Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Blaflair2 on August 20, 2013, 02:37:11 am

Title: Hophornbeam static recurve help
Post by: Blaflair2 on August 20, 2013, 02:37:11 am
Yeah yeah I know a static recurve is t the beat plan for my second self bow. But I'm hooked on the static recurve, so I don't care if I mess it up a million times. I gotta make one. I have this and a hickory stave. Hopefully one makes it! With the help of everyone here. I would greatly appreciate it. LF 50-55# @ 30" just to be safe. I'm 6'4" and the stave is taller than me. So I know it's in there. Just gotta free it. I'd like it to be about 60" or somewhere near there. So any dimension suggestions? I was thinking 2" to 1/2" pyramid style. I figure a working handle to make it a little shorter. Let me know if I'm nuts, well I know I'm nuts, so what yas think?
Title: Re: Hophornbeam static recurve help
Post by: Blaflair2 on August 20, 2013, 02:39:14 am
Also not all the bark is off. I know  :laugh:
Title: Re: Hophornbeam static recurve help
Post by: Joec123able on August 20, 2013, 03:16:46 am
So you want a 60 inch static recurve at 30 inch draw for your second self bow ? Ughhh good luck You are going to have to go longer then that no question
Title: Re: Hophornbeam static recurve help
Post by: 1442 on August 20, 2013, 03:38:12 am
I would make wider limbs out farther from the handle to minimize set. you gonna need a lot of bend in the mid section and set will be your biggest hurdle in my mind,  I've never built a static recurve actualy so...
Title: Re: Hophornbeam static recurve help
Post by: Zion on August 20, 2013, 03:38:50 am
You should probably give it a few more inches in length, 64- 66" would shoot fine and would be less likely to fail.
Title: Re: Hophornbeam static recurve help
Post by: Weylin on August 20, 2013, 03:39:59 am
60" - 8" (handle and fades) = 52"/2=26" That tells you that a 60" bow with a normal handle and straight limbs should comfortably give you a 26" draw if it's well designed and tillered. Adding static recurves will substatially reduce the effective working portion of the limbs (not sure by how much exactly) reducing the safe draw length even further. You could, of course make it a bend through the handle which would give you back 4" of safe draw length on the straight limbed design making 30" doable but still not with recurves. A good sinew backing on the bend through the handle, static recurve could possibly tip the balance back in your favor but I think that's a tall order for a second bow. I really recommend building some simpler designs to get the hang of tillering or at least make it longer like Joe said. Good luck.
Title: Re: Hophornbeam static recurve help
Post by: bubby on August 20, 2013, 06:01:28 am
60" - 8" (handle and fades) = 52"/2=26" That tells you that a 60" bow with a normal handle and straight limbs should comfortably give you a 26" draw if it's well designed and tillered. Adding static recurves will substatially reduce the effective working portion of the limbs (not sure by how much exactly) reducing the safe draw length even further. You could, of course make it a bend through the handle which would give you back 4" of safe draw length on the straight limbed design making 30" doable but still not with recurves. A good sinew backing on the bend through the handle, static recurve could possibly tip the balance back in your favor but I think that's a tall order for a second bow. I really recommend building some simpler designs to get the hang of tillering or at least make it longer like Joe said. Good luck.


I told him the exact thing on the board bow weylin, I think  he's got glass bow syndrome with what all he wants, lets see what he can do
Title: Re: Hophornbeam static recurve help
Post by: Pappy on August 20, 2013, 06:01:52 am
60 inches at 30 draw,to short as the others said,but you said you didn't care if it took a million so go for it.  :) I'm sure some will chime in and say they do it all the time, :-\ but for me it would have to be 64/66 at least for that draw. :)
   Pappy
Title: Re: Hophornbeam static recurve help
Post by: Blaflair2 on August 20, 2013, 10:32:16 am
I'm willing to make it longer. Like 64" sound good? It is gonna be a bendy handle. I've searched around an ppl were making a 56" static @ 29" draw. But I didn't bookmark it  :'( like I said I'd like help with the dimensions and stuff. That was just my idea but that's y I asked. I'm getting over my glassituss but I really want a static to hunt with. So I figure I gotta try. So would 2.5" wide be ok? Should I not go for a pyramid style? I'm gong to finish the bark and then start laying it out tonight. So if like to figure out the dimensions. I don't really want it that wide. But if everyone thinks its more doable then I will. Nothing is set in stone yet. Just looking for ideas that can help me. Thanks. In sure it won't work. But maybe it will.
Title: Re: Hophornbeam static recurve help
Post by: Pappy on August 20, 2013, 11:02:56 am
I would go at least 64 66 even better,1 3/4 to 1 7/8 inches at the fads to about mid limb,then tapper to the tip. :) You probably will have to steam or boil the tips to get a static bend in the Hickory,it will more than likely break or at least pop up a bad splinter if you try it with heat. As far as someone making one on pp or here for that matter,no one said it couldn't be done,just tough to do and especially for a beginner That's all we were saying. Trying to save you a little heart ache. :) If you go 2 or more  wide/that short in length and that long a draw for the weight you want it is going to be very very thin and if the tiller ant prefect it will fret,almost guaranteed ,again tough for a beginner. Now go have some fun. ;) :)
   Pappy
Title: Re: Hophornbeam static recurve help
Post by: Joec123able on August 20, 2013, 11:35:45 am
I'm willing to make it longer. Like 64" sound good? It is gonna be a bendy handle. I've searched around an ppl were making a 56" static @ 29" draw. But I didn't bookmark it  :'( like I said I'd like help with the dimensions and stuff. That was just my idea but that's y I asked. I'm getting over my glassituss but I really want a static to hunt with. So I figure I gotta try. So would 2.5" wide be ok? Should I not go for a pyramid style? I'm gong to finish the bark and then start laying it out tonight. So if like to figure out the dimensions. I don't really want it that wide. But if everyone thinks its more doable then I will. Nothing is set in stone yet. Just looking for ideas that can help me. Thanks. In sure it won't work. But maybe it will.

