Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Jacob Parnell on June 27, 2013, 09:46:24 am
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Hi everyone!
My friend and I want to make a bow and set of arrows each. However since we are in high school, we don't have a lot of time to build one - about 2 months. I really don't know how long bow wood takes to season. Some say a month, some say 3 years. But I heard about a drying kiln off of a video somewhere. I heard it only takes around 10 days to dry wood with it. So considering the time we have to make this bow, which route should we go?
Thanks so much,
Jacob
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Seasoned wood IMO is better but you can quick dry most white wood in a month or so by working it down to bow size and put it up in a good dry place,then every time you work it put it back in a good dry place,like over an ac duct this time of year.I wouldn't go with the Kiln drying,you can get to dry and it becomes brittle. :)
Pappy
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While both bows and arrows can be made with dry wood, seasoned wood make both better. Seasoned wood is more stable so for bows they are less apt to take set(if you do your part) or warp and arrows are more apt to stay straight.
If you are both beginners start with red oak or other appropriate boards. They are chep, readily available and will make good bows. For arrows natural shoots or cane can be dried in a month or so and make great arrows. You can also use hardwood dowels for arrows but you will have to hand pick these to get the right grain configuration or bamboo tomatoe stakes from a gardening supply store.
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While both bows and arrows can be made with dry wood, seasoned wood make both better. Seasoned wood is more stable so for bows they are less apt to take set(if you do your part) or warp and arrows are more apt to stay straight.
If you are both beginners start with red oak or other appropriate boards. They are chep, readily available and will make good bows. For arrows natural shoots or cane can be dried in a month or so and make great arrows. You can also use hardwood dowels for arrows but you will have to hand pick these to get the right grain configuration or bamboo tomatoe stakes from a gardening supply store.
I wasn't planning on buying boards, since it is hard to find good ones. I could just buy lumber or cut down a tree
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Or buy a stave ready to go.
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..or trade for a seasoned stave(s) on the Trading Post.
Boards are lumber! You can buy them from a place like Home Depot or Lowe's or from a specialty lumber store.
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Way back, the kiln-dried/air-dried issue was pretty hot among archers and airplane builders.
Eventually it has settled out that wood is not damaged by kiln-drying unless the wood is gotten very hot--over 250 degrees or so.
But then, some of us heat-treat the bellies of certain bows to increase the compression strength, getting the wood considerably hotter than that.
I think you would be fine using kiln-dried wood, but buying a dry stave is probably the best approach, followed by buying a dry red oak board.
Jim
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Way back, the kiln-dried/air-dried issue was pretty hot among archers and airplane builders.
Eventually it has settled out that wood is not damaged by kiln-drying unless the wood is gotten very hot--over 250 degrees or so.
But then, some of us heat-treat the bellies of certain bows to increase the compression strength, getting the wood considerably hotter than that.
I think you would be fine using kiln-dried wood, but buying a dry stave is probably the best approach, followed by buying a dry red oak board.
Jim
Thanks so much. I think I'm gonna go to a mill and just order a pr dried log. Is that a good Idea?
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It's crucial you inspect it properly yourself, rather than say "yeah, so it needs to be this long, straight, free of knots, no twist, no checks, with sealed ends, stored properly...." and expecting a non-bowyer to deliver a suitable log. People try their best to help out, but if they don't have a bowyers eye, you tend to get stuffed up quite easily.
Also, if the log has any character at all, from slight twist to pin clusters and so on (and lets face it - it's wood, so it will!) making your very first bow from it will be HARD. Not impossible - plenty of guys can do it - but tricky. If the goal here is to speed through and get a practical bow, the board route is the most straightforward. If the goal is to learn, make mistakes, develop specific skills and get thoroughly frustrated before having a practical bow, get a log or stave.
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It's crucial you inspect it properly yourself, rather than say "yeah, so it needs to be this long, straight, free of knots, no twist, no checks, with sealed ends, stored properly...." and expecting a non-bowyer to deliver a suitable log. People try their best to help out, but if they don't have a bowyers eye, you tend to get stuffed up quite easily.
Also, if the log has any character at all, from slight twist to pin clusters and so on (and lets face it - it's wood, so it will!) making your very first bow from it will be HARD. Not impossible - plenty of guys can do it - but tricky. If the goal here is to speed through and get a practical bow, the board route is the most straightforward. If the goal is to learn, make mistakes, develop specific skills and get thoroughly frustrated before having a practical bow, get a log or stave.
thanks. I think that the log or tree route is the one i want to go. What is the board route though?
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Hi everyone!
However since we are in high school, we don't have a lot of time to build one - about 2 months.
Oh son... You have more time now to build a bow then you will ever will. Be patient, you have a whole lifetime ahead of you. ::) ;) ;D That being said I think you should season your own wood or find a good seasoned stave to trade for or buy. i know some people like board bows but I seriously think that if my first bow was a board bow i wouldn't have made another bow and got hooked. Board bows just don't get my juices flowing like a stave bow does.
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Hi everyone!
However since we are in high school, we don't have a lot of time to build one - about 2 months.
Oh son... You have more time now to build a bow then you will ever will. Be patient, you have a whole lifetime ahead of you. ::) ;) ;D That being said I think you should season your own wood or find a good seasoned stave to trade for or buy. i know some people like board bows but I seriously think that if my first bow was a board bow i wouldn't have made another bow and got hooked. Board bows just don't get my juices flowing like a stave bow does.
