Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: JW_Halverson on April 11, 2013, 11:02:00 pm
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So I was goofing around in the local Lowes today when I found some really nice fence rails that were normally $9 on sale for $0.65 each. I needed some cedar for making striker pegs for slate turkey calls and thought a rail would last me for a few thousand strikers. So I picked one out. It's well over 6 ft long and has a half inch of sapwood over some really fine heartwood. It's also rail straight and just over an inch and a half wide....I picked the straightest one from the lot.
So I got to thinking about reducing the sapwood to about an eighth of an inch and trying to make a lightweight bow from it. Kinda in the ELB profile, but rectangular in cross section.
Anyone ever futz around with this stuff?
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JW, you sound like a new guy. Everybody knows western cedar aint good for nuthin.
Ok, seriously, the only western cedar I have ever seen was a creamish color, no red. I would be interested in seeing a pic? I am guilty of buying a cedar board from lowes as well, 10 ft long straight grain, no knots... but found it to be so soft, I will use it for another project. What do you call lightweight by the way?
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i would slap a rawhide backing or hickory on it before i would even start using it for bowwood. and it just seems like it would be too brittle to actually withstand the forces it would need to take, 10-20 maybe 30 lb bows could be made hypothetically speaking, but i wouldnt really care to do so. if you think you could get something out of it, you should go for it.
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Something around 30-35 lbs draw weight. Something ladylike and pretty.
I have some cream colored silk that would match the color of the sapwood, so backing is certainly in the cards, too.
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Hmmmmm.... JW, you wanna make a bow lady like and pretty... 30-35 lb ish. Dont use that, use something proper. I have a bit of black cherry I can send ya ifn you pay shipping...
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Nah, I kinda want that sapwood/heartwood thingy going on. The intended recipient is of English extraction and is into the whole SCA thingy.
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Post pics bud, I wanna see this one.
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Jw, since I know ya made just a couple of bows ::) and seein as how that wood was invading yer brain with bow thoughts.....my money is on you. Ya know I would probably try that, but hell I'm crazy, dont ya know? I will bet you CAN make a bow from it. 8)
rich
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Of course a bow can be made of it. For that matter, I think I will make one from a green ponderosa sapling this summer. :o
That being said, I'm hoping someone chimes in with experience with this wood so that I can dial back my expectations or narrow down the options for design from the limitations of the wood. I'm so tight, I hate wasting a 65 cent fence rail that I'm still gonna get a hundred turkey call striker pegs out of anyway!
Yeah, I'm tight...scrooge-like, even. Heck, I refuse to fart unless I'm alone because I don't wanna share!
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I've been wondering if trapping the back of a western red cedar bow and backing it might produce results.
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Good question, UNT. Or would reverse trapping help because the wood is fairly brittle? A wider back and a narrower belly?
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Intresting this topic came up. I am thinking a 45 lb eastern red cedar backed with hickory. I have a cople of near stove pipe straight staves that I could take the back off of and glue it to some ERC for the handle/belly.
Go 4 it and let us all know how it works.
Greg
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Heck, I refuse to fart unless I'm alone because I don't wanna share!
I am definitely going to use that one when the time is right :)
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I made a bow from WRC. Years ago. It was 52" long, 2 inches wide, rawhide backed, bend through the handle. More like bind only in the handle. ::) Anyway, that puppy held together for a good 300 shots, and it shot like a sunofagun. But than it blew to smithereens.
So. What I'm saying is, it can probably be done at the weight you are interested in. I think WRC and sinew would be a good match. Look for very tight growth rings.
Gabe
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Back it with some Dog Bone rawhide, that stuff is thick enough to hold it together.
Grady
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Back it with some Dog Bone rawhide, that stuff is thick enough to hold it together.
Grady
I have antelope rawhide, too. It's about as thin as the paper you print business cards on. You can't break it. In fact a moron in my shop told me once it was worthless and I should be using buffalo rawhide. I handed him a quarter inch wide strip about a foot long and told him to break it. He wrapped it around his hands and gave it a pop. Both pinkies were nearly severed. One was cut to the bone and the other had the rawhide lined up with the first joint and the rawhide was stuck inside the joint. Had to drive the idiot to the emergency room.
