Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: rossfactor on April 08, 2013, 12:57:16 am
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I've Made a lot of bows in the last 12 years. I hadn't broken one in a while, although I haven't been pushing the envelope too much either.
I sold a bow to a gentleman a few weeks ago. He just responded that it developed a "crack" just outside the fade. Man, it feels twice as bad when one breaks that you made for someone else. Eating that humble pie tonight :-\ :)
Gabe
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Make it right for him and you'll feel better. We have all eaten our share of humble pie and a bit or crow too. ;)
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:) Thanks Pat,
Yep, I'm meeting him this week to assess the damage. I've already got a back up bow laid out. That's the good thing about "having" to make him another.... I get to make a new bow.
Gabe
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had a guy beg me to sell him a bow, so I did and showed him how to do push/pull to string it, a year later I hear it broke on him so I got ahold of him to hear what happened, said it shot great for about 10 mos then it just broke while stringing it, asked how he strung it , step thru, man i was pissed, told him not to string it like that when he got it in the first place, then told him i'd make him a replacement, ONE TIME, some guys do what they want even when ya tell them not to, Bub
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I had to make a new guy to wooden bows, three BBO bows a couple years ago. Sent the first bow and he said it broke when he strung it. He sent it back and it was broken mid limb at the belly, the boo was still in tact. I thought that's odd. I send him another and he said it broke when he strung it. I said send me pictures, so he does. The belly of the bow was separated from the riser, that never happens either. I sent him the third bow, along with pictures and a video of how to string a BBO. Here the dumb ass was stringing them backwards. I WANTED TO KILL HIM!
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Dang Roy, that really sucks. Ok, I don't feel too bad now.
Yeah, I didn't spend enough time discussing stringing methods. Bow was 60# at 29 and 57# at 28. Overdraw could have been an issue too. But who knows, I might have just missed some flaw in the wood. I shot that bow 50+ times before it went out. And drew it back many more times than that. Tiller was on the money.
Gabe
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guy prolly works in a museum Roy, they like to string bows backwards and break'em
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Then on the third bow, and he looked at the pictures and video I sent. He calls me and says I can't get it strung. This guy was a big dude mind ya, I'm a little guy and I strung it 30 times while working on it. I ask what type of stringer you using, he says the one that has a cup on one end and the other end has the rubber deal that slides half way down the limb. I said NO, don't use that on a BBO, I told him what kind of stringer to buy before. So he emails me later and says, I called the stringer company and they told me to only place one foot at the center of the handle. Here he was placing both feet on the stringer and spacing them at mid limb. I wanted to kill him again. But that bow survived:)
Did I mention he was a compound shooter, wanting to try trad? Since then I decided to quit selling bows. A hobby was turning into a job and it was not fun anymore:)
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Roy,
If you build this guy a gun at any point in your lifetime.....ah, send the video fir....wait a minute maybe not! :laugh:
VMB
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I had to eat a bit of my own pie before...it wasn't fun...
I had build a 40 pound ash board flat bow for one my neighbors, tested it to 30" for safety even though his draw length was 28", had shot it probably 150 times, then the first time he shot it, I was watching...
the glue at the top tip overlay separated and slid down the limb with the string, which wrenched the bottom limb into his guts...I felt sooo bad :-[
Since then I have stopped using elmer's wood glue for gluing tip overlays...
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I built an ocean spray bow for a gentleman. 60#@27" she was a beauty. I shot it 200+ times with my 28" draw. I took him the bow showed him how to string it and maintain the the bow. Also instructed him that NO ONE shoots the bow but him.
2 days later I got an angry phone call,"I demand you make me a new bow this one you made me is broken. Wasn't made right!"
At this point in time I was furious. But I retained my cool and asked a series of questions.
How did you string it?
Did you dry fire the bow?
Did anyone else shoot the bow?
His answers.
-I tried to string it the way you showed me but I couldn't do it. So I did the step through method.
-no I'm not that dumb.
- well no.
Umm... Just my son in law and my grandson.
"Are they taller than you?" I asked.
-just the grandson, man they grow real fast, he was really liking the bow till it broke!
I told him I would replace it but not for free because he voided the warranty when he let someone else shoot the bow. He wasnt happy, but that's how it goes.
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You make a ton of bows you gona eat the humble pie period. Just make sure you don't have to have a side of crow! It makes it way worse trust me!
G'day
Chris
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Av...it happens.
