Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: ionicmuffin on March 21, 2013, 07:36:07 pm
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what are these trees? not sure what they are.
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The first two pics look like hackberry. No clue on the second tree.
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do the branches normally have bark on hackberry like this?
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what are these trees? not sure what they are.
Pictures of leaves and/or buds would be great! Also location and type of area that the tree was growing could assist in the identification of this tree.
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I cannot stress this enough: identifying a tree solely by a picture of its bark is extremely unreliable at best!
We need more information, more pictures. Even a simple picture of the leaves/buds/twigs will help tremendously - to the experienced eye. More info on the habitat, description of the tree, size reference, locality etc. will also help.
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The first two pictures are hackberry. The last two pictures look like some type of elm.
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Show us the tip of the twig so we can see bud and leaf scars. I wouldn't say the first two are hackberry, never seen hackberry with bark like that.... I think the third and forth are either red or silver maple though.
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ok, well im located in sunny washington ::) :o :( really its rainy hear. Size is around 3-5 inches in diameter and is around 25-35ft tall. The last one is around 10-12 inches in diameter and is around 40-60 ft tall. There are some twigs i could get, no real new buds as of yet, no leaves either.
the first two are of the last 2 trees i showed, and the last two are matched with the first one i showed
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The first two are Hackberry. The second two look like silver maple to me. Josh
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Both trees appear to have alternate leaves (buds), so we can rule out any maple (including silver maple) which always has opposite leaves.
Hackberry and elm both have alternate leaves, and are still on the list. But the list of course barked trees from Washington with alternate leaves is a long one...
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Last pics look like winged elm to me.
Grady
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The first two are Hackberry. The second two look like silver maple to me. Josh
No no no no no ! The second two are definetly not silver maple! I know because it grows every where around here
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The first two are Hackberry. The second two look like silver maple to me. Josh
No no no no no ! The second two are definetly not silver maple! I know because it grows every where around here
Yeah... I believe darksoul already ruled out the maples. Thanks for the clarification though. ::) Josh
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I went through about 40 different species on google and I can't find any that are native to Washington that look like the second tree
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Show us the tip of the twig so we can see bud and leaf scars. I wouldn't say the first two are hackberry, never seen hackberry with bark like that.... I think the third and forth are either red or silver maple though.
I agree that the last two look like red or silver maple.
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The last two look like ash to me.
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That is not ash. Ash has thicker shoots. or buds. I am going to say an elm.. maybe a maple. I think elm.
I have ash everywhere here, cut some recently:)
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If there was some leaves we could see, it would help a lot
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Hackberry for sure on the first 2
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ok let me clarify, the leaves of the bigger second one IS NOT maple, they arnt even remotely maple! The leaves are MUCH closer to elm, they are toothed and have no lobes
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i think tomorrow i might be able to get old leaves but they will be dried up.
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i think tomorrow i might be able to get old leaves but they will be dried up.
Don't you reckon it would have been helpful to put pics of the leaves in the first place? ::) Come on now, work with us for Pete's sake! >:( ;) ;D. Seriously though, it is much easier to determine the species if you have all the available clues. Otherwise, you get dummies like me using the SWAG (scientific wild a$$ guess) method to try and determine the species. Obviously not a reliable method of identification. Josh
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The first two are winged elm. I think people say anything with wierd bark is hackberry..... which doesn't even have wings on the twigs. The last one isn't maple because it has alternate leaves. Not sure what it is, I'm a long way from Washington.
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ill dig up leaves and see what i can do.
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The first two are winged elm. I think people say anything with wierd bark is hackberry..... which doesn't even have wings on the twigs. The last one isn't maple because it has alternate leaves. Not sure what it is, I'm a long way from Washington.
Winged elm.....who'd a thunk it? I've never seen it before so i googled it. Yep, sure enough. That explains the odd diamond pattern furrows. I hadn't seen Hackberry do that before. Once again, learned something new on here. Josh
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so ive had elm on my property and i thought it was junk wood this whole time! go figure it would be me to think something so stupid lol ;D
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The first two are winged elm. I think people say anything with wierd bark is hackberry..... which doesn't even have wings on the twigs. The last one isn't maple because it has alternate leaves. Not sure what it is, I'm a long way from Washington.
Winged elm.....who'd a thunk it? I've never seen it before so i googled it. Yep, sure enough. That explains the odd diamond pattern furrows. I hadn't seen Hackberry do that before. Once again, learned something new on here. Josh
I would have.
Grady
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I think there is a real good chance that they are all Elm.
It wont be much longer and the leaves will be out.
Then we will be able to make a better Guess.
David
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They all look like winged elm to me. The bark on the trunk and limbs of winged elm changes as the tree gets older. I have a winged elm thicket across the road from my house with trees of all different sizes. I'll go out and snap some pics for you to compare them to if you want me to. The leaves look like typical elm leaves except smaller.