Ok :D where could I get the stave from? should I cut my own tree down or just buy a stave.
And how long would a bow take to season?
Thanks!
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BG, most guys cutting logs for a saw mill are not familiar with wood for bows so they don't care it the tree grew in a spiral or whatever. If it is a whitewood like ash or hickory it won't take long for fungi to move in(that is its job afterall) making it useless for bow building. Even sitting around the saw mill yard for a week or more the log can get infected. For building materials, furnature, etc that isn't necessarily a problem but it can(and usually is) the death for a bow. If you want to cut the tree yourself be sure to study the bark on the trunk well. If the bark spirals or twists so will your bow stave.
Where are you located(general area). That will make a difference as to what stave woods you will have availble for you to build bows.
Board bows are an expensive way to go, especially for a beginner. Once a bow is built from a board it can be hard to tell the difference and you can get the same performance, or almost so, from a board if you do your part.
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BG, most guys cutting logs for a saw mill are not familiar with wood for bows so they don't care it the tree grew in a spiral or whatever. If it is a whitewood like ash or hickory it won't take long for fungi to move in(that is its job afterall) making it useless for bow building. Even sitting around the saw mill yard for a week or more the log can get infected. For building materials, furnature, etc that isn't necessarily a problem but it can(and usually is) the death for a bow. If you want to cut the tree yourself be sure to study the bark on the trunk well. If the bark spirals or twists so will your bow stave.
Where are you located(general area). That will make a difference as to what stave woods you will have availble for you to build bows.
Board bows are an expensive way to go, especially for a beginner. Once a bow is built from a board it can be hard to tell the difference and you can get the same performance, or almost so, from a board if you do your part.
I live in the Peterborough/Kawartha Lakes Region. I honestly am stumped (no pun intended). I have no idea whether I should make a board bow, or a bow from a tree, whether I should season or let it dry in a kiln, and what wood to use. It's the hardest wood project I have ever attempted, but I plan to succeed.
THanks for commenting!
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Your best bet to get you to building a bow is to buy a board. On the top of the "How To" thread page is George Tsoukalas' website. Read that! George explains everything you need to know about selecting the proper board and a step by step "how to" build a board bow. You should be able to buy a board big enough to build two bows for less than $20 and you might have enough left over to make a few arrows too.
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Your best bet to get you to building a bow is to buy a board. On the top of the "How To" thread page is George Tsoukalas' website. Read that! George explains everything you need to know about selecting the proper board and a step by step "how to" build a board bow. You should be able to buy a board big enough to build two bows for less than $20 and you might have enough left over to make a few arrows too.
Very cool, thanks sooo much. I think we will build a board bow just to see if we like it. Once we get better at it, we'll start with a tree. Can you give me a link to that thread?
Thanks again
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http://georgeandjoni.home.comcast.net/~georgeandjoni/
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http://georgeandjoni.home.comcast.net/~georgeandjoni/
Thanks so much. I'm gonna use a combination of George's and this guys tutorials:
http://poorfolkbows.com/oak.htm
Thanks Pat!
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This issue of drying wood has come up quite a few times on this site. Is there any diffrence between drying wood naturally over an extended period of say 2 years and Kiln dried.?
I would say it could be brittle either way. The only way to know what is better would be to conduct Lab Tests showing various wood species under both drying conditions. Other than that I'am not confident that drying wood the slow way is any better. I need scientific lab proof.......! ???
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Seasoned wood is more stable! Dry wood works but IMO seasoned wood works a lot better.
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I did this buildfor guys wanting to get a good board bow, nothing against red oak but hard maple is a better choice imo, also you don't have to use the same equipment that I did, but the dimensions will work out the same http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,35312.0.html
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I think it was Pearl Drums that helped that guy build a board bow a little while back. He walked him step by step thru the entire process and it took probly 15-20 pages. I don't have the link but if someone else does then that is a great thread for just starting out. It will help you to realize how much you have to slow down and take it step by step.
Keep your eye out for a tree to harvest and split even if you do the board bow because staves still take a long time to season and if you wait then you will be in the same position as you are now....wanting to build another bow and don't have any seasoned staves. You got to think in the present and for the future.
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I think it was Pearl Drums that helped that guy build a board bow a little while back. He walked him step by step thru the entire process and it took probly 15-20 pages. I don't have the link but if someone else does then that is a great thread for just starting out. It will help you to realize how much you have to slow down and take it step by step.
Keep your eye out for a tree to harvest and split even if you do the board bow because staves still take a long time to season and if you wait then you will be in the same position as you are now....wanting to build another bow and don't have any seasoned staves. You got to think in the present and for the future.
That's exactly how i have been thinking ;). I probably will do that IF I can find a decent bow wood tree. Would a tree LIMB work?
Thanks everyone!!!
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With hardwood I think you want to use the top half of the limb, the tension side.
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Do you have a friend that owns some land? I would suggest taking your hand saw for a walk in a buddy's wood lot. If ya cut a tree then make him a bow in trade for say 2 trees. I do that so I get like 10 staves for every one i make for someone. Never made a board bow so cannot help there.
Greg