I usually go to great lengths to explain that this isnt glasfiber....that there will allways be an element of unpredictability and a risk of non-visible weaknesses...thats the charm of selfbows.
Getting people to not overdraw is allmost impossible....they wanna show of their new bow so they let others try it. When it eneitably ends up in the hands of and unexperienced archers/compound archer they will try and show that they are "strong enough" to handle "real bows"....so they engage in a muscle contest with the bow and pull it to their ears (I have seen it too many times).
I think you have done all you can with propper tiller and drawlength for the customer.
Btw...I use the step-through method on my own bows....never had a problem with that (I am careful tho).
Cheers
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Oh yeah, that bows for you. The minute you get cocky... they bite yo ass ;D
Del
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So, I have to ask, whats wrong with the step through method of stinging a bow that kills bows?
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Av...it happens.
I usually go to great lengths to explain that this isnt glasfiber....that there will allways be an element of unpredictability and a risk of non-visible weaknesses...thats the charm of selfbows.
Getting people to not overdraw is allmost impossible....they wanna show of their new bow so they let others try it. When it eneitably ends up in the hands of and unexperienced archers/compound archer they will try and show that they are "strong enough" to handle "real bows"....so they engage in a muscle contest with the bow and pull it to their ears (I have seen it too many times).
+1
I think you have done all you can with propper tiller and drawlength for the customer.
Btw...I use the step-through method on my own bows....never had a problem with that (I am careful tho).
Cheers
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Hi all,
I am new to bow building, and know that it come time, a time when i will want to sell a bow or two. But i got to tell ya this thread is scaring the heck out of me. It seems that if you don't have a lifetime warranty and a hefty insurance policy its not worth it. I am all for customer service and keeping a good rep, but come on stringing it backwards getting 2 new bows and then almost blowing up the 3rd!!! i would think there comes a point that you have to say tuff luck bro. what is the standard replacement time for a bow?
and by the way i will tell you why it scares me, because Mr. Murphy rents a room in my basement, and when i think all is well, he delivers that humble pie to me personally. LOL
4giveme
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Step the ought puts alot of stress on one limb.
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Hi all,
I am new to bow building, and know that it come time, a time when i will want to sell a bow or two. But i got to tell ya this thread is scaring the heck out of me. It seems that if you don't have a lifetime warranty and a hefty insurance policy its not worth it. I am all for customer service and keeping a good rep, but come on stringing it backwards getting 2 new bows and then almost blowing up the 3rd!!! i would think there comes a point that you have to say tuff luck bro. what is the standard replacement time for a bow?
and by the way i will tell you why it scares me, because Mr. Murphy rents a room in my basement, and when i think all is well, he delivers that humble pie to me personally. LOL
4giveme
I think it's pretty standard to give a 1 year warranty with a list of conditions such as, you have to use a stringer, no dry fire, only you shoot it, etc. The problem is that it's always dependent on your customer being a decent person. It's just your word against theirs. They can tell you what ever they want about why it broke and it's hard to call them on it. If they insist it wasn't their fault then you suck it up and either give them their money back or build them a new bow and if you think they were screwing you then you just make a point to never deal with them again. I think that's the best you can do in this line of business. You just plan on dealing with that at some point down the road and factor it into your costs.
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It is so tempting to sell bows, seems like everyone wants one when they see them. Generally speaking, just the fact that a person wants to buy a selfbow disqualifies them as a someone who will properly care for it, otherwise they would just make it themselves. The joy I get from building would be negated by selling one. I did it a couple times and wont anymore.
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Been there, sold bows before. I won't make custom bows anymore, have not done it in yrs. "If" I sell a all wood bow there is no warranty...I explain to them that wood, even perfect wood, is not perfect. I have no way of knowing how they treat a bow...OR who they will let draw it...your friend big John trying to prove his manhood could in the long run cost ME MONEY no thanks! (even worse a law suit)......as is, where is, period!
As to a yr warranty, prepare yourself for a pain in the A$$. I had guys that left there bow strung in the closet for months, and complained about string follow......just ONE stupid example!
VMB
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this is one of the reasons all my bows except one have been given away. I give mine away(if they want to donate money to my cause thats cool.) and so far no failures, but ive only given out 2. I have a couple more bow that are still desired, so i will be working on smaller ones after i get my trade bow finished. I will say though, one kid i taught wont stop shooting his bow! hes been shooting it around 100 per day and up to 6 times a week. hes really getting into it, more than i expected.