Seems there are three types of folks. There are the rare few that can learn by reading. A few others learn from what they are told. The third and largest group just has to pee on the electric fence for themselves.
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Back it with some Dog Bone rawhide, that stuff is thick enough to hold it together.
Grady
Seems there are three types of folks. There are the rare few that can learn by reading. A few others learn from what they are told. The third and largest group just has to pee on the electric fence for themselves.
By far one of my favorite quotes. ;D
Jon
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JW, my plan included backing the bow with something that is strong in tension--probably flax, because it's supposed to be even lighter than wood. Then, you would hopefully get a serviceable amount of compression in the belly (because of the trapping), and you might also get the benefit of the light weight and extremely tension-strong flax.
If the combination happened to work, I would think that you might end up with a really light and fast bow because of all the mass reduction. The flax would also probably keep the bow from smacking you in the forehead or gouging out your eyeballs when it blew up.
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Back it with some Dog Bone rawhide, that stuff is thick enough to hold it together.
Grady
Seems there are three types of folks. There are the rare few that can learn by reading. A few others learn from what they are told. The third and largest group just has to pee on the electric fence for themselves.
By far one of my favorite quotes. ;D
Jon
Ifrit, you are known to be a veteran fence whizzer!
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JW, if you make this work, you are going to make my cut up a perfectly good board for rub rails on my boat and make it into a bow, or two.
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Sleek, that's the thing about Western Red Cedar - a cedar board's definitely not going to work. Think small diameter trunk or branch with a thin layer of sapwood and more heartwood - with tight ring growth like a yew or juniper. If you have access to the old growth trees like we have in the Pac NW, you'll find lots of lower branches that are 2"-2 1/2" dia. that are 60 - 80 years old (growth rings). Very dense for cedar. I have a couple waiting in the wings for me to get busy on and I'm very confident they will perform as good as any similar juniper or incense cedar (with a couple layers of sinew of course). Common wisdom says WRC won't make a bow but my moneys also on JW from the rail he described. Like Lofflerchuck says with his sinewed incense cedar California style bows - oval (lemon shaped) cross section and good layers of sinew. I have to think the natives would have used it also and even though there doesn't SEEM to be any museum specimens of it, IMHO it would be very hard to differentiate an old aged WRC bow from an old aged juniper bow (especially by museum curators who insist on bracing bows backwards - and we all know there's plenty of them) The color and look and sapwood to heartwood ratio is very similar.
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I got faith in ya JW! But, if for some reason the bow gremlins get in your shop and sabotage your efforts, I probably have an ERC limb that would do quite nicely! I'm pretty sure it could be had pretty reasonably too. ;) Josh
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JW you are by far my favorite comedian. I am interested to see if you can get er done. If not then nothing lost and plenty gained. I need to write down some of your JWisms they are priceless. Danny
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I think I came across a web site where a guy had made several bows from incense ceder he stressed the importance of keeping in moisture, basically he made a nearly green wood bow and did his best to keep them that way
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Back it with some Dog Bone rawhide, that stuff is thick enough to hold it together.
Grady
I have antelope rawhide, too. It's about as thin as the paper you print business cards on. You can't break it. In fact a moron in my shop told me once it was worthless and I should be using buffalo rawhide. I handed him a quarter inch wide strip about a foot long and told him to break it. He wrapped it around his hands and gave it a pop. Both pinkies were nearly severed. One was cut to the bone and the other had the rawhide lined up with the first joint and the rawhide was stuck inside the joint. Had to drive the idiot to the emergency room.
Seems there are three types of folks. There are the rare few that can learn by reading. A few others learn from what they are told. The third and largest group just has to pee on the electric fence for themselves.
wow, i don't even know what to say...
Except i do believe you can make a shooter out of it JW, still wanna see some pics!