Yea and almost all of those short static recurves are Osage backed with sinew
Title: Re: Hophornbeam static recurve help
Post by: Newindian on August 20, 2013, 12:43:05 pm
You realize what recurves mostly do to a bow is make them look cool, they don't really have much of an advantage over other designs
Title: Re: Hophornbeam static recurve help
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on August 20, 2013, 12:46:59 pm
I cant agree with you on that Newindian. You'd have to either build, or shoot a true static to feel the difference. Are they faster? Not always. Is the early string tension much higher? You bet it is. Does that matter? It sure does. Shoot one and you will see the difference is more than appearance or coolness. I promise I wouldn't spend the time on them I do if coolness was the only factor. Its last on my list of pre-req's.
Title: Re: Hophornbeam static recurve help
Post by: Don Case on August 20, 2013, 01:11:18 pm
Is the idea behind recurves to effectively lengthen and shorten the bow as it is drawn and released? I'm thinking that would put more power at the end of the stroke. Kind of like a wheelie(puttuiee) bow.
Don
Title: Re: Hophornbeam static recurve help
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on August 20, 2013, 01:17:04 pm
It would seem that way Don.
Title: Re: Hophornbeam static recurve help
Post by: blackhawk on August 20, 2013, 02:01:54 pm
Not too mention the big difference in smoothness of draw and a lower string angle at full draw lessening stack from happening at full draw...which in my opinion equates to better accurate shooting if using proper form..trying to hold a bow with a higher string angle at anchor is tougher to hold steady for a second before your release...and a smoother more effortless draw to get to anchor makes it easier for me to maintain a steady pull to my anchor....unless shooting a straight 76" bow..lol..but you can get the same advantages by lessening the length and recurving the tips...but theres a lot of ways to got about achieving this in a bow other than recurving the tips as well...
Title: Re: Hophornbeam static recurve help
Post by: Blaflair2 on August 20, 2013, 02:13:59 pm
As I've read the static non working recurve a act more like a lever storing the compression in the limb. Once released the snap back faster giving a better and faster cast. I've read about 45# statics shooting almost 280fps. And yes, they look totally bad ass. It's the performance I'm after, in a sexy package. Lol I want to our brush nocks on it. I saw this one bow with them and could t shake it. I really do appreciate all your help. Also appreciate the criticism.

So 1 3/4" wide till mid limb and taper?
Working handle?
Anything else n e one wants to add?
Title: Re: Hophornbeam static recurve help
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on August 20, 2013, 02:18:14 pm
Sounds good to me, Id go at least 64" ntn.
Title: Re: Hophornbeam static recurve help
Post by: Blaflair2 on August 20, 2013, 03:51:49 pm
Ill make it 70" then recurve the tips. And then it'll be around there. Thanks for the help guys. I'm gonna go for it. Wish me luck. And ill post some pics along the journey so u can tell me how crappy it looks  ;)
Title: Re: Hophornbeam static recurve help
Post by: Ifrit617 on August 20, 2013, 07:55:46 pm
As I've read the static non working recurve a act more like a lever storing the compression in the limb. Once released the snap back faster giving a better and faster cast. I've read about 45# statics shooting almost 280fps. And yes, they look totally bad ass. It's the performance I'm after, in a sexy package. Lol I want to our brush nocks on it. I saw this one bow with them and could t shake it. I really do appreciate all your help. Also appreciate the criticism.

