll have to check that out, PD. I thought you skipped the easy stuff and went straight to the narley and crooked. ;)
Baby steps buddy!
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I hear you. It looks like I am going to take off the training wheels and try out one of these crepe myrtle staves I have had drying since last spring for my trade bow. Keep your fingers crossed!! ::)
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Good point Jawge, I had forgotten to factor in the geriatrics, and the time it takes to make a pot of coffee.
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Been thinking about this question for a few days. I tend to agree with Del. I enjoy the process, like fishing. Ya I want to catch a fish, but I love picking the right lure, and finding the right water to throw it into, and reading the structure, and makin that perfect cast up against that stick-up that you just know a big fish is layin up next to. Love the catching, but not without the fishing. Same with bow making. I want to fling the first arrow, but I enjoy all that goes before that. Cut a tree in 1995 or 96, chased and floor tillered it in 1998 or so, tinkered with it off and on for years, and finished it in 2009. Built others during that time, just didn't finish this one. So 10-15 years on some. It's not a timed event for me. It's pure enjoyment from start to finish.
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All kidding aside...My best time was with a hop hornbeam stave. It took me 5 hours to full draw. There was no ring chasing and no heating. Board bows are easier than whitewood stave bows unless you want to count the extra time needed to choose a proper board. Osage and BL involve ring chasing and heating so that's more time. I use mostly hand tools except I use a belt sander for some initial shaping and handle shaping. Anyways, I enjoy the process so I put my timer away. Making all wooden bows is supposed to make time march backwards. Jawge
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When I first started out many years ago it took me between 20 to 40 hours to build a bow from scratch to finish. Over the years I quit keeping time and I now finish when I'm finished. Who cares how long it takes. Too many other things in life have deadlines so why should I burdon myself with yet another one. ;D
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About like Pat it use to take 20/30 hours but now I hardly every build one from start to finish,I am always jumping around from one project to another,Not sure on time but probably not as long as it use to. ;) ;D A few years ago at the Classic I gave a guy a Hickory stave that was roughted out but no where near floor tiller,I showed him what to do and told him when it was floor tillered I would put it on the form and reflex and straighten some humps. About 10/12 hours of work he had it bending enough to do that,I put it on the form and while trying to get out a hump in the handle area I broke it,he was so sad,I told him to pick out another stave,he did and then look at me and said you know how long it took for me to get that ready for the form.I said let me see it and went to work wanting to get him back to where he was when I broke the other one,I got it floor tillered and headed for the form,him and his Buddy had a funny look on their face,when I ask them WHAT, he said you know how long that took you,I said no,wasn't timing it. He promply told me 26 minutes. Long but funny story.The more you do the more you learn what ant a bow and can get it off as fast as you need or want to. ;) :)
Pappy
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;D :laugh: :laugh: good one pappy :laugh:
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In 2000 I took a bow build class from Vinson Minor to learn how to build Boo backed bows. I was amazed at how quickly Vinson could remove wood from the right place and in the right amounts. Watching him gave me the confidence to "get 'er done" and since then I don't hesitate when reducing a stave. Time and experience(and watching someone that knows what they are doing) is what it takes to develop that confidence.
If you worry about how long it is taking you are not enjoying the exdperience and your bow will show it.
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About like Pat it use to take 20/30 hours but now I hardly every build one from start to finish,I am always jumping around from one project to another,Not sure on time but probably not as long as it use to. ;) ;D A few years ago at the Classic I gave a guy a Hickory stave that was roughted out but no where near floor tiller,I showed him what to do and told him when it was floor tillered I would put it on the form and reflex and straighten some humps. About 10/12 hours of work he had it bending enough to do that,I put it on the form and while trying to get out a hump in the handle area I broke it,he was so sad,I told him to pick out another stave,he did and then look at me and said you know how long it took for me to get that ready for the form.I said let me see it and went to work wanting to get him back to where he was when I broke the other one,I got it floor tillered and headed for the form,him and his Buddy had a funny look on their face,when I ask them WHAT, he said you know how long that took you,I said no,wasn't timing it. He promply told me 26 minutes. Long but funny story.The more you do the more you learn what ant a bow and can get it off as fast as you need or want to. ;) :)
Pappy
:)
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With a heat corrected, one ring chased stave I can get a bow shooting in a day. Being older and more stoved up, I don't enjoy working wood all day anymore so 3 or 4 days to accomplish the above is normal for me now.
