Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Around the Campfire => Topic started by: MartinHeZ on May 29, 2013, 10:24:13 am
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Hi everyone,
I'd like to start by apologizing as I'm not entirely sure if this is the most appropriate place for this, if not if someone can throw it where it should be, that would be great thank you.
Well first I'll introduce myself, as I'm new around these parts, name's Martin, and 22 and from the UK (which is actually what the topic is really about). I recently got myself involved with bush craft, started with the idea that I wanted to make my own bow and set of arrows. Started with a Bamboo bundle bow, and a few bamboo arrows, soon as my wife saw the fun that comes with them, she twisted my arm into making her one as well, didn't take all that much twisting, I've since decided to start on making a board bow, although finding suitable wood cheaply is a bit difficult for me. I'm currently trying my hand at making my own nettle cordage and will be heading out in the next few days to gather some material for making pine pitch and hopefully will find a few shoots I can use for arrows and a nice pile of flint, intending to try and get at least of an adequate ability in every aspect of bush craft I can.
But the point of the topic is really to ask if there is anyone around here who's living in the UK, willing to give me a bit of advice on where/when I can get my hands on any materials I need, or anyone who isn't in the UK but has that sort of information to hand even.
I also wanted to ask if it's worth me trying my skills to make a board bow from softwood, a decent backing on of course but mainly just do this to make a bow that could be used, but would give me a good chance to hone skills and techniques, and get used to the tools a bit more.
Anyways, this turned out to be a lot longer then I wanted it to be so I'll leave it there.
P.S. Will be posting pics of the bundle bows and bamboo arrows that I made in due course, although they are far from the standard that you're all used to seeing around here :o
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Hi Martin, welcome to PA.
I'm from Ireland and share your pain at the lack of decent, readily available wood with which to make bows. If the UK is anything like Ireland, the "timber trade" is all about pressure-treated pine... "sure, we'll sell you some fence posts, but remember to come back in 15 or 20 years when they've rotted and need replacing... ;)"
Unfortunately I'm unable to help with regard to you request for information on raw materials - I've not jumped that far into the rabbit-hole with regard to "making my own products", so hats off to you for going in both feet first!! :D
I'm sure though, there'll be plenty of guys that'll be along to help you with your questions :)
Steve.
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I'm American, but pay attention to the situation in England...got family in London and head over your side every so often.
Check out Del the Cat's bows. Seems he's got it figured.
He's working mostly with Yew, but I want to say he's found Hawthorne...not sure.
I'd ask the local church if they need any of their yew trees pruned. I healthy branch will do the job. Then, just be patient enough to let the wood season.
Hope you saw the link - Primitive Archery is Alive and Growing in England - or something along those lines.
Hope you "stick" with it. ::)
Good luck in your search and welcome to PA, Martin.
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Hi
Whereabouts in the UK are you?.... There are some fantastic archers and bowmakers on this little island and I'm sure that they will all be pleased to help you.
i'd suggest harvesting your own bow staves from woodland areas, we have some excellent bow wods such as Elm, Hazel,Ash and yew ( to name but only a few!)
All the best and I'm sure that you will find the info you need
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Thanks keef, I'm up in the north east, just outside Newcastle, I have a couple little woodlands nearby, but nothing of any real use to me from what I've noticed, and I doubt I have the skills needed to take what materials I need and not leave the tree in such a state it's not going to survive, which to me, means it's not really worth it. This is looking like my best option for getting anything useable though.
Thanks Parnell I've had a look around for the link you mentioned and I've found a couple things that I'm still looking at, my connection is being terrible at the moment though and it takes a good 3-4mins to load a basic webpage, so loosing the will to live, might just get out some more bamboo shafts and start working again. I know a couple churches near me with rather large grounds, I'll have a look and see what they have growing, and ask if they would like some voluntary work done. >:D
Hatcha I can honestly say I share the pain, only wood purchasable in our lumber industry isn't worth the time from what I can see, unless I start looking at specialist traders, I had the idea of looking for real wood flooring earlier, just finding anything that I could actually put to use might be an issue, but it's my best chance of getting some decent hardwood to be honest.
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The link I was referring to is thumbnailed to the top of the "Primitive Skills" main category in forums. Believe MarkinEngland authored it.
I was thinking of Hazel, referring to Del - not Hawthorne.
If you read about sinew backing a bow you'll see it doesn't take much yew to make an efficient shooter. Check out Simson's little West Coast style he's recently posted. Sinew and hide glue could be shipped fairly reasonably priced, I'd think. Maybe not the easiest first bow...but perhaps something to aspire to?
There'll be plenty of options for you!
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You really need to get yourself ..'The Bowyers Bible volume I and read it from cover to cover...You can get it on Amazon etc...
