Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: blackhawk on March 08, 2013, 09:20:09 am
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>:D...anyone care to open this can of worms? ;D
Id like to hear everyone's opinion on whether not heat correcting/shaping/tempering our staves with steam or dry heat affects the longevity and durability of a bow...and is one form of heat better than another when it comes to how long the bow will last?
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This should be interesting...
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;) ;D ;D ;D not today,it's Friday. ;) ;D
Pappy
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I havent built bows nearly long enough to comment on this one for fact. I have lots of years and lots of shots before I know how my heating has affected my bows. My GUESS is adding "normal" heating makes to difference in longevity. Marc wouldnt still be heat treating all his bows if it ruined them or shortened their lives.
Happy Friday Pappy!
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I am no expert at all, but I can tell you one thing for sure. I can heat one and it will break just taking it off the curl..... :o ;D
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I'm with pearly on this one. I have no problems with heat :)
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My best idiotic guess is yes !
Because some stave's never wood become a bow with out heat !
Others can become better bows !
Can the life be shortened by heat sure if i screw up they end up in the fire !
Now what was your ?
oh yes the kind of heat maters because I don't seem to be able to burn my mistakes up with steam ,but I have heard of it being done !
Are we having fun yet !
Guy
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I only know what I was taught by my old friend croortarrow. He was half Iroquois And built and hunted with self bows for over 50 plus years. He said he was taught that a bow won't last as long it heat was used on it.
He never used heat and he was one of 3 of the most knolagable men I know a bows( his form of bows) and the things around him and how everything fitted together. He very seldom strayed from the bend in the handle bow. It worked for him and thats mosty what he made. Not only untill we met did he cut a shelf and try it.
I don't think woods like osage might not be afected as much white woods. I went though a period starting out when I did'nt know how to get around not useing heat. But adventlly stop useing heat on any moveing parts of the limb. I will heat the handle and aline tips with the handle if needed.
As far as if it hunts I say yea if you reallyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy putting a lot of arrows through the bow. I'D SAY YEA IT DOSE AFECT THE LONGEVITY AND DURABILITY OF THE BOW. I can here all the rumming now but I contrube that to close minest. The way you've been taught or the way TBB said is gospal.
I do'nt have any of my old heated bows to look back on. But I've never had any returned. But I can say this. I do have unheated bows 10 ,15 years old thats had 100,000's of arrow shoot through them. That have the same set and string follow as when I made them.
It dose take a little exture thinking and work or some bows that would be simper to heat the bow.
You can do everything you need to do (reflex ,straighting) to the stave while green to where you never have to use heat. There's been 100,00's of bows made useing heat. It's just a step I chose not to have to do.
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I have boiled, steamed and used dry heat with and without oil. I have only my own limited experiences to go by, but heating (dry heat tempering) when done correctly seems to strengthen the wood, not weaken it. I can make heat treated limbs lighter than non-treated limbs in many cases, so heat alone I see as often beneficial. Heat bending may weaken the wood to some degree, I don't know, but not enough to warrant not doing it. Just leave a little more wood on the bend. As far as durability and longevity, don't know but from what I have seen, no difference. Question is, is it like muscle building with steroids, they make you stronger for sure, but eventually your nuts fall off. :)
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I think anytime you manipulate the molecular structure of a material you affect the durability and or longevity of that material. How it affects it depends on how that molecular structure is altered. Tempering wood with heat works very similarly as tempering metal it hardens it and reduces it tensile strength but on the other hand is increases its compression strength.
If that heat is inadvertently transferred to the back of the bow while tempering the belly you will have an adverse affect on the tensile strength of the fibers on the back. Technique plays a huge role in how heat applied to a bow affects its durability and longevity, but I definitely believe heat does in fact affect longevity and the durability of a bow but how it affects it is dependent on the technique in its application.
Grady
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I think it's safe to say that even if it does have the potential to shorten the life it is unlikely to happen very quickly. Most of us seem to have multiple bows and never totally use just one in a volume of shots that will speed up its demise.
Even if it did shorten the lifespan, is that really a big deal? Make another one and retire the first one. Everything eventually wears out.
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I think it's safe to say that even if it does have the potential to shorten the life it is unlikely to happen very quickly. Most of us seem to have multiple bows and never totally use just one in a volume of shots that will speed up its demise.
Even if it did shorten the lifespan, is that really a big deal? Make another one and retire the first one. Everything eventually wears out.
+1
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AUTO I your right anything you change the cell structure. Your damageing the wood. But Pats right just build another.
If you have to use heat.
DRY HEAT SEASINED WOOD.
STEAM ON GREEN WOOD.
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I dont know.......having said that, I havnt seen any indications that it does....not short term, nor long term.
Cheers
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I wouldn't use changing cell structure as a guarantee of damage. Just drying wood changes the cell structure.
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Whats the useful life span of a "normal bow?"
I've shot heat treated bows that were 7-8 years old, not very old, but they shot fine.
Gabe
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I wouldn't use changing cell structure as a guarantee of damage. Just drying wood changes the cell structure.
Yeah I never said that it damaged the wood, just altered its characteristics. As far as causing adverse affects that was more technique dependent rather than saying heating wood damages it or causes it to act adversely.
Grady
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Life has taught me that nothing is for free in this world. Everything is a trade off..... so applying this theory would suggest that heat treating would shorten the life of a bow...but perhaps the life of a bow is so long , that if it loses a few years, its of no real consequence.
If you heat treat a bow too much it will definately reduce its life...so its all a question of how much heat you use......IMHO
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I wouldn't use changing cell structure as a guarantee of damage. Just drying wood changes the cell structure.
Yeah I never said that it damaged the wood, just altered its characteristics. As far as causing adverse affects that was more technique dependent rather than saying heating wood damages it or causes it to act adversely.
Grady
That was in reference to what crooketarrow said, not your post.