So 1 3/4" wide till mid limb and taper?
Working handle?
Anything else n e one wants to add?

Good luck getting it to shoot even 180 fps... Wherever you read 280 was complete BS.

Jon
Title: Re: Hophornbeam static recurve help
Post by: Joec123able on August 20, 2013, 08:00:13 pm
As I've read the static non working recurve a act more like a lever storing the compression in the limb. Once released the snap back faster giving a better and faster cast. I've read about 45# statics shooting almost 280fps. And yes, they look totally bad ass. It's the performance I'm after, in a sexy package. Lol I want to our brush nocks on it. I saw this one bow with them and could t shake it. I really do appreciate all your help. Also appreciate the criticism.

So 1 3/4" wide till mid limb and taper?
Working handle?
Anything else n e one wants to add?

Good luck getting it to shoot even 180 fps... Wherever you read 280 was complete BS.

Jon

Agreed on that That's compound speed right there
Title: Re: Hophornbeam static recurve help
Post by: Blaflair2 on August 20, 2013, 09:18:48 pm
So u guys may have talked me outta it. Lol. I don't wanna waste this stave. And now I'm second guessing myself. What would be an easier design to make? Looking for around same weight and draw as before. I'm my own worste enemy
Title: Re: Hophornbeam static recurve help
Post by: Danzn Bar on August 20, 2013, 10:28:17 pm
Definitely what Blackhawk and Pearl said, I've seen there bows and have made several static's by Pearl's design (quart can)  ;)  Thanks Pearl
DBar
Title: Re: Hophornbeam static recurve help
Post by: soy on August 20, 2013, 11:45:11 pm
you have enough in That hhb for a few Bows IMHO I would go for what you want for the experience but I would probably go for one 66 to 68 inches 8" handle fade section around one and three quarters inches Wide to mid limb taper to just shy of 1/2 inch on the tips...finish them both up and see which one you like better but you need to make sure its real dry or you end up with a bunch of set, too much width like Pappy said and you will crush the belly that's just my two cents worth good luck have fun post your progress ;)
Title: Re: Hophornbeam static recurve help
Post by: Blaflair2 on August 21, 2013, 12:08:41 am
Thanks a lot man. I'm gonna give it a whirl. Who bows what it's gonna be. Lol it'll come when I start seeing a bow. Lol Ill keep tad posted.
Title: Re: Hophornbeam static recurve help
Post by: paoliguy on August 21, 2013, 01:03:00 pm
I'm expert in this by any means but I do have a bunch of years at being hard headed (just ask my wife)! I think soy nailed it, do what you want to do, you won't be happy until you try. And if you fail just make sure you learned something from it. After I saw things break for myself and thought it through that's when the advice of these truly experienced guys started making sence to me. I wasted a lot of wood I guess but I learned a lot and actually I still had a good time doing it. Just my two cents....
Title: Re: Hophornbeam static recurve help
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on August 21, 2013, 01:09:47 pm
Ill never talk anybody out of any build. Im telling you from experience bending statics in a bow can be done by anybody. Steaming tips for an hour and crossing your fingers can be done by ANYBODY. I have some crack still. Its not experience that prevents cracks, its luck.
Title: Re: Hophornbeam static recurve help
Post by: BowEd on August 21, 2013, 01:13:48 pm
PD's made a bunch of em.I think if ya deflex the handle slightly,slightly reflex the limbs,with your 4" static I'd be confident to do it on a 62" bow.
Title: Re: Hophornbeam static recurve help
Post by: BowEd on August 21, 2013, 01:23:18 pm
Blaflair2.....I've got two ironwood staves that look exactly like yours width wise and degree of crown.I'm gonna start at 1and7/8" wide at fades to a little past midlimb then to 3/4" wide 6" from the tip.Trim the tips down width wise after you get it tillered.I'd put horn overlays on it too.Just my opinion.Leave a little more wood on the belly of your static before you bend it and round your corners well.You may know this already but I said it anyway.
Title: Re: Hophornbeam static recurve help
Post by: blackhawk on August 21, 2013, 01:27:38 pm
Well heck then...chop that baby down to 36" and prepare and glue 10" siyahs onto it,then put some horn on the belly,and sinew that bad boy drawing it into tip touching reflex....and good luck  >:D
Title: Re: Hophornbeam static recurve help
Post by: BowEd on August 21, 2013, 01:57:12 pm
LOL.....that's a whole different type animal there blackhawk and it'll take a century to make with my skill level at the moment.I'd like to see one of those a shootin for sure.It just might inspire me to try it.......LOL.Ironwood would be a good choice of wood in the limbs with spruce edge grain siyahs.A third each of wood core,sinew,and horn[maybe slightly thicker horn than core wood].