I would forget board bows for now and get yourself
1/ A good saw ...Bahco Laplander..Recommended
2/ A drawknife... check out green woodworking sites
3/ A Farriers Rasp... Check out farriers sites!!
4/ A Cabinet Scraper... Axminster tools etc etc
5/ Some sandpaper in 60, 120 and 220 grits
You might also need.......
A set of cheap digital scales, a chainsaw file ( cheap) and some superglue ( can come in usefull)
For strings get a spool of B50 bowstring material.... You might opt for fastflight as your next purchase
Get your debit card out!!!
Keith
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Parnell,
That's the link I was looking at I've also looked into backing bows a bit as well, was wondering what else I could use for backing that's very, very cheap, as unfortunately I lost my job not too long ago (so have a lot of people up here really) so money is in very short supply, although I have a huge amount of spare time now, so cost is the main issue I have really, having anything shipped from anywhere tends to be at too high a cost, I tend to aspire to things bigger then what I can actually do, but I always look at failure as a lesson, and the chance to practice techniques and skills, don't mind not getting the result I wanted as long as I know why I didn't.
keef,
I already have a couple of those things, the saw (although it isn't a good one), rasp and selection of sandpaper. The rest of them I already have on a nice little wishlist tucked away from my pennies I'm saving, as well as The Bowyers Bible. In the case of bowstring I was thinking of trying out the nettle cordage I'm making as a string, not sure how it will hold up but I can only image the string would go before the bow, so I wouldn't really be loosing anything (maybe my dignity and an eye?)
The money issues should go by time I have harvested and seasoned my own stave, so such issues shouldn't even matter, but that's not really my sort of luck.
Thanks for the flowing advise here guys, appreciate it.
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Nettle cordage is a nice little experiment to try , but I would get some proper bow string material to use, as you are going to want to try out your bows and you can easily make quality bowstrings with either B50 or linen thread
Sorry for the quick reply.
All the very best
Keef
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If you are OK with having a rope for a string, your nettle cord should work.
Linen fabric or burlap... both good backings.
For a bow that is near perfect on the back, you could use denim from old jeans...
Put on at least 2 layers.
Cheap jute twine is OK for a super thick bowstring... On a relatively light bow- under 50 pounds...
Yea, B50 far beats many other materials....
But it does cost $10 for a small spool. Cheap if you have $$$ but if you don't have a job, $10 here and $10 there really adds up.
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Welcome to the site. Can't offer any advice for the Uk, but you can't do much better then the info on this site.
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The one thing we do have in the UK, and have a lot of, is ash. With the current problems involving the Ash Dieback Disease people are chopping down ash trees everywhere. I recently got hold of four 7ft long 5inch diameter ash logs/trunks for free, which are perfect for all sorts of bows. It's a real pig to work - shaping granite with a toothpick would be quicker - but once you're down to a rough bow shape you're ok.
Have a word with local tree surgeons, farmers, land owners and so on to see if they have anything you could take or pay a small amount for, and you might be surprised.
If you can't find trees to work with, timber yards all over the UK are full of ash boards and planks and most of them will chop bits up to sensible sizes for you as well, usually for free with the wood itself costing pennies.
Only other thing is - a string breaking on a bow can quite easily break the bow at the same time. It's essentially dry-firing if it goes under tension. Make sure you've got a reliable, strong string before using it on a bow you've worked hard on!
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Hi Martin,
I'm not a million miles away - Leeds. I'm only on my 2nd bow though, so definitely a beginner bowyer.
Wood:
I got a couple of OK bits of ash from a local tree surgeon - out of the pile they chop up for logs for sale. You could try asking on BCUK as well - there may be someone involved in woodland management or with a permission around you who could help. There's several good bowyers who are regulars on BCUK, so that's probably a good place to ask for help generally.
I generally buy unspined arrow shafts and untrimmed feathers for arrow making, but if you have a poultry farm anywhere nearby you might be able to get some feathers from them.
You could try contacting Butsfield Bowmen (nearest NFAS club to you) - that's probably your best bet to get connected with the local archery community.
Hope that helps,
MrHare.
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You talked about fence posts. I made my first 2 bows from fence (BL) posts from the man I hunted on. Since then I made 6 others from one hundard year old plus osage post. Pulled out of the ground. I've made 5 other from old barn kept posts.
I know you don't have OSAGE but sure the farmers around you use a hard wood for posts. And hard wood posts make good staves. Look around.
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Sounds like you've been given some good leads. I'd strongly consider reading Traditional Bowyer's Bible #1, as recommended.
You'd be amazed how much you can accomplish with a hatchet and a knife!
Just think, our paleolithic ancestors accomplished "the whole 9 yards" using flint from your hills, over there.