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Hey, you guys are too much. Thanks for the experiences and putting it in to perspective. :D
Weylin, I agree with the way you summed it up. There's some things that you can/should do e.g. guarantee your workmanship, provide proper instructions, but at the end of the day bows need to be used/treated properly or they can fail, and if someone buys one, they need to understand this.
Anyway, I think this situation will work out. I don't sell many bows. I stopped counting a long time ago so I don't know how many I've made but most have been given away, or are stashed on the property somewhere....
Gabe
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I was thinking after making 40 or so bows to start selling them..... :-\ Then after reading what some guys do to bows :o I will just keep it fun and gift the bow to just friends ;)
Greg
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I have sold a few, but I'm done as well....no fun building under deadlines and on someone elses money.
If I wanna give one away, thats worth more to see the look one that person's face than what I would charge for one.
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Im still an "amateur" ;) ....only "professionals" sell bows ;)
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another thing you should consider doing is to take a piece of wood, turn it into a bow, get suited up, and overdraw it, string another one backwards, leave one strung, ect. Keep these on camera, show them that if they dont follow your instructions these things WILL happen and that they are really responsible if this happens.
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Yup, they say it's hard to be Humble..! But it's better to accept it for what it is, rather than denounce your failures as some people do. It takes more of a man to admit his defeats rather than stand there and blatantly deny any wrong doing... >:D
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Well, if anyone is looking to get some humility, bow making is a good way to get it. ;)
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I agree with all the above. It seemed like a good idea to sell a few bows cos money was short and this is something I can do, maybe not perfectly but reasonably.....but what a headache...no-one but a bowyer understands wooden bows. This must be one of the worst ways to make money.
Yeh, there is always someone who wants to prove how far he can pull a bow....they are the worst
I heard in ancient china the warriors would often kill the bowyer if the bow broke in battle.....so its always been a bad choice of occupation....all respect to those who make it work......Maybe you have to not care too much, once its sold its no longer the bowyers responsibility. just dont sell bows your not sure of.
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I've noticed that if they're breaking bows using the step through method, they're doing it wrong! Most people don't know how to do it properly therefore putting all the stress on one limb. This is usually because they're in a rush and/or not paying attention to what they're doing. Handle goes on the hip people!! That is all.
G
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I'm very selective about who I will make/sell a bow to. They have to be familar with wooden bows and appreciate the care required to properly use and maintain one. I've turned away a lot of requests over the years - it's just not worth the risk. And because of that, I could never make any money at this.
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So, ...was your humble pie at least a nice Plum Pie? :D ;D :) ;)
OneBow
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had a guy beg me to sell him a bow, so I did and showed him how to do push/pull to string it, a year later I hear it broke on him so I got ahold of him to hear what happened, said it shot great for about 10 mos then it just broke while stringing it, asked how he strung it , step thru, man i was pissed, told him not to string it like that when he got it in the first place, then told him i'd make him a replacement, ONE TIME, some guys do what they want even when ya tell them not to, Bub
Yes, this happens. I make every bow I can that will be going to someone else able to be strung with a 2 loop cord stringer. It's easier on the bow, and safer for the person stringing it. Plus, it really sucks to put that much work into something and have someone just break it out of shear ignorance. The only bows I don't make able to be strung with a stringer usually are recurves with diamond nocks. And I tell them 10 times, as well as give them a little booklet I made explaining how and why, to use the stringer always. I think using a booklet or pamphlet is a good idea, as there really is alot of things that can be bad for a selfbow, and the majority of people will have no idea about any of them. And just tell them frankly, "You could easily end up breaking the bow if you string it wrong, and if you haven't dealt with selfbows before, you most likely will break it". Be honest, scare em straight, ;D. I think the main reason someone breaks a bow while stringing it, is because they force too much pressure on one limb, or just because they are over bending the bow when trying to string it, typically with one nock jammed against the ground. Just the physics of stringing a bow like that is asking for bad things.
