Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Mad Max on August 08, 2013, 06:12:34 pm
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I have some persimon trees on my place, not really any thing else there to make a bow with.
Any Info on cutting in the summer??
debarking, sap wood, drying , ect. ????
there about 8" to 10"
:P
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Looking forward to the your answers on this one. I've got a chance to some persimmon and was wandering the same things. do ya chase a ring?'....tension strong or compression strong? etc.
Thanks
DBar
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Has it go persimmons on it? If it don't bare fruit cut it down!
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Ive cut a quite a few persimmon trees down with intentions of making a bow from it but every tree ive ever cut and split had more twist than I wanted to mess with. The bark would show no signs that the grain was twisted but when i split them they did a 180 around the tree in 6 feet. I know there are others on here that have made bows from it, maybe use the search engine at the top of the page and I bet it will pull up tons of info.
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I cut some last spring and have it seasoning right now. One piece twisted just like yours, the rest are OK so far. I split it, took the bark off and sealed it, but I am just winging it. I have no eperience with persimmon as bow wood other than this, but if I do not try then I will not learn. I may have just made firewood, but I will give it a try here before too long and see if I can coax a bow out of it.
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Treat persimmon like any other whitewood. Cut now and peel the bark off but if you wait much longer the bark will set until next spring. Study the bark to be sure it doesn't have twists in it before you cut it.
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Would this be texas permission, or american
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Would this be texas permission, or american
:)Mississippi, I don't know
They are in the woods, so they are tall and skinny.
okie------- search did not do much.
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Seems that I remember twistedlimbs posting a fine looking persimmon bow in the last couple of years.
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Would this be texas permission, or american
:)Mississippi, I don't know
They are in the woods, so they are tall and skinny.
Probably american then, texas persimmon is a small, gnarly tree ,with white/light gray smooth bark
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Would this be texas permission, or american
:)Mississippi, I don't know
They are in the woods, so they are tall and skinny.
Probably american then, texas persimmon is a small, gnarly tree ,with white/light gray smooth bark
the bark is dark and the trees are 30' tall :-\
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I have had some good luck with persimmon, it frets really easy, like B-locust or B-walnut, but otherwise makes a good bow. Too high a crown will crack on the back. not really great in tension or compression in my personal opinion, but it sounds like your trees are wide enough you wont have to worry about crown issues... most of what I get down here are saplings. It does tend to twist really bad during and after splitting. It's really gamble with persimmon, some twist like crazy, some stay straight. don't chase a ring, just peel the bark and seal the back and ends with wax. You'll definitely want to re-seal the back b\c it will check bad otherwise. You can't leave the bark on either b\c the borers love the stuff.. Wouldn't hurt to spray it with a little insecticide anyways, but if you leave the bark on, they will just eat them to pieces.
the trees that I have down here will turn black on the back if you gently remove the summertime bark and seal with hot parrafin wax. It takes a week or so to turn black.... but pretty much all of them do it that I have cut. The belly takes on some green colors, but if you knick the back, the black will chip off...its only paper thin so if you like the black, don't sand it, just heat gently and wipe the wax away.
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thanks ;)
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I have had some good luck with persimmon, it frets really easy, like B-locust or B-walnut, but otherwise makes a good bow. Too high a crown will crack on the back. not really great in tension or compression in my personal opinion, but it sounds like your trees are wide enough you wont have to worry about crown issues... most of what I get down here are saplings. It does tend to twist really bad during and after splitting. It's really gamble with persimmon, some twist like crazy, some stay straight. don't chase a ring, just peel the bark and seal the back and ends with wax. You'll definitely want to re-seal the back b\c it will check bad otherwise. You can't leave the bark on either b\c the borers love the stuff.. Wouldn't hurt to spray it with a little insecticide anyways, but if you leave the bark on, they will just eat them to pieces.
the trees that I have down here will turn black on the back if you gently remove the summertime bark and seal with hot parrafin wax. It takes a week or so to turn black.... but pretty much all of them do it that I have cut. The belly takes on some green colors, but if you knick the back, the black will chip off...its only paper thin so if you like the black, don't sand it, just heat gently and wipe the wax away.