Speaking of English flint...there is something you could also be on the hunt for! Learn about knapping! I found knappable material in a pile of rubble in the back garden in London! You never know...
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Thanks for the replies guys, appreciate the info and warm welcome.
Keef,
Yeah the nettle cordage was a nice little experiment, didn't go too badly but like Squirrelslinger said, it's like a rope, and I'm not risking using that, plus I don't want to have to make nocks on my arrows that big :o
Thesquirrelslinger,
Thanks for the advice there, will definitely look around the second hand/charity shops around my area and see what cheap clothing I can pick up, already on the lookout for leathers to use for handles and the likes. As for Jute twine, no idea about that, guessing it's an American thing (or maybe I just live under a rock?) Is there anyway I can test out the strength of a string without putting it on a bow and risking loosing my face/bow? What would be the best way to simulate the stress from drawing? Simply suspending a similar #age weight from it?
Lemos
Thanks, I can already see you're right on the money there.
WillS,
Thanks for the advice on the string, will definitely not be trying anything that I'm not 100% comfortable with then, in terms of the ash stuff, thanks a heap for the information, great help and I'm starting to get in touch with local surgeons and the like to see what I can drum up.
MrHare,
Thanks for the tips on ash aswell, like I said looking into it now, will be joining up on BCUK as well and seeing what I can find there, thanks. I also have a small sort of petting zoo farm, well actually 2, not far from me, both have geese and I'm going to get in touch with them about getting some feathers for free, should do the trick.
crooketarrow,
What I think hatcha means is more the fence posts you can buy in local DYI stores here, which are soft wood and tend to disintegrate rather fast, pretty useless to be honest, but thanks for the input, I have a few farms nearby, going to try and get in touch with them as well anyways.
Parnell,
That's actually on my list, I know a place next to some farmland, in the middle of a recently planted park forest, that has a few little streams running, where I used to collect up flint for skimming on the pond, so that's going to be my next stop, as soon as it stops raining... stupid British weather ruins everything really.
In other news, I think I might of just hit a gold mine, was looking around for local surgeons and the likes, and came across a guy who wanted some trees felling, thought I would contact and see what was going on. After a couple of emails back and forth, he tells me that there are 10 large trees on the land he just bought, he wants them gone, completely, and had a quote from a professional who must of asked for a rather large amount, as he has just posted online for people to come and cut what they want. Asked if he has any idea what type of trees they are and told me that the surgeon quoted him for 6 hardwood and 4 softwood trees, but he has no idea what they actually are, this seems rather promising to me, and I just need to try and find some transport now, as unfortunately I don't drive, nor do I have a large enough vehicle to transport 6 large hardwood trees hehe.
I also just realized, as I came in the house, that about 10ft from my front door. Is an Ash tree. Although I don't have the permission, nor the reckless disregard, to cut from such a young tree, as I'm sure it wouldn't survive it, but still, got to appreciate the irony.
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I remember when I first got the bug and started this hobby how utterly addicted I became at looking for material everywhere I went. Things haven't changed much, four and a half years later! Enjoy the ride, if you've been bitten by the bug, you'll find the way.
Also, on the string front. If you've got a shoe maker/repair business or basket weaver in your area...look for irish lockstich linen. Make an endless loop string and you'll be more than happy. A small spool is inexpensive.
Look for that flint and keep me/us posted on that! I'd bet people would be pretty excited to see some knapping being done over on your side...you'll find that main link full of very helpful people, as well! If I can be a help, just send me a PM.
Good luck, buddy.
Stephen Parnell
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Thanks Parnell, yes definitely bitten. I had a quick look around the knapping section here and pretty much ran away when I saw what people were managing to create, and then looking at the methods/techniques, but then spotted my wife drinking from a glass bottle, and changed my mind, its currently drying along with 2 others in the kitchen, will be breaking it up and getting some practice once I get a hold of something to use to knapp.
A little conversation between my wife and I on the way home.
I looked up as we passed a rather large tree over hanging from a cemetery that took my interest, "Wonder what that is..."
my wife retorted with "Martin. It's a tree, can we go home now."
She seems to be loosing her patience with my constant obsession. Poor woman.
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You'll find that there is a bow-a-holics support group, here. When I travel throughout the states part of my vacation time is usually spent "gathering materials". Most of the community is the same way. Arrowshafting in particular - bamboo, cane, hardwood shoots, etc. After awhile, Angie just figured I could be doing much worse with my time!
I wonder if you could grow Japanese Arrow Bamboo in your garden? I bet you could...
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Would if I could parnel but I don't have a garden, I live in a flat so space and outdoors are an issue for me, but enginuity is in my nature so its all good, Tegan (wife) is rather accepting, just has her limits like every woman lol
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Gotcha. I'll be watching for your progress. ;)