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Humble pi = 3.14159 26535 89793 23846 26433 83279 50288 41971 69399 37510 58209 74944 59230 78164 06286 20899 86280 34825 34211 70679 82148 08651 32823 06647 09384 46095 50582 23172 53594 08128 48111 74502 84102 70193 85211 05559 64462 29489 54930 38196 44288 10975 66593 34461 28475 64823 37867 83165 27120 19091 45648 56692 34603 48610 45432 66482 13393 60726 02491 41273 72458 70066 06315 58817 48815 20920 96282 92540 91715 36436 78925 90360 01133 05305 48820 46652 13841 46951 94151 16094 33057 27036 57595 91953 09218 61173 81932 61179 31051 18548 07446 23799 62749 56735 18857 52724 89122 79381 83011 94912 98336 73362 44065 66430 86021 39494 63952 24737 19070 21798 60943 70277 05392 17176 29317 67523 84674 81846 76694 05132 00056 81271 45263 56082 77857 71342 75778 96091 73637 17872 14684 40901 22495 34301 46549 58537 10507 92279 68925 89235 42019 95611 21290 21960 86403 44181 59813 62977 47713 09960 51870 72113 49999 99837 29780 49951 05973 17328 16096 31859 50244 59455 34690 83026 42522 30825 33446 85035 26193 11881 71010 00313 78387 52886 58753 32083 81420 61717 76691 47303 59825 34904 28755 46873 11595 62863 88235 37875 93751 95778 18577 80532 17122 68066 13001 92787 66111 95909 21642 01989 38095 25720 10654 85863 27886 59361 53381 82796 82303 01952 03530 18529 68995 77362 25994 13891 24972 17752 83479 13151 55748 57242 45415 06959 50829 53311 68617 27855 88907 50983 81754 63746 49393 19255 06040 09277 01671 13900 98488 24012 85836 16035 63707 66010 47101 81942 95559 61989 46767 83744 94482 55379 77472 68471 04047 53464 62080 46684 25906 94912 93313 67702 89891 52104 75216 20569 66024
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....so they engage in a muscle contest with the bow and pull it to their ears
That is never no problem with me, drawing to my ear is like, what, 20" or so? :)
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I will say though, one kid i taught wont stop shooting his bow! hes been shooting it around 100 per day and up to 6 times a week. hes really getting into it, more than i expected.
That is awesome.
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at the end of the day bows need to be used/treated properly or they can fail, and if someone buys one, they need to understand this.
See, I think anyone who wants to sell bows, should include a little pamphlet or booklet with their bow that says "READ BEFORE USING", and this quote above should be the first sentence... ;D And then after that, move on to the more specific things such as stringing and shooting methods, etc. Here is a copy paste of mine I give people, feel free to use, or make any suggestions:
How To Care For
Your Bow
Dear Archer,
There is nothing as enchanting as shooting a hand crafted traditional wooden bow, but such a bow must be cared for properly, as misusing or mistreating such a bow can and will easily damage or outright destroy a traditional bow. Even worse, improper use can lead to physical injury to yourself or others, so please do you and your bow a favor, and read on about how to properly care for your bow!
How To String Your Bow
It is ALWAYS recommended to string your bow using the bow stringer included, or a similar two loop cord bow stringer. Using a bow stringer will prevent damage to the nocks, and will prevent stressing one limb more than the other, which is very important for the health of your bow. There are many methods to string a bow, such as the push pull method, or the step through method, but these can be tricky, and stressful on the bow if done wrong, as well as dangerous to the individual. Many people new to archery and unfamiliar with a certain stringing method can easily damage a bow using such methods, by putting undue stress on one limb which can throw the tiller off over time, or even outright break the limb. Jamming the nock into the ground can as well damage or break the nock off. Using the push pull method can send the bow tip flying right back at your face if you slip, which is especially dangerous when attempting to string a recurve in such a way. If stringing a recurve that is designed without an extra stringer groove, I recommend using the step through method. Fortunately though, it is very likely that your bow was designed to be strung with a bow stringer.
How to use a bow stringer
1 Slide the bigger loop of the bow string over the top nock and down the limb, so that it sits on the top limb well below the nock.
2 Place the smaller bottom loop of the bow string into the bottom nocks string groove.
3 Place the bow stringers loop over the bow string loop of the bottom nock, so that it rests right behind the bow string loop securely, and if possible, inside the bottom nock as well.
4 Place the other loop of the bow stringer into the stringer groove (second groove) of the top nock.
5 Step on the bow stringer exactly in the middle of the cord with one of your feet.
6 While holding the bow by the handle, pull up on the bow vertically, and slide the top bow string loop into the string groove, making certain to check it is securely positioned before letting down on the bow.