What is b/c----------------- and does it have to be WAX, :o I have shellac :)
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Pretty much what has been said,some twist when splitting some don't,most seem to twist worse after getting up the log on the second or 3 cut. Like Pat said check the bark first and be sure it is straight and that will help the odds. I debark right after cutting and seal the back and ends with wood glue cut with water,Like Ryan said bug love the stuff and will almost always eat it up if the bark is left on.It will turn a pretty purple color,at least mine do when it is sealed. Make it a little longer will help also.My draw is 26 and I make them 66 t-t 1 1/2 at the fads tapered to less than a 1/2 at the tips.It dose work good with heat so you can straighten most twist if it isn't really bad. Keep it dry as you work with it,it is slow to dry and will take on moisture like most white wood. Makes a good bow and beautiful when finished. Good luck and keep us updated. I got tons of them on my place and fruit or not if it looks good and straight barked I will cut them. ;) :)
Pappy
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I just finished a Persimmon bow. Well, not finished, I still have to polyurethane and wrap the grip. I cut the tree on a friend's property. I didn't really know what I was doing and stripped the bark and split the piece without coating it. I put it under weight to dry some reflex into it. The back checked badly, but all of the cracks came out in the tillering process.
Here is the back. I should have removed the cambrium before it dried, as it was a pain to take off once dry. The wood has a nice, creamy white color.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-azb2-v841FE/UfFgbOXTtUI/AAAAAAAACv4/VQIRJzPj0EY/w600-h800-no/CAF231A3-A627-4C2E-B282-AEA2FF70667F.JPG)
Here is the belly. The worst checks have been shaved off. Some of the belly wood took on a darker tone. Originally all of the wood was creamy white.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-_8-zw3aRhi8/UfFgbH-zY_I/AAAAAAAACv4/xj3Ab_BXdCo/w600-h800-no/8E71CE1F-55BF-4CAA-9C9D-7FCDACB545F1.JPG)
The stave had a little twist that I took out with steam.
I left it wide and flat and am very happy with how it shoots.
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I just finished a Persimmon bow. Well, not finished, I still have to polyurethane and wrap the grip. I cut the tree on a friend's property. I didn't really know what I was doing and stripped the bark and split the piece without coating it. I put it under weight to dry some reflex into it. The back checked badly, but all of the cracks came out in the tillering process.
Here is the back. I should have removed the cambrium before it dried, as it was a pain to take off once dry. The wood has a nice, creamy white color.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-azb2-v841FE/UfFgbOXTtUI/AAAAAAAACv4/VQIRJzPj0EY/w600-h800-no/CAF231A3-A627-4C2E-B282-AEA2FF70667F.JPG)
Here is the belly. The worst checks have been shaved off. Some of the belly wood took on a darker tone. Originally all of the wood was creamy white.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-_8-zw3aRhi8/UfFgbH-zY_I/AAAAAAAACv4/xj3Ab_BXdCo/w600-h800-no/8E71CE1F-55BF-4CAA-9C9D-7FCDACB545F1.JPG)
The stave had a little twist that I took out with steam.
I left it wide and flat and am very happy with how it shoots.
Is the sap wood on it Matt??
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B\c = "because" lol it's not a finish or anything
yeah, Matt's bow has cambium on it, which is the inner bark. You'll find that persimmon is pretty much all sapwood, no chasing necessary at all. His looks like it will make a pretty bow when finished
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Ok to the person that said if it does not produce fruit cut it.......if the tree never fruits it is a male. Only female trees bare fruit, and you must have a male tree close to a female for it to pollinate. So if you want persimmons for the deer don't cut. That being said if that is what you have and you have a lot cut some and give it a try. Be warned as most said it can have a lot of twist in a tree. All that I have cut have had it to some degree or another. Also peel the bark as soon as you cut and split it out. Also I have been able to clamp a fresh cut stave down to remove all or most twist. To do this work it down some closer to a bow layout. It is a very hard wood that is in the ebony family. Shoot they make golf club driver heads with it.
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I have been thing on how to hold them down so they don't twist.
remember I may get 10 or so.
I have to get a plan of attack . :-\
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Like all the info, just cut my first one this spring. When I took the bark off it filled the shop with the sweetest smell!!! It's 8 " across, I only split it once so far, it did turn purplish on the back. I think the reason on not cutting the fruit bearing trees is the male to female ratio is like 27/1. If my mind serves me well.
Knapper
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Thanks guy's ;)
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Mine that I have cut have a yellow stain come up on the back it will stain your hands.....I used bessey clamps to hold it down....also introduced to reflex at the same time.
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I think i am going to cut 2-- 72" logs , split them in half, seal the ends, take them to my shop and take the bark off carefully, and seal the back.
