Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Ringeck85 on April 04, 2013, 02:01:47 am

Title: Another Wood ID help? (sourwood!)
Post by: Ringeck85 on April 04, 2013, 02:01:47 am
Hello folks!

I cut these (and three other smaller logs) and split them, and debarked them since taking these pictures.  I live in Northern Florida, near a spring so it's quite damp where I look for bow wood.  I cut these in mid-march; the leaves weren't quite on the tree yet, but they looked to be narrow, and 5-7 leaflets shaped like either hickory or ash. The bark and wood looks sorta like Hickory, but I didn't see any nuts on the ground.  The trunk had some moss on it.  The bark is smooth on the branches, and on the trunk sections has fissures/almost a diamond ridge pattern, and peels off relatively easily, which is also why I was thinking hickory or related.

I might be able to find some leaves from a similar tree but I will have to go into the woods a ways and get pictures again.

So, if anyone might be sure of what this is, let me know :)

http://i1359.photobucket.com/albums/q797/VisarFalmaien/DSCN9843_zps8832ccd7.jpg

http://i1359.photobucket.com/albums/q797/VisarFalmaien/DSCN9842_zps9f031243.jpg

http://i1359.photobucket.com/albums/q797/VisarFalmaien/DSCN9837_zps3f943394.jpg

So, it's not oak (no oak-like leaves or acorns), it's not maple or anything smooth-barked.  It's not sweetgum those leaves are already out and that bark is more scaly.  I'm thinking some sorta Hickory (Mockernut, Pignut, and Bitternut grow here I think?) or Ash (Green and White Ash grow here according to the tree id book I have), but what do you think?
Title: Re: Another Wood ID help?
Post by: DarkSoul on April 04, 2013, 07:17:11 am
Judging from the picture of the end grain, the wood does not appear to be ring porous (like hickory and ash would be), but diffuse porous. Am I correct? It can be hard to see from such pictures. Please inspect the end grain yourself; it's very easy to see the difference between ring- and diffuse porous woods and rules out a lot of options.

And leaves would be handy too............
Title: Re: Another Wood ID help?
Post by: Hrothgar on April 04, 2013, 08:28:17 am
Looks like some kind of elm.
Title: Re: Another Wood ID help?
Post by: okie64 on April 04, 2013, 10:00:46 am
I cant see the end grain in the pics well enough to tell a whole lot about it. If you think its hickory or ash it should be easy to tell which one it is by looking at the end grain. Hickory earlywood will be really thin and sometimes almost nonexistent(sometimes it just looks like a little dotted line between latewood rings). Ash earlywood will usually be fairly thick and easy to see. Heres an endgrain pic of a hickory and ash stave to help you out. Hickory is on the left and ash on the right.
(http://i1231.photobucket.com/albums/ee503/Jamey_Burkhart/971DADC5-0D65-4165-8D12-C5478B2B4E51-3030-000008AF8F05723B.jpg)
Title: Re: Another Wood ID help?
Post by: autologus on April 04, 2013, 10:39:42 am
Looks like hickory to me.

Grady
Title: Re: Another Wood ID help?
Post by: lostarrow on April 04, 2013, 11:05:23 am
Always good to know what you are looking at before you cut. These should be good , but some trees make better trees than bows ;). The twigs tell a great deal of the story when trying to I.D. wood in the winter. If you get some of them , the I.D. will come pretty quick!
Title: Re: Another Wood ID help?
Post by: Ringeck85 on April 05, 2013, 04:16:11 am
;) lostarrow
I think I might have had an "this is bow wood!" impulse when I cut it lol.  In hindsight it wasn't the best decision in the world, both for the uncertainty of the wood and for the amount of time it took to carry it back (not to mention the potential for waste, but I'm using every bit of it). I had cut down a tuliptree thinking it was maple of all things; well when life doesn't give you bow wood, it gives you arrow wood but you're not always going to be that lucky.

 Shouldn't be a problem now that the leaves are out in force.

I will get back to you guys on the leaves/twigs if I can find it; another thing I learned from these staves is I'm not going so far into the woods that it takes me two hours to get back carrying five logs.

It looks more like the hickory picture than the ash, so it is definitely not ash.  I've seen some ash trees at a park a few miles east, but alas, I don't have permission on public property.

   I also don't think these are elm, and I would have noticed the leaves on the ground as distinctive.  I have definitely looked for elm (found some beech, which has similar looking leaves, but totally different bark) as I would love to make a warbow out of a good elm stave.

I Think the wood is ring porous but I'm not good at judging that.  I will provide more pictures including leaves/twigs if/when I find the same kind of tree next foray.  Thank you guys :)
Title: Re: Another Wood ID help?
Post by: wapiti1997 on April 05, 2013, 07:41:17 pm
It is tough without the buds and twigs, but it does look like hickory or pecan to me.
Title: Re: Another Wood ID help?
Post by: Thesquirrelslinger on April 05, 2013, 08:15:24 pm
I think I have some elm... It has nice, 1/2 inch rings. Very, very strong and a $()(#&$! to split. a single 6 inch log 65" long took me around 2 hours with a sledgehammer(10 pound) hatchet and dual wedges...
I am going to say... that is probably hickory.. that sure don't look like ash or elm. but I do not know. I have little experiance...
Try taking a small piece of it(thin, like a 12 inch sample, 1/2 inch diameter) and bend it. if you can bend it insanely far, it is probably hickory. Elm tends to have a lighter colored bark, and much different end grain. Ill take pics of the elm I have.
Title: Re: Another Wood ID help?
Post by: Squirrelslayer on April 05, 2013, 08:30:02 pm
Looks like hickory to me   :-*
Title: Re: Another Wood ID help?
Post by: blackhawk on April 05, 2013, 09:22:07 pm
Well I know it ain't osage...so its prob not any good for bows....you can only make great bows from osage,and that's all you need to know  >:D
Title: Re: Another Wood ID help?
Post by: Ringeck85 on April 05, 2013, 10:47:32 pm
Blackhawk what kind of monotreeistic attitude is that?    :P you might as well try to make a bow out of the devil's walkingstick lol

