Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Marks on February 24, 2013, 11:59:49 pm
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Right now we are 45#@29". The upper limb needs a little work on the upper 1/3.
Give me your opinions. I'll post some more pics tomorrow (http://i1038.photobucket.com/albums/a470/marks1018/IMAG0116_zps4957db45.jpg)
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I forgot about this pic I took earlier this afternoon
(http://i1038.photobucket.com/albums/a470/marks1018/IMAG0113_zpsd15fe41d.jpg)
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(http://i1038.photobucket.com/albums/a470/marks1018/IMAG0118_zps55b8cdc8.jpg)
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It's looking pretty good! A whole lot better then my first! The only problem is all your bend is right at the fades. That is what is causing the excessive string follow in your second picture. I did the same thing with my first and lost a really nice piece of osage. The damage to the wood is already done since you've hit full draw but try to take some wood off mid limb and about 3/4 up on both it will lower the weight some but make your bow safer. Great start!
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What is string follow?
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String follow is how much the tips rest behind the handle of the bow when it is unstrung. It's a result of set usually caused by crushing the wood cells on the belly of the bow with an uneven tiller. In the case of your bow, it is bending too much near the fades and it's crushing the cells causing set and string follow. That will result in low string tension and less cast. Another hint, raise the brace on your bow a bit. Mine is usually about 6" ;). By the way what wood is that?
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Haha sorry I just looked trying to find the unbraced picture and realized I was looking at the strung picture. ::) Ok so the good news is the string follow is not as bad as I was thinking. Looks like about an inch or two, that's not too bad. I would still try to even the tiller a little though. How long is that bow?
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It is osage. The limbs were already shaped that way before i started tillering. I think that is why it looks like too much bend at the fades. Upper limbs still need some work though.
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65"ntn
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Hmmm yeah if it's that long and osage it probably hasn't taken much set at all even with an uneven tiller. i definitely agree the top limb needs a a little more. If it that limb was already like that I would reflex your limbs with heat. That might be a little much for a first bow though. Maybe some of the other guys will come in with some thoughts.
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Yes, work on the top limb. Do not worry about follow. You have done a nice job on that stave. If you look closely at where the limbs enter the handle area you see that the entry point is higher than the other which makes for a difficult tiller. Just fix top limb use a scraper like tool. Jawge
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Thanks for all the feedback Jmilbrandt and George! I'd love to hear from a few other guys too. I do plan on working that top limb a little more on the upper half.
To keep from starting another thread, I have another question for on here. I'm doing all of this as I go and researching how to do it as I go too. I'm to the point of needing to serve my string and get arrows. I know spine is real important. How do I select my arrows? I don't know where to start. Also, I hear on here that you can add a little weight with sinew but will snake skins add weight too? I wanted 45lbs (hunting weight) which is what I'm at now and I still need to work on that upper limb a little.
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For arrows, you should buy your first set before you get into making them so you have something to shoot that matches your bow. You should talk to Carson at Echo Archery (follow my link). He will set you up with a nice set of arrows for a reasonable price that will be matched to your bow.
I think every one of us wanted to make our first bow into a hunting bow. Do yourself a favor and put that out of your head so you can concentrate on making a bow with a good tiller regardless of the weight. You can always make another. i know that when you make your first bow that it seems all your archery dreams are resting on the outcome of that first bow but it's just not a fair thing to expect of yourself and you'll have a lot more fun with it if you don't have that pressure. Finish this bow with a beautiful tiller even if it's 10# by the time you're done. Shoot it and enjoy it while you're working on your hunting bow with all your new found knowledge.
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I'm to the point of needing to serve my string
Judging by the low brace height in your second picture, it looks like you need a shorter string. You might be able to shorten it enough by adding a few twists, but you don't want to twist the string much more than 15 or 20 times throughout its length.
You will find out right away if your brace height (distance from the string to where you grip the bow) is too low. The first indication will be the obscenities that come out of your mouth when you first release the string, followed by the stinging on the inside of your wrist ;)
Different bows require different brace heights, but a good place to start is by using a "fistmele", which is just your clenched fist with the thumb facing up. You can use that for reference by putting it between the string and bow. Another reference that you could use without having to whip out the tape measure for each shooting session (because your string will stretch!) is to see where the fletching on your arrows lay on the bow, or how far from the shelf, and make sure that it's close to the same, every time you use the bow.
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I'm with Weylin about not focusing on the how's poundage. That bein said I think it is possible to keep this bow very close to 45#.
I would start by scraping the outer third of the top limb a bit to increase the bend in that area. I would then research the idea of reflexing both limbs. All that work could be done in a 2 hr session if you had an experienced bowyer with you, so the work should not be too daunting. If you are not interested in building a caul, you should still be able to reproduce some fairly consistent results with primitive methods (vise, fork of a tree, hitch on your truck.) Just heat up the area and start applying pressure or load on the limb (reflex.) Don't stop applying heat until you have a nice arc in the limb (remember, there will be some bounce back.) then either tie it off in that position or stand there and hold it for another 10-15 minutes. Soon as its cool it is pretty well set and you can do the other side.