I may split ONE of those halves and ruff them out and clamp them down.
Then we will see about the others. ???
I try to post some pic. this week. ;)
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please keep us posted, to me this is interesting
chuck
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8/12/2013 7:00 am cut, sealed ends and took to my shop.
Not as big as i wanted, the one on the right is the bottom log, middle log is the top, the left log is the middle cut from the tree.
there all 6' + long
(http://i1293.photobucket.com/albums/b593/osagemark/100_0194_zps8205fad2.jpg) (http://s1293.photobucket.com/user/osagemark/media/100_0194_zps8205fad2.jpg.html)
Split the bottom log (the one at the ground) in half, and split one of those in half
(http://i1293.photobucket.com/albums/b593/osagemark/100_0195_zps95675fcb.jpg) (http://s1293.photobucket.com/user/osagemark/media/100_0195_zps95675fcb.jpg.html)
Split the log in the middle of the tree in half, it's about 6" O.D.
(http://i1293.photobucket.com/albums/b593/osagemark/100_0197_zps8e2eedba.jpg) (http://s1293.photobucket.com/user/osagemark/media/100_0197_zps8e2eedba.jpg.html)
Split the log at the top of the tree in half, it's about 5" O.D.
(http://i1293.photobucket.com/albums/b593/osagemark/100_0196_zpsb0de9009.jpg) (http://s1293.photobucket.com/user/osagemark/media/100_0196_zpsb0de9009.jpg.html)
First stave debarked
(http://i1293.photobucket.com/albums/b593/osagemark/100_0199_zpsaea5d803.jpg) (http://s1293.photobucket.com/user/osagemark/media/100_0199_zpsaea5d803.jpg.html)
The bark is about 3/4" thick, as you start trimming it, some knots show threw.
(http://i1293.photobucket.com/albums/b593/osagemark/100_0201_zpsc7faa393.jpg) (http://s1293.photobucket.com/user/osagemark/media/100_0201_zpsc7faa393.jpg.html)
Under the bark is a grey/sliver color that is very soft and thin and wet, under that is the wood that is cream color. lot's of pin knots
This stave has been sealed.
(http://i1293.photobucket.com/albums/b593/osagemark/100_0200_zps992176fb.jpg) (http://s1293.photobucket.com/user/osagemark/media/100_0200_zps992176fb.jpg.html)
Shows the wood, the grey under bark, and the bark
The soft silver wood comes off very easy, but the pin knots are everywhere .
(http://i1293.photobucket.com/albums/b593/osagemark/100_0198_zps0864bdda.jpg) (http://s1293.photobucket.com/user/osagemark/media/100_0198_zps0864bdda.jpg.html)
I tried to split one of the half log and it split and ran off one edge of the stave before it got to the end. so i got 3 staves out of the bottom log.
(http://i1293.photobucket.com/albums/b593/osagemark/100_0202_zps145197b4.jpg) (http://s1293.photobucket.com/user/osagemark/media/100_0202_zps145197b4.jpg.html)
3 staves sealed and the bark trimmings.
(http://i1293.photobucket.com/albums/b593/osagemark/100_0203_zpsf370b8af.jpg) (http://s1293.photobucket.com/user/osagemark/media/100_0203_zpsf370b8af.jpg.html)
8/12/2013 11:00 AM My under ware and T shirt are soaked and wet, the humidity and heat have taking it all from me, I'am pooped out.
I cleaned the bark up off the floor, and took it outside.
I will try some more in the morning .
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Looks like nice wood, the pin knots could really add some character.
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The tree was about 30' tall and it did have fruit on it.
This is the first tree i have ever cut to make staves , so i'am winging it.
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newindian-- the pin knots stick up into the bark about halfway, you can't see them until you start scraping .
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welcome to wood harvesting...cutting em down is the easy part..now ya must carefylly care for them....id get those backs sealed down real good..a few coats at least...and store em in a cool place with some airflow when not working on em for now...and Id follow twistedlimbs n pappys advice on how to deal with it
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Thanks Blackhawk
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Well blow me down... Thats persimmon?!?! I had cut a piece once thinking it was dog wood. Exact same bark and black wood in spots like yours shows. That bow I made was one heck of a bow. And let me tell you, heat treating it over a camp fire did wonders to it. I have another bit of wood cut 2 years ago, probably going to turn it into a bow fishing rig. Good luck with the wood! Thats good stuff from my experiance.