Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: rockrush69 on September 03, 2013, 03:16:02 pm
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Hey fellow bowyers . I am expecting my fist yew staves tomorrow and i want to build an elb... one of the yew staves isa practice stave ... meaning not premium quality . And the other is high quality ( littlle to no twist knots pins ect.) . I have never built a yew long bow and really neep advice as the staves were not cheap . Please can anyone not only give me pointers ... ( which are definatly welcome ) but also give me some dimensions to follow . Im 6ft tall . I would like to shoot for 65-70# @ 26" cause i read that yew will loose around 5# after a month or so and i reLly wNt a 60# bow in the end .HELP PLEASE
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I believe it is in TBBI there is a yew longbow how to. You might also check in the War Bow section. Those guys in Europe are the experts.
One suggestion...get a cheap stave of some sort to practice on. ELBs are different than flat bows so the more practice you have under your belt the better chance of success you'll have for both the top quality and not so good yew staves.
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I second Pats advice. John Strunk has a super easy layout to follow in the first TBB. Also, search the build alongs on this site. There are countless build alongs that will help a ton.
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Thanks guys . And yes . I ordered from medicine bow woods and . Dave sent me an extra yew stave for no extra charge for a practice stave .. and said if i go slow i may be able to get a bow out of it ... and i am downloading tbb vol. 1 as we speak .
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Ya know ... dave at medicine bow woods also threw in the vine maple for free to .... just a heads up . That co. Is really cheap if ur looking for good staves . I live in south west florida . So i aint really got sh#& for wood around here but cypress and live oak . Hickory grows in north flori da ... so i pretty much have to buy staves
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I'd respectfully suggest the ELB in TBB is a tad 'Americanised'.
I'm going to sound a bit of a longbow snob here, but if you are 6' tall I'd have thought you could manage a 28" draw.
Any how I'd certainly suggest tillering it out to 28", as if you make it a traditional ELB length but only draw 26" it will look seriously underdrawn and won't be working very hard. I'm just finishing a boo backed ELB for a fairly short guy who wants 26" draw and it's only 67.5" tip to tip which would look like a ladies boew on a 6' guy!
As a good working compromise maybe aim for 71" nock to nock.
I'd suggest you rough out at 33mm wide x 30 thick at the grip running parallel for about 6" - 8" either side of centre and then taper to 22mm thick x 20mm thick quare at the tip. This gives extra tip width that can be useful as ELBs can have a tendency to try and bend sideways on you. The extra width gives room for some sideways adjustment to counter this. This should give plenty of draw weight and wood to play with.
I strongly recommend gluing a temporary overlay on the tips that you can file a nock into it wiothout cutting into the side. again this preserves full tip width for any lateral adjustment.
Once roughed out and given a flex on the foor or long string, you'll doubtless need to take a bit off the thickness.
As a rule of thumb, I step down between 1.5 and 2mm for each 6" along the limb. I know this is mixing my units, but mm are V good for thinkness measurements.
It's easy to work it as a square section (obviously with sharp corners removed) until it's starting to really move, then start rounding the corners off the belly to give the slightly rounded shape . The final ELB shape will suddenly appear as the corners are rounded and the last 6" or so are blended into a slim circular section for the horn nocks (or overlays if you don't fancy trying the horn nock thing)
Hope this is of some use.
Del
BTW it won't loose 5# a month if you make it 6' tall and only draw 26" >:D the poor thing will be wondering when it's going to get a work out ;)
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mm are V good for thinkness measurements.
mm are excellent. ;D
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IMO live oak is a very, very good bow wood. Live oak is known for its strength. go cut some and practice making bows- nail your tiller.
then try an ELB...
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Listen to Del Snobo, I mean Del the Cat. ;) He is one of those Englishers and knows his ELB stuff. 8)
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Ok ok ok .... first of all . Im no begi ner .... i have built around 35 bows and around 20 of them have been sold . I am very good at both flat self bows and flat sinew backed bows . I just finished a 50# @ 28 " live oak bow and the week before that i made a hickory self bow backed with rattle snake skin . Pulls. 48@ 26 ... i know jow to tillef i have all tools nessasary . I have shaving horse . Tillering tree the works . Its not my first bow .... just my first EGLISH LONGBOW. And i want to do it right. As for my draw .... its 26" sorry . If you arent cool with that . And no offence but its kinda ignorant to make fun of me for ???? Draw legth lol . Funny actually . Not trying to argue by all means and the rest of everything you said was very helpfull . But there are no rules sayi g i have to tiller it to 28" in fact most of ed scotts bows cannot be drawn safely to 28" .... thats where my ancor point is and how i shoot . But thanks for the advice . But if anyone can actually give me what im asking for it would be great . Actually .... del the cat did . Was kinda a bully a bit ... but very knowledgable . Thank you my brother .
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And for what it is worth . I agree with everything del cat said ... exept that my draw is too short . He is very smart and he is right . Tbb s longbow is just a long flatbow . Or " american longbow " . And thats not what im looking to build . I got like ten of those already . Del cat . I will post pics as i build and i hope you will check me if theres a problem . I justwant to get this right. As to not upset the yew gods ... i have waited a long time and practiced alot on flat bows before ordering the yew stave . And i just dont wanna mess it up .
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I draw 26" too but if I made a standard length ELB I wouldn't be getting the full potential from the wood. You might try going shorter like Del suggested.