7 To unstring the bow, simply repeat the process. Note: Always try to stress the limbs evenly while using the bow stringer.
General Care For Your Bow
- NEVER draw your bow past its maximum draw length. It has been said that a bow at fulldraw is seven eighths broken. Drawing your bow past its maximum draw length can easily damage it. If you do not know your own draw length, one way to make sure you do not over draw the bow is to use arrow shafts that are the length of the bows maximum draw length.
- ALWAYS unstring the bow when not in use. Leaving your bow strung when not in use can sap performance from the bow and cause excess string follow. Leaving a bow strung overnight even can ruin a new bow.
- NEVER dry fire your bow. Dry fire means shoot the bow without an arrow. Doing so can break the string, and possibly your bow with it. This is very bad for a bow whether or not that happens, either way.
- ALWAYS be mindful of how you store the bow, and be hesitant of extreme temperatures and drops in humidity. Do not leave your bow in a hot car on a hot day, as this could cause the bow to warp. Do not leave your bow next to a radiator, or a central air vent, or anything that will dry the bow out. When wood becomes too dry, it becomes brittle. In the winter time when the air is dry, is the most common time for a wooden bow to fail and break.
- ALWAYS exercise the bows limbs a couple times before taking it fulldraw after stringing the bow. Especially on cold days.
- NEVER let someone else draw your bow. They could easily try to over draw the bow to see how far they can draw it, and break your bow. Never let someone else string your bow for that matter. If they would like to see the bow, hand it to them without the string so they cannot attempt to string and draw the bow.
Your bow was hand crafted with great love and care. With some common sense, proper care, and respect, it should outlast you. Thank you for your purchase, and I hope your new bow serves you well!
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at the end of the day bows need to be used/treated properly or they can fail, and if someone buys one, they need to understand this.
See, I think anyone who wants to sell bows, should include a little pamphlet or booklet with their bow that says "READ BEFORE USING", and this quote above should be the first sentence... ;D And then after that, move on to the more specific things such as stringing and shooting methods, etc. Here is a copy paste of mine I give people, feel free to use, or make any suggestions:
How To Care For
Your Bow
Dear Archer,
There is nothing as enchanting as shooting a hand crafted traditional wooden bow, but such a bow must be cared for properly, as misusing or mistreating such a bow can and will easily damage or outright destroy a traditional bow. Even worse, improper use can lead to physical injury to yourself or others, so please do you and your bow a favor, and read on about how to properly care for your bow!
How To String Your Bow
It is ALWAYS recommended to string your bow using the bow stringer included, or a similar two loop cord bow stringer. Using a bow stringer will prevent damage to the nocks, and will prevent stressing one limb more than the other, which is very important for the health of your bow. There are many methods to string a bow, such as the push pull method, or the step through method, but these can be tricky, and stressful on the bow if done wrong, as well as dangerous to the individual. Many people new to archery and unfamiliar with a certain stringing method can easily damage a bow using such methods, by putting undue stress on one limb which can throw the tiller off over time, or even outright break the limb. Jamming the nock into the ground can as well damage or break the nock off. Using the push pull method can send the bow tip flying right back at your face if you slip, which is especially dangerous when attempting to string a recurve in such a way. If stringing a recurve that is designed without an extra stringer groove, I recommend using the step through method. Fortunately though, it is very likely that your bow was designed to be strung with a bow stringer.
How to use a bow stringer
1 Slide the bigger loop of the bow string over the top nock and down the limb, so that it sits on the top limb well below the nock.
2 Place the smaller bottom loop of the bow string into the bottom nocks string groove.
3 Place the bow stringers loop over the bow string loop of the bottom nock, so that it rests right behind the bow string loop securely, and if possible, inside the bottom nock as well.
4 Place the other loop of the bow stringer into the stringer groove (second groove) of the top nock.
5 Step on the bow stringer exactly in the middle of the cord with one of your feet.
6 While holding the bow by the handle, pull up on the bow vertically, and slide the top bow string loop into the string groove, making certain to check it is securely positioned before letting down on the bow.
7 To unstring the bow, simply repeat the process. Note: Always try to stress the limbs evenly while using the bow stringer.
General Care For Your Bow
- NEVER draw your bow past its maximum draw length. It has been said that a bow at fulldraw is seven eighths broken. Drawing your bow past its maximum draw length can easily damage it. If you do not know your own draw length, one way to make sure you do not over draw the bow is to use arrow shafts that are the length of the bows maximum draw length.
