Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Arrows => Topic started by: stringstretcher on May 31, 2013, 03:47:41 pm
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I have seen some debate lately about natural arrow material not being up to what today's commercial arrow material are. Some are claiming that bamboo/cane are not able to be matched close enough for a quality matched set. And they are including other natural arrow material in this debate as well.
So tell me, with out any commercial arrow material available to you, what would be your choice to make and use that would fit the parameters of equal in weight, spine, consistency and durability.
Or maybe you don't require any of the above qualities that are so sought after in today's modern archery concept. Love to hear your thoughts, comments, and ever debate on this.
And remember these materials have to be able to do it all. Hunt, target, 3D, and all. What is your choice.
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Im a hardcore boo guy Charlie. But I gotta say after Hippy gave me some Hill cane at the classic, Im in love. I have bounced a few off trees as I so often do and none are worse for wear. I shot miserably all weekend in Marshall and never knicked a shaft. My shafts vary at least 5# in spine and wobble, but fly like bullets all the same. Any cane or boo is a-ok in my book.
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you shot great compared to me Chris at Marshall. I've been shooting poc shafts and I am done with them. but then again when you hit a tree with a 55 pound bow what can you ask for ::)
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They will not compete with boo or cane in the looks department, but poplar shafts are a big step up in my book from cedar - - so long as you are shooting 50 pounds and up, since they weigh in a little heavier than cedar. Tough and easy to straighten - but no sweet cedar smell.
Russ
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I haven't had a chance to play with too many materials, but I will take anything over carbon. When wood or other natural material fails, you know it. Carbon can look fine at a glance and still leave a bunch of splinters in your skin.
If I had to choose from local stuff, I would start with birch and poplar, then ash and settle on what works best.
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I use oak. Works for me.
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I have been using Ocean Spray (ironwood) I have also been hand planning some 100yr old barn boards cut from old growth fir. Both make very nice arrows.
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I have made serviceable arrows out of a few different materials. Cane grows all over the place where I live, as well as several species of viburnum, and some other shrubs that will make an arrow. I have used a lot of cane, it flies well and is very durable, but it can be kinda ugly lol. I like the viburnum that grows on my property. There is a lot of it, and it's just as durable as cane IMO. It grows in long straight shoots and has a small pith in the center. The taper is pretty straight, it spines consistently, and when you finish straightening it, it almost looks store bought. :)
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Charlie; my first choice is Tonkin Bamboo, followed by, old hippy's Hill Cane. Tonkin is darn near indestructable and I just bought a bundle of 500.
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I have yet to use cane arrows because we grow so little cane here in South Dakota. I have made a few chokecherry shafts...pretty tough, and they restraighten easily enough when abused.
For prepared and dowelled shafting, my favorite so far has been sitka spruce. They are twice as tough as cedar with only about 10% heavier weight. Pretty easy to keep straight too. Recently I bought a mess of ash arrow shafting from Allegheny Mtn Arrow Woods. They are tougher than heck, but a might heavy. My latest dozen arrows came in at 720 grains with the 125 grain field points. They may be slow, but they eat up a lot of handshock from a bow!!!
The other downside of the ash was that they are a bit harder to keep straight.
As you can tell by now, my main criteria for arrow materials is how miserable I am trying to get them straight. I hate straightening arrows. I would rather get experimental dental surgery without anesthesia in a third world country than straighten arrow shafts.
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I like wild rose. It's heavy, which I like, and is as tough as any wood I've encountered so far!
Dale
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I have made arrows out of wild rose too. They make excellent arrows too
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I've got a variety in my quiver for hunting and would prefer Tonkin / cane but if only local material then as follows by availability:
Wild rose
Red osier dogwood
Amur honeysuckle
Tracy
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Dogwood would be first. Wild Rose and Cane following it up.
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Poplar for sure.
Jon
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I think sourwood is my favorite with hill cane next. I also like red osier and viburnum and the poplar shafts from Charlie(stringstretcher) ;)
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tonkin cane
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I have only played with poc and red osier. The red osier wins out in the toughness department. Poc just don't cut it. I just split a hickory log from my fire wood pile to start them to drying. This winter I will straighten the planks and cut/dowel and see what I have. I gotta hit the woods this weekend and get some poplar for poplar shafting.
Greg
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I prefer sourwood when I can get it. The arrows I made from that last forever.
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I use what I can get in board stock. Lately that has been spruce and Douglas fir. I have also used Loblolly pine. It's heavier but pretty tough.
We have our impressions of what makes a tough arrow, but that's based on perhaps dozens of undesirable impacts and the results of those. Not very scientific or even practical. But all the woods mentioned above will work, and we have to use what we can get.
Studying wood strength charts reveals that POC has about the best mix of strength and weight characteristics, which is why it has ruled the roost for so long. There are other woods that are as strong or stronger, but they weigh more or are not as stiff.
Red spruce comes close, as does Sitka spruce. Douglass fir's drawback is its weight. But it makes a good arrow. Virginia pine wood be interesting to try, though it would be hard to be sure that's what you were working with unless you cut the tree yourself.
In the table here:http://www.woodworkweb.com/woodwork-topics/wood/146-wood-strengths.html (http://www.woodworkweb.com/woodwork-topics/wood/146-wood-strengths.html) look toward the bottom of the page for U.S. Softwoods. The first three columns of figures are the most useful information. The third column in particular gives some indication of how likely the wood is to break if the arrow strikes a glancing blow.