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Lol! I reckon you did at that, Grady! Josh
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thanks! yeah there is an absolutely HUGE tree out there with two trunks each one is around 20 inches in diameter and is around 60 ft tall or more even.
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so ive had elm on my property and i thought it was junk wood this whole time! go figure it would be me to think something so stupid lol ;D
stupid is as stupid does >:D ;D
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I dont know how old you are or what kinda shape you're in muffin but I can tell you this: You better put your big boy britches on before you cut and split a 20" diameter winged elm tree. It will make hickory or osage seem like white pine. I cut and split one that was 16" diameter a couple of years ago and it kicked my butt. I would probably do it again though. Keep us posted on how it goes.
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im sure its a beast of a job, might recruit my friend, hes like super strong and in good shape. and still young. im sure that i will be there from sun up till sun down for several days lol
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lol. i screwed up xD the measurements on the "elms" i have are these. 30 inches, 38 inches, 20 inches, 18 inches, 13 inches, and 10 inches.... those are the big ones lol.... and all of them are HUGE.
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If it's winged elm, it sure makes a good bow.... that said, I wouldn't split one again for all the tea in China.
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Cut a 2 inch kerf in the log with a circular saw and buy or make a BUNCH of wedges.... then find someone to swing a sledge :)
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I may not get to the big ones like the 30 incher or even the 28 inch one any time soon, but i will go for the smaller ones because its not growing intertwined in the power lines.
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ok. heres the leaf that i found out there, its the only one that looks like the ones from these trees, and on top of that, i only have holly, maple, and locust. so i think that these are the ONLY possible match for these trees.
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ok, officially this is elm. not sure what type though, american or slippery
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Well, here is one bit of encouragement- White elms have the most pronounced interlocking grain.
Dude, if you decide to cut and split that, I will happily arrange a trade... or if it is in the summer, some $$$$!
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lol, i figured that elm might be of tradable value considering that if i do all the labor intensive part then all they have to do is lay it out and work it down
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OK! its slippery elm! its official! well, that makes me feel good knowing what it is!
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Those big ones will split best at around -10 farenheight.
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so ive heard lol, I think that even if i could get the smaller ones down i would have sufficient staves for a while.
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Find someone with a trackhoe! Probably save you some time. Find a jobsite near you and ask the operator to split em for you. Tell him what they are for and he might help out.
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Ok, so here's what I've got at the moment. This is the mystery tree that i posted earlier and here are the spring leaves as well as maybe a bud or two. I'm going to do some research on what tree it is specifically, but I would like to know what you guys think as well.
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It looks like elm to me. I don't think there is much difference in the subspecies with elm. They all make good bows.
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sweet! so aside from splitting would i want to debark right away? how long is a stave usually going to need to season?
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Last one is winged elm for sure.
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sweet! so aside from splitting would i want to debark right away? how long is a stave usually going to need to season?
It really depends on how soon you need to make a bow out of it. You can split it, debark it, and rough a stave almost to floor tiller and then let it dry indoors for 3 or 4 weeks and it will be dry enough to proceed. Keep a check on it to see that it has quit losing weight and you will know it is dry enough for finish tillering. If I rush one like that, I make sure to seal the back and ends with spray urethane or shellac to avoid drying checks.
I would split it out into staves and leave the bark on it, seal the ends so they won't check, and let them dry till they quit losing weight. If they are indoors where the bugs can't get to them and off the ground, staves can keep like that for a long time.
I think it is winged elm too. One of the best bows I ever made was winged elm. It loves a good toasting.
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Sweet, I may only want to get a few staves ready for summer tillering, the rest i would stick in my garage and leave there until I get back from college next summer. I'm guessing if I take down this tree I will get around 50-100 staves depending on if i can get belly splits out of them or not. If each quarter yields 3 staves then I get 12 staves per 6 feet. This tree is 12 inches in diameter and the other trunk attached to it is 10 inches. each are near 60 feet tall, so im guessing at least 100 staves? idk it could me more or less depending on knots and how it splits and if there is too much damage in one area or another.
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I live in NW Washington, and didn't know elm grew in Washington! Are they native to Washington?
If so I'm going elm hunting, everyone says they make a great bow!
Dale
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I am 100% positive that is American Elm. No doubt.
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dmenzies1950, I have a BUNCH of them and they are all HUGE. I've seen them all over my city and I'm sure they are everywhere else too.
Bryce, Thanks for the input. I came to a similar conclusion although i wasn't sure because the pictures weren't clear. I hope to get these trees felled this month.
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Last one has gotta be silver maple.
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none of the ones i posted here are silver maple because the leaves i posted yesterday came from that tree...
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Oh... I didn't see those leaves. It's elm. :P
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yep figured once you saw them you would know its elm.