A caul would make the job easier, but I have made a number of bows without one so don't be afraid to experiment. You are definitely on the right track so just take her slow and enjoy the process. You'll be shooting that bow in no time!
Scott
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Tragidy struck last night. I went over to my uncles house to work on my bow and help him get started on one. It was my uncle, cousin, and granny standing around talking. My cousin tried to pull it back and bless his heart, he is a weakling. My Granny was messing with him and said let me pull that thing back. she pulled about 6-8 inches. lol. They told me to show em how its done and boy did I ever. I got it all the way back and held it a second and BOOM!!! Luckily the string loop held onto the break because it would have hit granny. I'm pretty bummed but I realize it is part of learning. Not real sure what caused it. It broke straight across. It also brok right in that stiff area of the upper limb. I would have expected the break to happen near the limb where it was bending more heavily. My Uncle said he heard 3 distinct pops. I have 1 pic but I want to make some more later and see if yall can help me see where it went wrong. I had tried to do a little steam correction in that area a few weeks ago. No pin knots in that area either. Being this was my first bow my wife actually cried because she knew how much I had worked on it. I just smiled and shook my head. Split happens.
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Well, first things first, realize that you are in some good company. Of the folks I know that make beautiful bows, all have broken their share... many broke their first. And yours wasn't looking bad for a first effort. Sucks to do it in front of others... been their myself.
Second.... the next one will be easier. When you get the stave floor tillered, and you start scraping on the limbs, check the tiller very frequently, even if their seems to be no change... this way you start to pick up the minute changes that can become problems before they do. Also, I'd say to be careful to leave some wood at the fades (just outside of the handle...) and scrape slowly in this area until the bow is just bending. Read some tiller-alongs on this site, to see what others do... but more importantly, just make more bows yourself.
You will get there and make awesome bows. Keep at it.
Gabe
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Sounds like you have the right idea. Ya either ride em till they're broke, or ride em till they buck ya. Either way you get back on!
Scott
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2 things. 1-never draw a stave beyond what I takes to expose a problem. Fix the top limb at very short draws to work in the change. Not even you should have been at full draw until tiller was fixed. 2- do not let anyone draw your bow your bow unless you know his draw length.
Get another stave and have at it. Jawge
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I've got to agree with everything George just said. I think the real take home message from this break is that you don't pull past a problem. If you know there's a stiff spot or a hinge then you should not ever be at full draw. Sounds like you havethe right attitude about it though. Shrug it off learn what you can and start again. Have fun with it. 8)
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2 things. 1-never draw a stave beyond what I takes to expose a problem. Fix the top limb at very short draws to work in the change. Not even you should have been at full draw until tiller was fixed. 2- do not let anyone draw your bow your bow unless you know his draw length.
Get another stave and have at it. Jawge
1. I'm 6'3" 240# and he is 5'8" 14# and doesn't do anything but play video games so I knew he couldn't draw back too far and I also knew Granny wasn't a threat haha.
2. I should have known better. Thanks for the advice. I still find it odd that it broke on the stiff part.
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(http://i1038.photobucket.com/albums/a470/marks1018/IMAG0119_zps8cc8376b.jpg)
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Are the edges on the back sharp or rounded? It kind of looks like they are sharp, if that is the case it could have started at the edge with a splinter then catastrophically failed.
Grady
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Rounded. I think its the lighting.
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I did a similar thing to my first bow a few months ago. I just popped up a splinter on the back. No explosion. lol. I know how you feel though. I had put a ton of work into mine. A lot more work than on my later bows. My problem was that I was worrying about poundage and was afraid to take off too much wood. After that I just made a bow that shoots and had fun with it until I broke it. I'd suggest just making something that has a good tiller and is fun. When you think you're ready go for something with higher poundage. Just my two cents.
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How long was the bow? 29" is not a short draw?
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Bow was 65"ntn 1.5" wide. I'm 6'3" and long armed.
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1. I'm 6'3" 240# and he is 5'8" 14# and doesn't do anything but play video games so I knew he couldn't draw back too far
I used to think like this. Then I learnt that draw length has almost nothing to do with strength. There are 16 year old kids pulling 100# bows out there. Its all technique and fluid movement. Granted if he's tiny then its unlikely his arms would let him pull a dangerous length but don't assume that he wouldn't be able to do it. I've heard quite a few stories about bodybuilders not being able to pull somebody's bow.
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(http://i1038.photobucket.com/albums/a470/marks1018/IMAG0125_zps70ff589f.jpg)
(http://i1038.photobucket.com/albums/a470/marks1018/IMAG0124_zps21f8992d.jpg)
(http://i1038.photobucket.com/albums/a470/marks1018/IMAG0123_zps467008aa.jpg)
(http://i1038.photobucket.com/albums/a470/marks1018/IMAG0120_zps7109d8c0.jpg)
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Tough break but it happens. Looks similar to the break I had couple weeks ago on a hackberry I was almost done with. Keep at it, you can do it. Danny