Me, i love polytreeism it's more fun, challenging, and you get more variety, and no excuse for boredom. All trees of divine bow spirit deserve a chance hehe

And hey, if you offer a sample of your osage deity i might consider converting  to the one true 'Sage  ;)

Erm more seriously (like i'm ever serious...)

I'm pretty sure it's some kinda hickory too, it was relatively easy to split (though not as straight as i'd like on some pieces) and while it has some bends and knobs, it will at best have character and at worse give me some excellent lessons for the future whether it makes the string or no. I suspect that the rings aren't as pronounced both because my hand sawing sucks so it makes it harder to see than a clean cut, and the fact that it's in Florida with such puny winters might make the ring growths less pronounced? Seems like the colder you get the more ring porous than diffuse porous hardwood trees you find. Am i onto something or is this old news?
Title: Re: Another Wood ID help?
Post by: blackhawk on April 05, 2013, 11:09:22 pm
Ha...my buddy bill and I once played with a devils walkingstick stave he had and it didn't work out so well  >:D ...I'd like to give that one another go,but its about the same as Willow... need to go real loooooong

And I know it ain't devils walkingstick so it can't be that bad either..lol :laugh:

Why not dry a sample piece out and do a specific gravity test...that'll give you some good info to go off of for starting dimensions?
Title: Re: Another Wood ID help?
Post by: Squirrelslayer on April 06, 2013, 05:19:29 am
Well I know it ain't osage...so its prob not any good for bows....you can only make great bows from osage,and that's all you need to know  >:D

How about Yew :P SS
Title: Re: Another Wood ID help?
Post by: H Rhodes on April 06, 2013, 10:37:44 am
Hickory.
Title: Re: Another Wood ID help?
Post by: Ringeck85 on April 17, 2013, 07:02:30 pm
Ok was (finally!) able to go back into the woods and find a tree like this, with the leaves of course out and green :)

So, it is not hickory, nor ash or any kind of oak, nor maple, nor beech, nor any kind of bow wood I know.  Anybody know what this is?  The tree tends to grow at angles as well, with its branches growing up more straightly to get sunlight in forest cover.  Grows to be maybe 50-60 feet? 

It has alternating simple leaves (I think?), leaves grow to about 5-6" long max, broadly elliptical, the twig starts reddish, then as it grows it grays, and then as that grows into a large branch the bark fissures like seen on the top of the thread.

Here's a branch I had to climb up and cut off to study away from the mosquitos and ticks.
http://i1359.photobucket.com/albums/q797/VisarFalmaien/DSCN0165_zps65925f72.jpg

Here is the twig/branch which starts reddish then grays quickly:
http://i1359.photobucket.com/albums/q797/VisarFalmaien/DSCN0163_zps64fe5822.jpg

Here is the leaf pattern (those are smaller than full sized leaves)
http://i1359.photobucket.com/albums/q797/VisarFalmaien/DSCN0164_zps40b91e94.jpg

Here's a single leaf(let?):
http://i1359.photobucket.com/albums/q797/VisarFalmaien/DSCN0162_zpsb3f3f89f.jpg

So, anybody know what this is, and whether I can make a bow out of it?  I'm going to try regardless cause I don't want it to go to waste, but knowing what I can expect from the wood can help :)  Thanks!!!
Title: Re: Another Wood ID help?
Post by: blackhawk on April 17, 2013, 08:11:52 pm
Sourwood maybe?
Title: Re: Another Wood ID help?
Post by: Hrothgar on April 17, 2013, 09:15:25 pm
The leaves look a little like a tupelo tree, if it were a swamp tupelo the base would probably have been bigger and spread out  :-\
Title: Re: Another Wood ID help?
Post by: Ringeck85 on April 17, 2013, 10:49:46 pm
Blackhawk you got good eyes :) it's sourwood i'm positive!

I had wondered whether it was some sort of tupelo as well, but i don't think that fits as well. Very close though as i think there is tupelo in the woods.

I had glossed over it in my tree book because when i cut it the leaves weren't out yet and the picture of the bark was bad. Leaves and twig, especially that they smell sour, fits it perfectly.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxydendrum

According to this (i know it's wiki but not the worst place to start) the Cherokee used it for arrowshafts :) which i can totally see and i am totally gonna get some shoots when it's dryer in the woods.  Anybody make a bow out of it on here?

Thank you everyone for your help :)
Title: Re: Another Wood ID help? (sourwood!)
Post by: lostarrow on April 18, 2013, 09:37:01 am
There was an article in the mag. a few issues back about sourwood shafts, I believe.I would think if it's big enough, it will make a fine bow! The characteristics that make it a good candidate for arrows will make it good for bows.