Jim Davis
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Ash, honeysyckle shoots, and cane.
I despise POC after shattering shafts just by shooting them.
I will agree POC is light though... and man, a broken POC shaft smells sooo good!
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Ash, honeysyckle shoots, and cane...
Really??? The honeysuckle I have here in western Kentucky would be like fletching and shooting a hank of rope!
Jim Davis
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I'm working some red osier right now that I cut back in March. It doesn't want to stay straight. Do you Osier experts have any advice?
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I use the Cain that grows on the hills behind the house.
It is free and there is plenty of it. I have to sort through 40 or 50 of them to get a well matched dozen arrows but who cares it free. The stuff is great for arrows.
Asharrow: TSS is referring to Chinese Honeysuckle Bush, Not Japanese Honeysuckle Vine.
David
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Like a lot of you guys, I have made arrows from a variety of materials that are accessible to me locally. When going from standing tree to shootable arrow, I would have to go with either red or white ash. Grows straight, no knots, splits clean and forms easily. Has good weight, stays straight, and as the English used to say, "hits with good stripe"! Hickory is a close second, but it is harder to work, for me anyway. Poplar is third because it takes a lot longer to season properly and is kind of light. I have never been much for speed, the heavier arrows seem to absorb any noise upon release and turn it into energy for a hard hitting impact. Quiet, slow but sure and forceful, that's what I like. Cane doesn't grow around here or I would have tried it. I have heard so many good reports on it, maybe someday. Hah, their all good if you can make them work for you!
Robby
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Anything that leaves with just the nock showing as it flys away from you like a lazer dart.Each has its share that can do that.Split old growth douglass fir & spruce first,then bamboo,dogwood and sourwood as far as percentages go,but for toughness factor the later three take first place.A set of each is nice to have around.Need to try some poplar sometime.
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Ash, honeysyckle shoots, and cane...
Really??? The honeysuckle I have here in western Kentucky would be like fletching and shooting a hank of rope!
Jim Davis
Maybe your honeysuckle is different.
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Birch is my first choice if I need to make arrows quick. Dry, easy to straighten, and cheap.
Second would be fur. Like birch, it's cheap, dry, straight, and ready to go in a pinch. I made a hundred shafts a long time ago and loved 'em. I got depressed when I had to leave them in storage and then they got thrown out. I need to make more.
Third would be natural shoots: privet, sourwood, yaupon holly, and roosevelt weed being my favorites.
Then cane and phragmites.
Hickory is also very good but the grain has to be locked down with a good coat of shellac or poly. The grain is easily "raised" when it gets wet.
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Birch is my first choice if I need to make arrows quick. Dry, easy to straighten, and cheap.
Second would be fur. Like birch, it's cheap, dry, straight, and ready to go in a pinch. I made a hundred shafts a long time ago and loved 'em. I got depressed when I had to leave them in storage and then they got thrown out. I need to make more.
Third would be natural shoots: privet, sourwood, yaupon holly, and roosevelt weed being my favorites.
Then cane and phragmites.
Hickory is also very good but the grain has to be locked down with a good coat of shellac or poly. The grain is easily "raised" when it gets wet.
You do mean fir, right? I dunno if you could make an arrow out of animal fur.
If you make an arrow shaft from fur, my hat goes off to you, sir.
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You do mean fir, right? I dunno if you could make an arrow out of animal fur.
If you make an arrow shaft from fur, my hat goes off to you, sir.
Congratulations. You've uncovered Patrick's first typo in months!
Have a cookie.
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I'm working some red osier right now that I cut back in March. It doesn't want to stay straight. Do you Osier experts have any advice?
I am not an expert by any stretch but Red osier will change a little when the humidity changes drastically. Just use some moderate heat to straighten it out and you will be okay. 4 coats of a good poly that is NOT water base is best then they don't change much.
You will find it is a great arrow wood that is very tough. It will take repeated direct impacts with trees shooting at tree rats with not ill effects. It is a bit heavier. If you shoot 50 lbs and over you will really like it.
Greg
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Yes, fir. ::)
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Thanks Greg. I dipped a few in a water base sealer and they warped. I hand straightened them and they seem ok now. Next few I'll try pitch varnish. I've used Service Berry, Hazel nut and Ocean Spray with incredible results. Doug fir is pretty good too. Really been getting into shoots. There a lot of work but incredibly tough! Kills you to loose one though.
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Thanks Greg. I dipped a few in a water base sealer and they warped. I hand straightened them and they seem ok now. Next few I'll try pitch varnish. I've used Service Berry, Hazel nut and Ocean Spray with incredible results. Doug fir is pretty good too. Really been getting into shoots. There a lot of work but incredibly tough! Kills you to loose one though.
Yes, I will search for a while because they do take some work to make but once straight they are great. I am going to have to try hazel nut and see how they do.
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Bamboo.
just cause it's easier than planing a shaft out of a blank like with poplar or cedar. ;)
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Third would be natural shoots: privet, sourwood, yaupon holly, and roosevelt weed being my favorites.
Will any holly work or just yaupon?
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As long as it's straight, any holly should work. Yaupon is similar to osier but heavier.
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I've seen good results with hard rock maple, red balau,, leopardwood, mahogany, and teak. They recover from paradox quicker than softwoods so I can underspine a bit. They also have interlocking grain and some weigh less than 400 grains.
Kevin