For me getting a bow shooing is only the first step, I still have a couple weeks of tweaking the tiller, shooting the bow in and removing all the tool marks before I am ready to apply the finish, snake skins (if used)and handle leather.
Making a bow is about a three week process for me start to finish.
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It doesn't help my productivity when I have more and more of those days where the process is just so relaxing that I take smaller and smaller bites with the tool so that I can enjoy it all.
Someone said it wasn't a timed event and that says a lot to me. For me it is about working with the wood and the process, not shooting arrows. That certainly doesn't boost productivity!
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30 hours for a BBO or tri lam for me, that's taking a beer break every half hour though:)
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first bow I ever made took me 15 min and was made out of a ceder plank, duct tape, and a piece of bailing wire for a string. I had to draw it with my feet and it hit the foam target at 15 yds and stuck was able to do three shots before it broke in half. I won the argument that my brothers and i were having about whether you could make your own bow or not. Now I spend several weeks/months on a bow but im limited by my job and where i live so i only get about 3 hrs a night to work on projects and im never doing just one thing at a time. Right now im working on about 5 bows 4 knives and a crossbow but i dont have much in the way of deadlines (except my trade bow and one im building for a charity auction)
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Usually takes me about 20 hours to make a bow from start to finish. Unfortunately that 20 hours is usually spread out over 2 months :-[.
gabe
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I wish I had kept time on my first bow that I'm making right now. I'm taking it very slow since I just cut the tree in December. I'm almost done floor tillering and really taking my time. I'll go out and scrape some and and sand a little and go back inside then do it again in a few days. I just bought some fast flight and need to start learning to make a string. I think I can get a low brace on it soon if not already. I think I'll enjoy going out to work on it more when it still daylight longer after work. I bet I've got 30 hours easily already. Like I said I started with a tree and have done everything by hand except cutting the tree down with a chainsaw.
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I've made a EW bow in less than a day and several bows in about a week.
Recently I've been taking my time a lot more with the bows. A lot of the astetecis and tiller perfection are made in that last 1/4 inch of wood.
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At MOJam I get an osage stave every year and make a bow to shoot in the clout shoot. With the excitement of the event I usually pump them out in about 3 hours meaning to the point where I need to start sanding. One year I got one done and another shooting by the last day.
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Maybe it's just me, but I know a few guys who make a couple bows a week or more. Seems they just make them as fast as they can to get them done so they can say I made 3 bows this week.. That's all fine and dandy I guess. But what can ya do with 50 or 60 bows a year? Sure you can donate or give them away, I've done that many a time myself. But when I make a bow, it takes me like it does Eric, 3 to 4 weeks. I want it to be nice, I want no tools marks, I want a great finish and I want a great shooter. However I am mainly into BBO bows, so ya have to consider the prep for glue up, the glue up, the cutting out, the tillering, the shooting in, the final sanding and the final sanding again and then the finish. My finish alone takes 4 days waiting for the tung oil to dry 24 hours between coats.
But I'm a 64 year old fart so I just work at my own pace. I have nowhere to go but down hill and I'm in no big hurry to get there:) I might work on a bow 3 or 4 nights a week after work, or I might only work on it 1 or 2 nights a week. Or maybe not at all for a week. A few years ago it was 5 to 6 nights a week. Now it's when I feel like it. I have nothing to prove by pumping out a lot of bows, I know I can do it.
And it's all fun and it's all in the mind of the Bowyer himself of what and how he wants to go about it.
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Although I'm not as old as ROY (51). I'm like him, 20 years ago I was like most on here and worked a bow straight through 2 to 5 hours I was shooting it. I learned a long time ago to slow down. It was'nt a sudden thing I start doing this mosty because of the many other things to do (hobbies). Which slowed me down I slowly saw the advanges.
I only work on a bow if my heart and mines into it. I like to think a little more go's into my bows than just the work it take to make it. I'll use'lly take a month or 3 or 6. I have taken a year on my personal bows. Now I don't just give up on them. I use'lly have a number of bows at different stages. I like to work on a bow then hang it up on a rack over my work bench and look at it every time I walk in my shop and as 'm working on other bows. I might end up takeing the bow a different direction. You'll see things you use'lly miss hurrying along. Exspecially when it comes to tillering.
I've been building bows like this for as long as I remember. So when I build a bow for someone I tell them I don't put a time limit on it.