- ALWAYS unstring the bow when not in use. Leaving your bow strung when not in use can sap performance from the bow and cause excess string follow. Leaving a bow strung overnight even can ruin a new bow.
- NEVER dry fire your bow. Dry fire means shoot the bow without an arrow. Doing so can break the string, and possibly your bow with it. This is very bad for a bow whether or not that happens, either way.
- ALWAYS be mindful of how you store the bow, and be hesitant of extreme temperatures and drops in humidity. Do not leave your bow in a hot car on a hot day, as this could cause the bow to warp. Do not leave your bow next to a radiator, or a central air vent, or anything that will dry the bow out. When wood becomes too dry, it becomes brittle. In the winter time when the air is dry, is the most common time for a wooden bow to fail and break.
- ALWAYS exercise the bows limbs a couple times before taking it fulldraw after stringing the bow. Especially on cold days.
- NEVER let someone else draw your bow. They could easily try to over draw the bow to see how far they can draw it, and break your bow. Never let someone else string your bow for that matter. If they would like to see the bow, hand it to them without the string so they cannot attempt to string and draw the bow.
Your bow was hand crafted with great love and care. With some common sense, proper care, and respect, it should outlast you. Thank you for your purchase, and I hope your new bow serves you well!
I do have a card similar to this... Just alot shorter. Mind if he all snag this?
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Sold a lot of bows, replaced more than a few, no questions asked but that was back when I lived to make bows and really looked forward to making another one.
Liability concerns, carpel tunnel problems, dust allergy's and breakage made me rethink the money aspect of selling bows. I prefer to make an occasional bow an give it away to a special person who has done a lot for traditional archery or donate one to be auctioned to raise money for a worthy charity. I will occasionally make one for an old customer who has been good to me.
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Humble pie? Oh yes. I invented the recipe. I don't sell bows. So i can't relate any stories of customer breaks but I've had enough of my own over the years. Jawge
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I do have a card similar to this... Just alot shorter. Mind if he all snag this?
Not at all, please do, ;D.
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Never sold a bow and never will. self bows are bows you should build for your self. people who have shot compound contraptions and fiberglass bows there whole life will just not treat a selfbow like it should be treated.
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Jawge you crack me up.
Good discussion y'all, I like that 'problems' often turn into the best bowyering experiences. Time to use my favorite Wendell Berry quote:
There are, it seems, two muses: the Muse of Inspiration, who gives us inarticulate visions and desires, and the Muse of Realization, who returns again and again to say "It is yet more difficult than you thought." This is the muse of form. It may be then that form serves us best when it works as an obstruction, to baffle us and deflect our intended course. It may be that when we no longer know what to do, we have come to our real work and when we no longer know which way to go, we have begun our real journey. The mind that is not baffled is not employed. The impeded stream is the one that sings.
I love me some Wendell Berry,
Gabe
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I don't see anything wrong with selling a bow (in an of itself). Selling a bow can still ignite the spark of bowyering, or bow hunting in the recipient.
Maybe it becomes wrong if you start making them like you're going to sell them and not like labor of love that you would make for a dear friend or a family member. But, if I stop doing that, than I shouldn't be making bows at all.
Gabe
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I don't see anything wrong with selling a bow (in an of itself). Selling a bow can still ignite the spark of bowyering, or bow hunting in the recipient.
Maybe it becomes wrong if you start making them like you're going to sell them and not like labor of love that you would make for a dear friend or a family member. But, if I stop doing that, than I shouldn't be making bows at all.
Gabe
Nothing wrong with selling them at all I just wouldn't feel comfortable selling them my self because I've made things for other people before ( not bows ) and once I finished i had a really hard time giving it up because i want to keep it for myself after i devoted my time and hard work into it lol
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I don't see anything wrong with selling a bow (in an of itself). Selling a bow can still ignite the spark of bowyering, or bow hunting in the recipient.
Maybe it becomes wrong if you start making them like you're going to sell them and not like labor of love that you would make for a dear friend or a family member. But, if I stop doing that, than I shouldn't be making bows at all.
Gabe
I know the feeling. SS
Nothing wrong with selling them at all I just wouldn't feel comfortable selling them my self because I've made things for other people before ( not bows ) and once I finished i had a really hard time giving it up because i want to keep it for myself after i devoted my time and hard work into it lol