An ELB is not a flat bow or a sinew backed bow. The narrow limbs will bend laterally if you don't get things lined up right or if one side is off just a bit. If you feel confident enough with your abilities then go for it. We were just trying to help you out with a new adventure. Its funny how folks here like to help others. If you are offended by that we will jut keep our mouths shut. ;)
If you want to get the real poop on ELBs ask on the War Bow thread but be ready for replies that make Del look like a pussy cat.
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@ del cat ... one more question .... should i make it full compass or stiff handle or slightly bending handle but almost stiff . ( reason i ask this is i am using this bow for hunting and need it to shoot very smooth and on poi t ) also .. another reason i was thi king of making it slightly shorter of a bow with my gurlish 26" draw ... its easier to hunt with a shorter bow . But again it is a longbow . Any ways thank you and i will be building to your specs as they are the most logical given yet .... thNk you
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No offense taken . But one of you said to get my tiller right with oak then try a longbow. I was clearly letti g them know i have already built a ton of flatbows and know how to tiller .... but i guess maybe he ment build a elb from live oak ?? ... and so far . Del cat is really the only one who has actually given me dimensions ... which is what i was asking for i. The first place .... i will do a complete build along on youtube for this yew elb as i cannot find one anywhare online .... thanks for all the help . (Even though it seems as if some butholes are slightly puckered ) :)
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Welcome to primitive archer.....making a yew elb cross section bow is a pleasure to build....its actually very simple and should come natural to do because wood tools like to be used in that fashion ...like del says...just be careful with your side to side thickness and to keep the peak of the belly down the center....I swear these bows tiller themselves..for me at least ;) ...and I'd go with more of a Victorian style tiller since your wanting it for a lower weight(for an elb) and wanting to use it for more accurate shooting/hunting...
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There's no real right or wrong with an ELB regarding stiff handle or full compass.
Personally I tend to go full compass, but the grip tends to be slightly stiffer anyhow. If you have a thickness taper going pretty much even from a couple of inches from the centre it will always be slightly stiffer there. Maybe I let it swell up a tad towards the grip but I don't deliberately put in those Victorian dips from grip to limb. (With spliced billets I'd always allow a swell at the grip... and they still explode (bwaaaahhhh :'( )
Regarding draw length, I din't mean to take the mickey. It's more a matterof style IMO.
From the pics I've seen on here you guys that side of the pond seem to favour more of a draw to the chin/corner of the mouth? Maybe it's much better for hunting (us wooses in the UK ain't allowed to hunt else nanny gets cross and makes us sit on the naughty step :'( ).
I was just suggesting tillering to 28" would let you experiment with a longer draw anchoring to the back of the jaw if you fancied it.
A longbow's long limbs have a lot of inertia and a longer draw helps overcome that.
I mean... I ain't going to expect Rich to pull one of his shorties to 28" LOL ;D
I probably draw 27" until I've warmed up, then 28" until I get tired (which is 6 shots later ;) ) then back to 27". I've also tried the full medieval 32" draw and it is really weird, but the eye, brain and body soon adapt and I started hitting the target.
The difference between say 60# @28" and 60# @ 32" is an extra 20% power :o.
No offense was intended :-[. And you are quite right there's no rules, laws or great reason to tiller it to 28" I just thought once you had it in your hand you might fancy opening up and letting rip.... heck, tiller the sucker to 32" ;)
I couldn't resist this teaser pic of a full compass bow at 32" draw... it's only about 55#, but that loooong draw gives it time to build up the speed and power. No good for huntin' I expect! It's prob' one of my prettiest, if you hold a CD up to the pic it's damn near perfect arc of a circle 8)
Del
(scampers away to hide in secret cat nest)
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Oh, and BTW... you really gotta shave your head to shoot an ELB ;D ::) ;)
Del
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the demin. for h hills old alb center section just like del 1 1/4" sq. and straight taper to 1/2" sides and belly, round it off and tiller from there, with that short draw i'd only go like68" ttt so it works a little
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Not hijacking here, but...THANKS DEL! mm is easier to measure for a dummy like me and I am still working on a sassafras ELB that is close enough to take advantage of the dimensions you provided. Looking forward to your yew elb rrush.
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Awsome advice guys ... keep it coming . I am like neo in the matrix right now im plugged in and you guys are filling me with knowlege lol
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Welcome to primitive archer.....making a yew elb cross section bow is a pleasure to build....its actually very simple and should come natural to do because wood tools like to be used in that fashion
Yeah, scrappers were definitely made for elb's, :).
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I couldn't resist this teaser pic of a full compass bow at 32" draw... it's only about 55#, but that loooong draw gives it time to build up the speed and power. No good for huntin' I expect! It's prob' one of my prettiest, if you hold a CD up to the pic it's damn near perfect arc of a circle 8)
Del
(scampers away to hide in secret cat nest)
Yes, that is definitely a nice one!
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Tiller it to 60 @ 26 and it should weigh 15.75 oz at 71 ntn.
The width will be what it will be.....no fixed dimensions!
Go with Del's measurements for the rough out and then, like you said, you know how to tiller. Just make it weigh close to the 15 3/4 ozs mentioned.
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I finiahed it !!!! http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oG7cXULyjIo
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You could probably draw it a fair bit further >:D
Del
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I would suggest that you use a back stop behind your target. One bad release could send that rrow into someone, their house or car.
Please be safe!